Women In the Priesthood

  • Thread starter Thread starter Juxtaposer
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
It has been taught since the beginning that men are the priests. This is a perfect example of Sacred Tradition. Even if the Holy Father did not make this Infalliable Statement it wouldn’t matter. It would still be the Tradition (with a capital T) of the Church.

If the Church ever says that a woman can be ordained then we can KNOW that Catholicism is wrong. That would be the time to run to the Orthodox Church.

But, luckily for us Jesus gave us this sweet little gift of the Holy Spirit. We’ll be just fine here onboard the Barque(sp?) of Peter.

-PioMagnus
 
40.png
JimG:
Yes. Please see this reply from “Ask An Apologist.”
Click to expand...
Thank you, I’m sure you know I was asking for the sake of response to this thread since I embrace the Church teaching.

It appears that the teaching is infallible in the ordinary sense as opposed to ex Cathedra. Is this true? I am not trying to be fecetious nor raise a doubt about it. Rather, I am still trying to understand infallibility in general and I see this teaching as good example to help me to understand the “modes” of infallibility. I don’t even know if I am referring to it properly.

Greg
 
Yes, I believe it would be characterized as an infallible teaching of the ordinary magisterium. But this might be better answered by one of the staff apologists on the “Ask an Apologist” forum.
 
Many constantly question this teaching on women being priests. It has been infallibly defined by the Holy Father that the Church does not have the authority to ordain women as priests. This should be the end of it, but of course, it’s not. People need to understand why.

It has to do with many things.
It has to with the role God gave to men and women - see Genesis and the creation stories. We cannot look at the roles of men and women through the eyes of a modernist society such as ours. God placed Adam as the “head” of Eve (or of the family), to love and protect her, to care for her. She was his companion, his “compliment”, sexual and otherwise. Neither were frully complete without the other - just as God had intended.

It also has to do with the fact that Christ was a man. The priest is a “stand-in” for Christ. He is the groom to His Bride, the Church. You can’t have a women as Christ and be the groom to the Church - there’s something “hinky” about that - right? smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_6_4.gif

When you start messing with how God set things up, you end up messing up more than just that one thing you wanted to change. You start mixing up a bunch of theology on the roles of men and women, marriage, the relationship of Christ with His Church, etc…! The church starts looking a little homosexual! Don’t think that’s how God intended for things to progress???

God knows better than anyone what we need to be happy. If we would just listen to Him and stop trying to out-think Him! Our world would be so much better off! Of course, children never learn to listen to their parents when they try to save them some anguish - they have to learn on their own, don’t they? In the end, though, the child will come back and say “You were right! I’ll do it your way!”
 
40.png
DianJo:
When you start messing with how God set things up, you end up messing up more than just that one thing you wanted to change.
Click to expand...
Interesting post! You stated this in many ways better than I have seen it explained before.
 
People,

Paul stands firmly on this subject. Whether or not the Pope chooses for it to be or not.
 
40.png
JimG:
Yes, I believe it would be characterized as an infallible teaching of the ordinary magisterium. But this might be better answered by one of the staff apologists on the “Ask an Apologist” forum.
Click to expand...
Well based on the quote I posted from Ordinatio Sacerdotalis (post #13), The Pope is speaking from his official position as head of the Church (condition 1), and is most definitely binding all the faithful (condition 3). If ordination is a matter of faith or morals (I think it is), then condition 2 is also met. As a result I would consider this an *ex cathedra *pronouncement, and thus an excercise of extra-ordinary infallibility.
 
40.png
mtr01:
Well based on the quote I posted from Ordinatio Sacerdotalis (post #13), The Pope is speaking from his official position as head of the Church (condition 1), and is most definitely binding all the faithful (condition 3). If ordination is a matter of faith or morals (I think it is), then condition 2 is also met. As a result I would consider this an *ex cathedra *pronouncement, and thus an excercise of extra-ordinary infallibility.
Click to expand...
I guess you are right. There are some who seem to want to have a requirement that the Pope must specifically state that a teaching is infallible. But my understanding has always been as you state: if he is speaking to the whole church on a matter of faith of morals it seems to me that infallibility comes into play.
 
40.png
DianJo:
Many constantly question this teaching on women being priests. It has been infallibly defined by the Holy Father that the Church does not have the authority to ordain women as priests. This should be the end of it, but of course, it’s not. People need to understand why.

It has to do with many things.
It has to with the role God gave to men and women - see Genesis and the creation stories. We cannot look at the roles of men and women through the eyes of a modernist society such as ours. God placed Adam as the “head” of Eve (or of the family), to love and protect her, to care for her. She was his companion, his “compliment”, sexual and otherwise. Neither were frully complete without the other - just as God had intended.

It also has to do with the fact that Christ was a man. The priest is a “stand-in” for Christ. He is the groom to His Bride, the Church. You can’t have a women as Christ and be the groom to the Church - there’s something “hinky” about that - right? smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_6_4.gif

When you start messing with how God set things up, you end up messing up more than just that one thing you wanted to change. You start mixing up a bunch of theology on the roles of men and women, marriage, the relationship of Christ with His Church, etc…! The church starts looking a little homosexual! Don’t think that’s how God intended for things to progress???

God knows better than anyone what we need to be happy. If we would just listen to Him and stop trying to out-think Him! Our world would be so much better off! Of course, children never learn to listen to their parents when they try to save them some anguish - they have to learn on their own, don’t they? In the end, though, the child will come back and say “You were right! I’ll do it your way!”
Click to expand...
Well, you are correct, but if I may elaborate a little. Society defines the roles of man as hunter, fisherman, athletic…these are roles that woman can fill as well. Similarly, society defines the roles of woman as homemaker, seamstress, nurse…these are roles that men can fill as well. The Church see men and women differently in that there are certain roles that men can fill that women cannot and vice versa. Men can be two things that women cannot…a husband and father. Likewise, women have 3 roles that men cannot fill…wife, mother, and suckling an infant at her breast. By virtue of this fact it can be seen that women cannot be priests because the priest is “Father” of his parish, and as he functions in persona Christi he is the “husband” of his Church parish. This is the simplest explanation I have ever come across, and the one that makes the most sense. Simply put, a woman cannot be a priest any more than she can be a father or a husband.
 
Now let’s change things up a little bit. All of the main leadership positions in the Church share something in common; they must all be filled by men. What do you do with a female with leadership skills in the Catholic Church?
 
kepha1 said:
Gender Roles, Male Priests, Equality, and Feminism

ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ116.HTM

I can’t say it better than Dave Armstrong
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting this. I have an appointment to try and reconcile the differences between Protestants and Catholics tomorrow. This site has helped me much in my preparation! Much appreciation! :tiphat:
 
40.png
Juxtaposer:
Now let’s change things up a little bit. All of the main leadership positions in the Church share something in common; they must all be filled by men. What do you do with a female with leadership skills in the Catholic Church?
Click to expand...
Define “main leadership roles.”
 
To those who say, “women can be priests,” I say, “prove it.” What Biblical doctrine, or Ecumenical Council, or Papal Decree can you cite to justify your position? Or is this just your own personal opinion based on your own private interpretation of “fairness?”

Do you realize the consequences if we “ordain” women, but women actually do not have Sacramental capacity for Holy Orders? Remember, it is not up to Church or Pope or Bishop to define what a Sacrament is – the Sacraments were instituted by Jesus Christ and no person on earth may change them – now or ever!

What are the consequences of invalid ordination of women? Every single “Mass” she said would be invalid. Those who came to her for “Confession” would leave with their sins fully intact. Those whose marriages she blessed could not be joined in Sacramental marital union (and would be essentially living in adultery). Were she elevated to “bishop,” every “Ordination” she performed would be invalid (whether the Candidate were male or female) – and the corruption would spread.

So what authority do you cite to prove BEYOND ALL DOUBT that ordination of women is valid? Because, if it isn’t, the consequences are horrific.

Without a CLEAR mandate from Jesus Christ or Holy Mother Church, we dare not tamper with something as fundamentally important as Holy Orders!
 
40.png
Juxtaposer:
Now let’s change things up a little bit. All of the main leadership positions in the Church share something in common; they must all be filled by men. What do you do with a female with leadership skills in the Catholic Church?
Click to expand...
Women with leadership skills use them in ways appropriate to their God-given vocation, which does not include being ordained. Anyone who thinks that the Church could ever have functioned with only ordained men handling the Church’s affairs needs to cash a reality check.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
women with leadership skills are highly visible in administrative roles in almost every diocese, especially where there is a shortage of priests to fill those positions. they are heads of departments of family life, Catholic schools, catechetics, Catholic charities, and serve in many other capacities. the trouble comes when they are placed, unjustly and misguidedly in my opinion, in pastoral roles that properly belong to the priest such as chaplain or pastoral administrator. As a reminder to all who seek or even covet “leadership” roles in the Church, Christ defined leadership as service when he washed the feet of the apostles.

As another reminder, if there is a shortage of priests to fill administrative, teaching and pastoral leadership positions, it is because there are men out there who have ignored or abandoned a call to this vocation from God.
 
40.png
Juxtaposer:
Pope, cardinal, bishop, priest.
Click to expand...
I knew you were going to say that instead of the CEO of Catholic Charities. :rolleyes: (Whether that is a woman, I do not know.) The roles you listed are ordained ministerial roles so they can not be filled by women. For other leadership roles, I suggest you see the above posts.
 
There is a profound, contemplative, ontological discussion of the relationship between gender and priesthood in *The Theology of the Body *by JP2. (That book is a little intense for most people – I’m pretty smart and theologically educated but had to do frequent re-takes – but a bright guy like Jux can handle it.)

Women in leadership? Many women are now in leadership and ministerial roles. Liturgical coordinators, parish administrators, members of diocesan commissions, diocesan canon lawyers, and such. The Pope has appointed women to theological faculties in Rome and to other advisory boards. They are also involved in evangelical ministries and important pro-life ministries. The Holy Spirit is calling women (and laymen in general) to a vast and exciting field of opportunities.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top