Women in Traditional Parishes

[Denise1957]

I recently started attending a very traditional parish.

Of course, I do not believe women should be priests, but I noticed there were no:

Women lectors, not even in prayer services outside of mass.
Women who lead the praying of the rosary
Women who pass around the collection baskets.
Women ushers

So I asked about it and I was told, yeah this is a traditional parish. Women are sort of in the background, but it wasn’t said in a sarcastic way.

I didn’t think collecting the offering was a male/female thing.

Is this the way it is in traditional parishes like FSSP/SPPX parishes or any parishes that mostly celebrate the EF?

Thanks.

Maybe this has already been mentioned, but at our Latin Mass, the choir at High Mass (I think it’s called a sung Mass) sings some of the readings, such as the Indroit and Alleluia. They also sing the Credo and Kyrie. Since women are in the choir, they sing these, too. So although they are not at the altar, they do actively participate in this way. The faithful in the pew also sing the second or sometimes third lines in the Credo.

However, its only men at our parish who lead the Rosary, take up collections, and usher. It doesn’t bother me at all that only men do this. Women are honored in other ways, such as Our Lady in the Rosary, and praying the Hail Mary after low Mass, and of course there are feast days which honor many women saints.

 

[zab]

Why must we jump to some conclusion because we see only men leading the rosary or being ushers? Just because some parishes have only men doing these duties doesn’t mean that they have some rule that forbids women to do so. This kind of reminds me of the “My doctor she…” commercials. But after more than a decade of these, I think we get the point and I’m a little tired of it. There is nothing wrong with referring to a doctor as “he”.

 

[UnusVeritas]

I can’t say about the FSSP (I’ve never attended with them) but it is true with the SSPX, and other Sedevacantist groups. Occasionally you will see a woman leading the Rosary, but that’s about as far as it goes. Other than that, women don’t do a whole lot. It’s reserved for the men.

 

[TrueLight]

Why must we jump to some conclusion because we see only men leading the rosary or being ushers? Just because some parishes have only men doing these duties doesn’t mean that they have some rule that forbids women to do so. This kind of reminds me of the “My doctor she…” commercials. But after more than a decade of these, I think we get the point and I’m a little tired of it. There is nothing wrong with referring to a doctor as “he”.

What you should be tired of is yourself.

I guess what you don’t get is the fact that I am asking specifically to find out whether it is this one parish or whether it is common to most traditional parishes. How am I supposed to know the difference when the parishioner told me it’s a traditional thing?

So next time you want to rant at a post, read it first, then rant.

 

[the_phoenix]

I would like to be an active part of any parish, so I was just looking at options.

Good to see you’re looking into how you can serve your parish. Are there any groups that help the poor? Visit the homebound or hospitals or nursing homes? Provide rides to Mass for the elderly without transportation? Bible study? Pro-life? Prayer group? Adoration?

 

[zab]

What you should be tired of is yourself.

I guess what you don’t get is the fact that I am asking specifically to find out whether it is this one parish or whether it is common to most traditional parishes. How am I supposed to know the difference when the parishioner told me it’s a traditional thing?

So next time you want to rant at a post, read it first, then rant.

I certainly wasn’t attacking anything you posted.

 

[TrueLight]

I certainly wasn’t attacking anything you posted.

Alright. So what are you tired of?

 

[zab]

Alright. So what are you tired of?

I’m tired of decades of “My doctor, she…”

 

[TrueLight]

I’m tired of decades of “My doctor, she…”

I don’t understand what you’re saying, but if I was wrong in thinking you were addressing me, I apologize.

 

[LemonAndLime]

I’m tired of decades of “My doctor, she…”

Why?

 

[TrueLight]

Good to see you’re looking into how you can serve your parish. Are there any groups that help the poor? Visit the homebound or hospitals or nursing homes? Provide rides to Mass for the elderly without transportation? Bible study? Pro-life? Prayer group? Adoration?

I actually would love to visit the homebound and nursing homes.

Traditionally, I have always sung in choirs and I still do, but for some reason I don’t feel led to do that in the CC. Maybe it’s because at this point, I need to be in the congregation, absorbing everything with no distractions.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

But she served Christ at the cross, which was the real sacrifice.

If she was good enough to do that, I believe that girls are good enough to serve at the sacrifice of the Mass.

This is the problem with current secular-influenced understanding of priesthood as well. It is not a question of girls being good enough, but whether they *should *serve at the altar or not. Serving at the altar is understood as being closely connected to the priesthood: boys and young men getting a taste of it, getting an opportunity for discerning a vocation. And when girls get involved boys don’t want to do it. Very sad and not fair to the girls but that’s what happens. So even when the girls can serve at the NO perhaps it is still wise to let the boys do it. When women serve at the altar it is a flirtation with the idea of women priests, whether we want to admit it or not. Getting rid of such secular ideologies that present everything in terms of rights is important to understand why the church does things in a certain way.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

.

Perhaps that would be a good place to start. You can find a place where your talents are well put to use later on. I’m sure there will be opportunity for that. Even if that doesn’t happen in your parish you could find a catholic organisation that you could get involved with. Before I had my baby I was involved with St. Vincent de Paul society that helps the poor. They did things all over the city and had a lot going on. I hope to get back to that one day.

 

[LemonAndLime]

This is the problem with current secular-influenced understanding of priesthood as well. It is not a question of girls being good enough, but whether they *should *serve at the altar or not. Serving at the altar is understood as being closely connected to the priesthood: boys and young men getting a taste of it, getting an opportunity for discerning a vocation. And when girls get involved boys don’t want to do it. Very sad and not fair to the girls but that’s what happens. So even when the girls can serve at the NO perhaps it is still wise to let the boys do it. When women serve at the altar it is a flirtation with the idea of women priests, whether we want to admit it or not. Getting rid of such secular ideologies that present everything in terms of rights is important to understand why the church does things in a certain way.

An altar-server is not a Priest, and there is no guarantee that male altar-servers will become Priests afterwards. I think the belief that altar-servers, in doing their duty, MIGHT consider being the Priesthood is a poor reason to stop girl altar-servers. It just sounds desperate. It’s like discouraging people with poor leadership skills from joining a company in case they want to be the Manager. They can’t, so why be afraid of them taking part in case they’ll stop others?

At my parish, it’s about 50/50. So far, the arguments have been “we’'ll it’s what we’ve always done” and “the more boys, the greater the chance one of them might be a Priest”. I don’t think that’s a good enough reason to exclude girls. Unless I’m missing something?

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

At my parish, it’s about 50/50. So far, the arguments have been “we’'ll it’s what we’ve always done” and “the more boys, the greater the chance one of them might be a Priest”. I don’t think that’s a good enough reason to exclude girls. Unless I’m missing something?

Maybe.
Women serving at the altar is a new phenomenon and many argue that since liturgical experimenthing has been going on the priesthood went into a crisis.
I’ve been going to TLM for the last two years. We are a smallish group, about 50 people show up on average. In september last year we had 3 young men enter seminary. All 3 were altar servers prior to that. There were also 2 vocations to religious life within the last 5 years. Figures show that traditional parishes have more vocations than more liberal, ‘trendy’ parishes and my case here is no exception. You are correct that there is no guarantee that boys serving at the altar will automatically lead to more vocations, but we can see that there is a correlation here.

 

[Will_S]

An altar-server is not a Priest, and there is no guarantee that male altar-servers will become Priests afterwards. I think the belief that altar-servers, in doing their duty, MIGHT consider being the Priesthood is a poor reason to stop girl altar-servers. It just sounds desperate.

First, you keep talking about the Blessed Virgin Mary “serving” at the foot of the cross. That is simply wrong. She was not an altar server. She was present at the sacrifice, in exactly the same way that all of those on the benches out of the sanctuary at Mass are present at the sacrifice. So please put that claim to bed.

Second, altar service by females was explicitly banned long, long ago. It was reintroduced after the 2nd Vatican Council by renegade priests and/or liturgists who defiantly disobeyed the laws of the Church to further a secularist-feminist agenda. It was then permitted (reluctantly) by the Holy See when the question was raised to avoid an outcry.

All practices introduced disobediently contrary to the traditions and long-standing practice of the Church should be banned as soon as possible.

 

[LemonAndLime]

Maybe.
Women serving at the altar is a new phenomenon and many argue that since liturgical experimenthing has been going on the priesthood went into a crisis.
I’ve been going to TLM for the last two years. We are a smallish group, about 50 people show up on average. In september last year we had 3 young men enter seminary. All 3 were altar servers prior to that. There were also 2 vocations to religious life within the last 5 years. Figures show that traditional parishes have more vocations than more liberal, ‘trendy’ parishes and my case here is no exception. You are correct that there is no guarantee that boys serving at the altar will automatically lead to more vocations, but we can see that there is a correlation here.

But you must account for other factors too. If they go to a TLM mass, they’re perhaps more likely to have traditional parents who would encourage them to think about the Priesthood, or have a greater understanding of traditional vocations for men.

I think you can’t blame women having greater inclusion/Vatican II for the decrease in vocation since the 1960/70s. The entire world outside of the Church has changed in that time too, you know. And boys are being raised in that world. The world has become less centred on religion. All of those things count too.

I repeat - the only reasons still are “we believe the only reason we have less Priests is because there are girls as altar servers, and that is obviously the only way we can encourage boys to aspire to be Priests” and “we’ve always done it that way”.

Our Lady did serve Christ on the cross by being a witness. Altar servers witness the sacrifice at the cross but they do play a part, yet not all of them. For some, it’s just holding a candle.

 

[Corki]

I repeat - the only reasons still are “we believe the only reason we have less Priests is because there are girls as altar servers, and that is obviously the only way we can encourage boys to aspire to be Priests” and “we’ve always done it that way”.

In a traditional parish, the topic of this thread, how things have always been done is a powerful and important reason. Change for change’s sake is not generally in keeping with the character of a traditional parish.

And while all boys that serve are not going to explore a vocation to the priesthood, surveys in the past have indicated that almost all seminarians spent time as altar servers. So, it is important that even in less traditional parishes, the use of girl servers doesn’t have the effect of discouraging boys from coming forward.

 

[LemonAndLime]

In a traditional parish, the topic of this thread, how things have always been done is a powerful and important reason. Change for change’s sake is not generally in keeping with the character of a traditional parish.

And while all boys that serve are not going to explore a vocation to the priesthood, surveys in the past have indicated that almost all seminarians spent time as altar servers. So, it is important that even in less traditional parishes, the use of girl servers doesn’t have the effect of discouraging boys from coming forward.

I understand the importance of keeping traditions and encouraging boys to have an active role in the Church to encourage vocation to a Priesthood.

Myself, if there was a TLM near me, I would choose to go to that instead of an NO mass. I veil at NO because I believe it’s appropriate for me as a woman to do so. I’m fairly traditional for a British convert. Yet still, I believe girls should still be altar servers.

 

[Cider]

I can’t say about the FSSP (I’ve never attended with them) but it is true with the SSPX, and other Sedevacantist groups. Occasionally you will see a woman leading the Rosary, but that’s about as far as it goes. Other than that, women don’t do a whole lot. It’s reserved for the men.

Oh just quit it all ready, the SSPX are not Sede. Since you claim to be an ex Sede, I’m guessing you already know that.