Women: is it important to marry a man who can be bread-winner?

[anna1978]

OP: I’m in Britain, and we’ve lived in Somerset and now in Cumbria and I stopped working when I was pregnant with my eldest daughter and haven’t worked for 6 years…My husband is on low pay ( we average 12.000,- GBP before tax!) and if it wasn’t for tax-breaks for low-income families (Child Benefits, Child Tax Credits and Working Tax Credits) we would not be able to make ends meet…as it is we have the cheapest dial-up Tesco internet, buy clothes and shoes in Woolworths or in the Sales, and I get quite a lot of hand-me-downs from friends. Our food-shooping is done at LIdl’s, Netto and Aldi and if we shop at Tesco’s or Asda’s it’s ‘economy range’ and ‘smart price’ ALL THE WAY! I bulk up our meals with cheap beans, millet, pearl barley etc.

To US it’s worth the sacrifice because it means I can stay at home and raise my own children, instead of having to pay others to do it for me…This is our choice and we’re willing to scrimp and save to keep it possible as long as possible for me to stay at home. It’s about priorities…most of my clothes are 10 years old, I buy maybe 2 or 3 new items a year…I cut my own hair, and also my husband’s and the children’s, anything to save money! Because for us it is important that the children have a mother at home.

However…I won’t go as far as to say (as you did in your poll) that you need to be a SAHM to have a good Catholic marriage, if my husband fell ill and couldn’t work, I WOULD go out to work! The arrangement is not set in stone!

 

[Guitar]

Also, I almost put it IS essential, because DH would never allow me to be the breadwinner unless he was physically unable to.

I really and truly mean absolutely no criticism whatsoever of anybody at all when I say this, I’m just noting how much room for difference there is amongst us all and yet we’re all still thoroughly Catholic - for me, personally, if a man said “I will never allow you to be the breadwinner unless I am physically unable” it would have been an on-the-spot dealbreaker.

Ain’t it amazing how different we all are?

 

[Just_wondering]

I really and truly mean absolutely no criticism whatsoever of anybody at all when I say this, I’m just noting how much room for difference there is amongst us all and yet we’re all still thoroughly Catholic - for me, personally, if a man said “I will never allow you to be the breadwinner unless I am physically unable” it would have been an on-the-spot dealbreaker.

Ain’t it amazing how different we all are?

Funny, isn’t it? I originally was convinced that I’d never marry someone who thought that women belonged at home. My boyfriend doesn’t think that, exactly, but he is like lotusblossom’s DH - he wouldn’t allow me to be the sole breadwinner if there was a viable alternative. I surprised myself by agreeing with him. We’ve both known a handful of men who have been content to sit on their delicate heinies with a beer in one hand and a remote in the other, with a baby in a stinking diaper on the floor nearby, while their wives worked outside the home to support the family.

I do NOT believe that the majority of SAHDs are like this, but the few irresponsible husbands I’ve known have been enough to convince me that I prefer the other end of the spectrum. And honestly, my boyfriend and I have had a serious chat about how he would feel if I do end up being the primary breadwinner in the family, and it wouldn’t make him feel good. He’d accept it if it was necessary, but he would feel emasculated if he wasn’t supporting the family financially. It doesn’t help that he’s from a poor country and his friends tease him that I’m his meal ticket.

 

[3GirlsRUs]

Funny, isn’t it? I originally was convinced that I’d never marry someone who thought that women belonged at home. My boyfriend doesn’t think that, exactly, but he is like lotusblossom’s DH - he wouldn’t allow me to be the sole breadwinner if there was a viable alternative. I surprised myself by agreeing with him. We’ve both known a handful of men who have been content to sit on their delicate heinies with a beer in one hand and a remote in the other, with a baby in a stinking diaper on the floor nearby, while their wives worked outside the home to support the family.

I do NOT believe that the majority of SAHDs are like this, but the few irresponsible husbands I’ve known have been enough to convince me that I prefer the other end of the spectrum.

Why bring it up, if this isn’t what you think? That’s kind of a rude thing to say. My DH worked hard while being a SAHD. I was home on a day off once while DD#1 was almost 2. I watched/overheard my DH play THE SAME GAME, with THE SAME SEQUENCE, OVER and OVER and OVER with her and he had the SAME ENTHUSIASM for it every single time. My DD was in heaven playing her game and I thought…Ugh, I would have been SO Over that game after the first or second time.

So, really…some men have a better temperament for that sort of thing than women (or at least THIS woman.) Now, I have mellowed a bit having more children and I find I play with them much more easier now than I did then…but I still prefer my DH’s style…he’s so nurturing of their creativity in their play.

Your post was just indicative of some of the horrible stereo-typing of men that goes on when there are some really great Catholic Men who are great Dad’s and don’t do at all what you describe.

Of course you said “I don’t think ALL” are that way…but that just is to cover yourself for saying such a thing at all…

 

[savienu]

Why bring it up, if this isn’t what you think? That’s kind of a rude thing to say. My DH worked hard while being a SAHD. I was home on a day off once while DD#1 was almost 2. I watched/overheard my DH play THE SAME GAME, with THE SAME SEQUENCE, OVER and OVER and OVER with her and he had the SAME ENTHUSIASM for it every single time. My DD was in heaven playing her game and I thought…Ugh, I would have been SO Over that game after the first or second time.

So, really…some men have a better temperament for that sort of thing than women (or at least THIS woman.) Now, I have mellowed a bit having more children and I find I play with them much more easier now than I did then…but I still prefer my DH’s style…he’s so nurturing of their creativity in their play.

Your post was just indicative of some of the horrible stereo-typing of men that goes on when there are some really great Catholic Men who are great Dad’s and don’t do at all what you describe.

Of course you said “I don’t think ALL” are that way…but that just is to cover yourself for saying such a thing at all…

My DH is a great SAHD, too. However, I would still tend to agree with her post. I don’t think it’s common for MOST men in this society. But, that doesn’t take away from the absolutely WONDERFUL men that ARE out there doing that today.

 

[Just_wondering]

Why bring it up, if this isn’t what you think? That’s kind of a rude thing to say.

Your post was just indicative of some of the horrible stereo-typing of men that goes on when there are some really great Catholic Men who are great Dad’s and don’t do at all what you describe.

Of course you said “I don’t think ALL” are that way…but that just is to cover yourself for saying such a thing at all…

I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you or look down on stay at home dads. There are some really great stay at home dads out there.

I don’t think I really expressed what I wanted to say the right way at all. I really respect the kind of men who can be devoted fathers and raise their children, especially with the way people stereotype and look down on men who aren’t the breadwinners. I don’t want to demean those men at all. They’re great! I know my boyfriend could be that kind of dad - he has the temperament for it. However, due to those stereotypes, and his culture, he doesn’t want to consider it. He’s from the Philippines, where a man who doesn’t financially provide for his family is looked down on pretty seriously. It’s the man’s JOB in his culture. SAHDs don’t really exist there - the kind of men who stay home in the Philippines are the kind who can’t hold down a job. Based on that cultural expectation, he really doesn’t want to consider staying home with the kids. And I respect that, even though it’s not the culture I was raised with.

I’m sorry again that I offended you. I hope that clears it up a bit, and that I haven’t put my foot any farther into my mouth.

 

[lotusblossom]

I really and truly mean absolutely no criticism whatsoever of anybody at all when I say this, I’m just noting how much room for difference there is amongst us all and yet we’re all still thoroughly Catholic - for me, personally, if a man said “I will never allow you to be the breadwinner unless I am physically unable” it would have been an on-the-spot dealbreaker.

Ain’t it amazing how different we all are?

Lol! Okay, I just wanted to clarify here - and not because I feel this is criticism, but because I realize how umm…dominating I made my DH sound . My DH would let me work if that’s what I really wanted to do. In fact, before we found out we were expecting our second, the plan was for me to go back to work to help out with the income. BUT for him to stay at home while I work (which would probably be beneficial financially since I make more in my field than he does) would really be a difficult thing for him to do and deal with. He would not feel like he is being a good husband and father if he were not providing financially for us and allowing me to stay at home with our children. Plus, being at home is where I am most at peace and feel like I’m fulfilling my vocation. I was really restless in the workplace and hated it actually - although I had a really bad job (that paid really well) and a long commute while pregnant, so that may have attributed to my attitude. But I saw all my friends, mostly single, who were going into the workplace and so excited about what they were doing and so satisfied in their jobs and it made me feel horrible about my own. Then, I became a mother and raising my son has been the best thing - I knew this is where God called me to. Anyway, I just wanted to show that on both sides this was agreeable .

BUT I’d also like to say that I don’t think men are any less good husbands and fathers if they are the SAHD. I know a few families who work this way and it works really well for them - I just know it wouldn’t here.

 

[3GirlsRUs]

I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you or look down on stay at home dads. There are some really great stay at home dads out there.

I don’t think I really expressed what I wanted to say the right way at all. I really respect the kind of men who can be devoted fathers and raise their children, especially with the way people stereotype and look down on men who aren’t the breadwinners. I don’t want to demean those men at all. They’re great! I know my boyfriend could be that kind of dad - he has the temperament for it. However, due to those stereotypes, and his culture, he doesn’t want to consider it. He’s from the Philippines, where a man who doesn’t financially provide for his family is looked down on pretty seriously. It’s the man’s JOB in his culture. SAHDs don’t really exist there - the kind of men who stay home in the Philippines are the kind who can’t hold down a job. Based on that cultural expectation, he really doesn’t want to consider staying home with the kids. And I respect that, even though it’s not the culture I was raised with.

I’m sorry again that I offended you. I hope that clears it up a bit, and that I haven’t put my foot any farther into my mouth.

I think I overreacted a bit. But it’s that stereotype people always brought up to me when I would mention my DH being a SAHD when he was. And it always kind of burns me a bit. No worries…

 

[whatevergirl]

Okay, this is really starting to bother me, as I’ve seen this here and in several other threads on this forum. The common theme I’m seeing here is that it is fine for the woman to work - IF it is absolutely financially necessary. But what if it isn’t a dire financial need? What if I just really love my work and have a passion for my career? Does that make me a bad Catholic?

I’ve talked about this with my FI and he would be fine being a stay-at-home dad. He is perfectly capable of working and has a great job, but he feels less strongly about his career and has less ambition than I do. However, my career will require some years of advanced study and we will need him to keep working for a while until I get well established. I don’t think we have serious enough reasons to postpone pregnancy for 5+ years. I know I will probably have to put my children in daycare and I already feel guilty about that. I’m feeling even worse seeing the messages on this thread.

Motherhood is a noble calling. My own mother was a SAHM and I respect her highly. But I believe that God gave me certain talents to work in my field and to use these talents I will need to work outside the home. To not use the the skills I have been given would be like hiding my lamp under a bushel basket. And yes, I have heard the arguments about the way mothers use all their skills in the home. Does God intend all women who are called to marriage to never work full-time outside the home?

Is a working mother who *chooses *to work a bad mother? I sure hope not. I’m not necessarily looking for affirmation (because I think many will disagree with me)…just clarification.

I don’t believe that if a woman works outside the home, even when the kids are little, and it isn’t an absolute necessity, that she is in any way shape or form, a bad Catholic. Anyone who tells a woman that is judgemental, and there are no grounds for it, in Catholic doctrine. I think that we should do what God calls us to do…

I have seen plenty of stay at home moms who have brats for kids, and I have seen plenty of stay at home moms who have well behaved, respectful kids. Same holds true for women who work outside of the home. It’s how you parent, that counts. It’s quality time with your children that counts. Just because a woman is a stay at home mom, doesn’t automatically mean her kids will grow up to be any more well adjusted than a mom who chose to work outside the home, or had to. I stayed at home, and would hear it from women who worked when their kids were young, the negative jabs at being at home with my kids…and then I also would see working moms being jabbed at by stay at home moms.

Women should stop judging one another, and start realizing we are all God’s children, and on the same side, so to speak. I really don’t understand, and never will, the need for many women out there, Catholic and non-Catholic, to judge other women, in their choices. Being a stay at home mom, or being a working out of the home mom, does not increase or diminish one’s value in the eyes of God, so long as we are putting Him first, and our families’ needs first.

 

[maria29]

I did not choose my husband based on his income, in fact he had just been laid off when I met him. However, we both agreed that it was extremely important for him to be the source of income **so that our children would be raised by their mother and not a day care **center :extrahappy: . He has been laid off again and I do what I can (Sub teach, home day care) to help out while he works at a lesser job until he finds something good again.

We have made many sacrifices; no vacations, old cars, no cable etc.

I voted that it was not essential, but nice, however I have to make an amendment to that.

To me, it was absolutely essential. I would not have married my husband if he would have expected me to work after we had children. It was one of the deal breakers for me as far as which men I would consider a serious relationship or marriage with. I don’t think it is necessary to a holy marriage, though.

We are the only faithful Catholics in our area that I am aware of. Our family that is local, while fantastic people, are not Catholic. They do respect our beliefs and what we teach the children, but they would not teach it to them if they watched our children while I worked. I know of no Catholic daycare centers. ** And no one could care for our children the way I do because no one loves them like I do.** Not even their dad has the same relationship with them that I do.

I feel very strongly that my children are best served by me caring for them everyday. They do spend plenty of time with their very attentive and loving father and their family and friends, but I am the one caring for them, teaching their lessons, making sure they get enough good food, water, exercise, and intellectual stimulation with a good balance of playtime. No one would invest themselves or be as concerned about my children as I am.

So for me, it was a deal breaker.

My husband has a two year technical degree and I have a BA in biology, so my earning potential is about 2-3 times what his is, but we don’t care. We’re making it work on about $40,000 a year. We own our home (we built it), two cars (hand me downs), my kids wear handmedowns and gifts from relatives. They dont get the latest toys. We watch our pennies and indulge only in what we feel we would really like to have (a basic satellite package, baseball with the office for DH, etc).

I homeschool, cloth diaper, breastfeed, etc. Kids are not as expensive as people make them out to be, espeically if you are careful. We do have some debt, mostly made from bad choices, but we are taking responsibility for it and paying it off (slowly but surely). We don’t live in the city, but we don’t live so far away that DH’s salary is eaten up in gas for a commute, either.

It isn’t impossible. You just have to be convicted about the importance of it to make it work.

Statements like these I find can be dangerous, insulting and never take into God’s plans for individual families. For some families it is requiered that both parents work to make ends meet. I know many Catholic families where both sets have to work, who don’t use a Catholic daycare and their children are some of the most awesome kids I’ve ever met.

I get so tired of hearing the old argument on here about how if you’d just cut corners then you too can be a SAHM. This doesn’t work for everyone especially depending on where you live. Nor should WOHM ever be made to feel that its wrong to put a child in daycare, especially if that family is following God’s for them at that time.

 

[ChristinaM]

Yes, the posts quoted above were the ones I was referring to in my previous posts. They seem to imply I would be damaging my kids if I had to put them in daycare. The ideal situation for me would be working half-days and evenings so that I can care for my children at least part of the day. Barring that, I would prefer to hire a nanny, or even let a family member take care of them. I would love to have a traditional Chinese household where many generations live together. I believe extended families are meant to help each other. But sometimes those aren’t always options.

In this particular area, I feel like I get it from all sides. The secular world thinks I’m nuts for not using BC and postponing kids until I have tenure. The Catholic world thinks I’m nuts for wanting to pursue such a demanding career and leave my kids in gasp daycare. I just can’t win. Not saying that anyone on this thread has come right out and said that, but that is the impression I get. I thank those who have been supportive and realize that God has a plan for each family.

 

[unworthy]

I’m a single woman; I imagine you’re looking for some insight from a single woman? For me it depends on the circumstances. If my husband is unable to support both of us and/or the children financially then in love I want to work as well to support my family. What I fully expect myself to do (and I think many single women nowadays expect of themselves too) unless my husband wishes against me doing so, is for me to work as well.
That said it is important to me that my husband actively seek employment, i.e. desires to support his family, however he can; I fully expect that of myself as well. Whether or not he will be able to support both me and the kids so that I can stay at home is, I think, another matter that rests in God’s hands. However life is presented to us, I have faith that both hubby and I can work it out when the time comes.

 

[Just_wondering]

I would love to have a traditional Chinese household where many generations live together. I believe extended families are meant to help each other. But sometimes those aren’t always options.

I know what you mean. I would love to follow the Asian model and have an extended family living together. My boyfriend already has two children from a previous marriage, and I told him I’d love to live by his mom or his sisters so that I could have the support of an extended family with experience with kids. Unfortunately, they live in the Philippines and he doesn’t want his daughters to grow up there, so we won’t be following the traditional extended family model. With luck, though, we’ll be able to sponsor his sisters in a few years’ time, but by then I’ll probably (hopefully) have the hang of this mommy thing.

 

[Guitar]

Lol! Okay, I just wanted to clarify here - and not because I feel this is criticism, but because I realize how umm…dominating I made my DH sound . Anyway, I just wanted to show that on both sides this was agreeable

Fear not - I didn’t think you made him sound like that and I inferred that you also were happy with this arrangement.

I guess for me, personally, it was an issue deeper than who brings home the majority of the bacon (or in our case, the pasta, we’re vegetarian). For various reasons, marriage to someone who had strong feelings about gender determining “normal” roles/behaviour/attitudes/interests or thought that determining workshare between us would be a matter of letting or allowing on either side just would not work. Our set up strikes a lot of people as rather strange, but that’s OK, they can mind their own business.

I know what suits me is not for everyone - my parents had a very traditional marriage in terms of gender roles, though Dad made it clear that his career was for the family, not for its own sake. He was always hands-on involved, especially with babies and toddlers, and he praised childraising and caring for the home as the highest of all possible vocations, way higher than his as the breadwinner, and it wasn’t just words, he really meant it. (On the other hand this same Dad referred to us as “the two strong men of the family” and jokingly used to refer to setting up as Blot & Daughter Engineering Pty Ltd, so he didn’t think that women weren’t capable of looking out for themselves outside the home or protectorship of their menfolk. ) And for my mother, it was truly essential to have a husband who was able to / wanted to protect her and would be the breadwinner, and that’s just what God gave her and they were perfectly suited and very happy. And she and I are such totally different women it’s unbelievable, so I followed a different path and that’s worked for me too.

So, no I didn’t think for a minute that Mr Blossom was domineering.

 

[jman507]

In this particular area, I feel like I get it from all sides. The secular world thinks I’m nuts for not using BC and postponing kids until I have tenure. The Catholic world thinks I’m nuts for wanting to pursue such a demanding career and leave my kids in gasp daycare. I just can’t win. Not saying that anyone on this thread has come right out and said that, but that is the impression I get. I thank those who have been supportive and realize that God has a plan for each family.

Stop that. You don’t have to justify what your doing is the only correct option. Just try to understand the strong points and weak points of any criticism; it may help you become aware of something you didn’t think about before. Nothing you do is set in stone. Chances are there will be things you did, later on you wished you did differently. That happens no matter what you do, and for everyone. Just try to plan on what you think is best, and be aware for new information and ideas that may make you change course.

I just always hate it when it seems these discussions seem to fall into a pattern where you must bring down all other possible options to justify your decisions. Also remember to be careful not to read too much into some posts. Try to avoid letting your doubts get the best of you. Just remember always, take some time to reassess the situations to see if you may need a new direction. Be confident that if you do that, you can avoid being blindsided by problems. Oh and don’t forget to pray.

 

[ChristinaM]

Stop that. You don’t have to justify what your doing is the only correct option.

I never said that…as I said before, I respect those women who choose to stay at home with their children.

Just try to plan on what you think is best, and be aware for new information and ideas that may make you change course.

I’m doing that.

I just always hate it when it seems these discussions seem to fall into a pattern where you must bring down all other possible options to justify your decisions.

I’m not bringing anyone down. I’m expressing my views on the topic just as the stay-at-home mothers have. If there was anywhere that I showed disrespect or criticism in any of my posts, please let me know so that I can clarify.

 

[OldAgeGuru]

Stop that. You don’t have to justify what your doing is the only correct option. Just try to understand the strong points and weak points of any criticism; it may help you become aware of something you didn’t think about before. Nothing you do is set in stone. Chances are there will be things you did, later on you wished you did differently. That happens no matter what you do, and for everyone. Just try to plan on what you think is best, and be aware for new information and ideas that may make you change course.

I just always hate it when it seems these discussions seem to fall into a pattern where you must bring down all other possible options to justify your decisions. Also remember to be careful not to read too much into some posts. Try to avoid letting your doubts get the best of you. Just remember always, take some time to reassess the situations to see if you may need a new direction. Be confident that if you do that, you can avoid being blindsided by problems. Oh and don’t forget to pray.

I agree. I’m not a mom yet, but I’m getting married in October, we’re not “planning” on starting a family right away but whatever happens, happens. That said, I live in Boston. We just bought a house, right now I would NEED to work. Even if we didn’t buy a house, rent for a 2 bedroom apartment, in a safe neighborhood, plus the cost of food, electricity, health care, yadda yadda would still necessitate that I work. If we had two kids right away, it wouldn’t make"sense" financially because we’d be paying more for child care than my salary.

I plan on working pretty much until I go into labor, or doctors orders, taking maternity leave, then exhausting my sick and vacation, and then going on FMLA and then return to work when I have a child.

But I live in an expensive area, someone in I dunno, Fargo ND, might not have the cost of living expenses as we do here in Boston, and can comfortably be a stay at home mom.

It also depends on your temperment. I could probably stay at home while the kids are still young, but once they are in school, I would go off the deep end being home all day alone with only housework to do. Ugh, that is my worst nightmare!

 

[jman507]

I never said that…as I said before, I respect those women who choose to stay at home with their children.

I’m doing that.

I’m not bringing anyone down. I’m expressing my views on the topic just as the stay-at-home mothers have. If there was anywhere that I showed disrespect or criticism in any of my posts, please let me know so that I can clarify.

Stop that too. I don’t think you’ve been anywhere disrespectful, so I don’t think you need to worry about that. What your doing is probably not putting anyone in danger, everything else can be changed.

You are expressing your views which is fine. You just come off as full of worry and doubt, when what your doing seems completely reasonable and prudent. Yes something may be wrong if your are not a bit worried, doubtful, and fearful, but given your situation I think you should be able to temper that with confidence that you can change if the situation lends itself to that.

 

[KCT]

My answer to the original question is, “It depends on the goals you have set.”

If the couple wants mom to be home to raise kids, then yes, dad needs a job to support the family.

 

[Litcrit]

I’m from Europe and this is just so very CULTURAL!

In my country, both men and women work in the fields while the grannies take care of the toddlers (the babies are on their mothers’ backs while they work in the fields). The women in my country, if alive and healthy, would be considered lazy if they didn’t bring home the bacon TOO…

And I emphasize this is CULTURAL and moms in my country get a full year of maternity leave and I, a mom will be doing like 5 hours of work a week, etc.