Women leading Communion Services--Does it give the wrong impression?

[Joannm]

In our diocese there is a moritorium on communion services except in rare instances. This is abbrogated for services that are held in nursing homes. We have a wonderful group of parishioners who conduct them each week at two nursing homes. However they follow the the rite in Pastoral Care for the Sick rather than the rite for Communion in the Absence of a Priest.

There is more to the idea of not holding communion services than simply who is doing them. A communion service is missing the important action of the sacrifice. We are not offering anything, simply receiving.

I would substitute the LOTH if a priest were not available for a given day of the week. So, you dont get to receive communion that day. Offer it up for those in areas of the world who harldy ever see a priest and never get the opportunity to participate in the Mass.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Do you happen to know the name of said document? I have no idea why non-ordained/instituted religious should serve as EMsHC before non-religious who are also neither ordained nor instituted. The same for suggesting male religious somehow take precedence in this sort of case over female religious.

John references possibly the same document down below.

 

[AlexV]

If a priest isn’t available just recite part of the Divine Office in common. That helps prevent the whole “women who want to play priest” phenomenon rather nicely.

 

[THurifer2]

This is abbrogated for services that are held in nursing homes. We have a wonderful group of parishioners who conduct them each week at two nursing homes. However they follow the the rite in Pastoral Care for the Sick rather than the rite for Communion in the Absence of a Priest.

.

Forgive me I am relatively unfamiliar with having communion services in Nursing homes and it my different where I live there is quite a few nursing homes in my state but none of them are Catholic. Where are you getting the Eucharist?

I am very familiar with taking communion to Nursing home pts…I have participated in that countless times. But to have a communion service just doesn’t sound right to me.

I have been trained that communion to the shut-ins and residents of nursing homes is supposed to be taken to them in a pyx and taken directly to them for consumption. I am getting visions of toting a consecrated host around for celebration…I am really wondering about that.

 

[Phemie]

Forgive me I am relatively unfamiliar with having communion services in Nursing homes and it my different where I live there is quite a few nursing homes in my state but none of them are Catholic. Where are you getting the Eucharist?

I am very familiar with taking communion to Nursing home pts…I have participated in that countless times. But to have a communion service just doesn’t sound right to me.

I have been trained that communion to the shut-ins and residents of nursing homes is supposed to be taken to them in a pyx and taken directly to them for consumption. I am getting visions of toting a consecrated host around for celebration…I am really wondering about that.

There is a liturgy that accompanies giving communion to the sick & shut-ins. If, rather than doing that at each bedside, you can have all the nursing home clients come together in one spot for the liturgy and then distribute communion is that a problem??

 

[John_Lilburne]

Forgive me I am relatively unfamiliar with having communion services in Nursing homes and it my different where I live there is quite a few nursing homes in my state but none of them are Catholic. Where are you getting the Eucharist?

I am very familiar with taking communion to Nursing home pts…I have participated in that countless times. But to have a communion service just doesn’t sound right to me.

I have been trained that communion to the shut-ins and residents of nursing homes is supposed to be taken to them in a pyx and taken directly to them for consumption. I am getting visions of toting a consecrated host around for celebration…I am really wondering about that.

I suggest reading Holy Communion and the Worship of the Eucharist Outside of Mass, n. 65-67. Basically for this situation there is:
An antiphon, in the first room.
for each individual “This is the Lamb of God …”, “Lord I am not worthy …”.
Concluding Prayer, perhaps in the last room.

From the 2004 Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum:
“133. … Furthermore the Rite for the administration of Communion to the sick, as prescribed in the Roman Ritual, is always to be used. [footnote 226: Cf. Roman Ritual, Holy Communion and Worship of the Eucharist Outside Mass, nn. 26-78.]”

 

[Joannm]

There is a liturgy that accompanies giving communion to the sick & shut-ins. If, rather than doing that at each bedside, you can have all the nursing home clients come together in one spot for the liturgy and then distribute communion is that a problem??

Yes, this is exactly what we do. For those unable to come to the common room for the service the EMs go to their rooms following the service. Occasionally a priest will come to annoint them and celebrate Mass. Those doing the service get the Eucharist following the morning Mass at the parish.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Forgive me I am relatively unfamiliar with having communion services in Nursing homes and it my different where I live there is quite a few nursing homes in my state but none of them are Catholic. Where are you getting the Eucharist?

I am very familiar with taking communion to Nursing home pts…I have participated in that countless times. But to have a communion service just doesn’t sound right to me.

I have been trained that communion to the shut-ins and residents of nursing homes is supposed to be taken to them in a pyx and taken directly to them for consumption. I am getting visions of toting a consecrated host around for celebration…I am really wondering about that.

That is correct when they are unable to gather as a Catholic community. If they are able to leave their rooms it is preferred that a Communion Service (if a priest is not available to celebrate Mass) be offered to them.

 

[John_Lilburne]

…I am very familiar with taking communion to Nursing home pts…I have participated in that countless times. But to have a communion service just doesn’t sound right to me.

The fuller communion service is encouraged as the normal way of giving communion to the sick. The shorter rite is exceptional, imposed by the circumstances.

From Holy Communion and the Worship of the Eucharist Outside of Mass:
“64. This shorter rite is to be used when communion is given in different rooms of the same building, such as a hospital. Elements taken from the ordinary rite may be added according to circumstances.”

So there will be lots of practical issues. Can the residents gather in one room? Will the staff permit this, help with this?

If so the Ordinary Rite should be used. The additional elements it has are:
Greeting
Penitential rite (I confess to almighty God … or other form)
Reading
Our Father.
Then after Communion:
Concluding Prayer
Blessing

Some or all of these can be done in the ceremony in each room, as it has in n. 64 above.

Reference: The Rites Volume One, Liturgical Press, 1990, ISBN: 0-8146-6015-0, page 662. Another smaller book with these ceremonies is: A Ritual for Laypersons, Liturgical Press, 1993, ISBN 0814621503.

 

[wupsie50]

I, for one, refuse to attend a communion service at all even on a Sunday. There are too many abuses that happen either through ignorance or indifference of the lay people. I will drive many miles to attend a Mass. Hopefully, Pope Benedict will issue some definite prayers and norms including whom may preside.

 

[Paladin_V]

I certainly hope and pray they don’t get cut. People in Panama (from direct experience) and throughout Central South America (and elsewhere too, I suppose), will go weeks and even months without being able to recieve our Lord. This is a much larger issue than people realize. These “extraordinary” circumstances in which a communion service would only be allowed are not just commonplace but a fact of life throughout a large portion of the world.

If they can’t get a Mass, they should at least be able to have a communion service. In much of the world, a priest simply cannot be available every week. While this unfortunate condition still exists, it is absolutely necessary that lay people step up to pastoral roles, include instructing the community in the tenents of the faith and bringing our Lord to them in the Eucharist.

 

[Paten]

I, for one, refuse to attend a communion service at all even on a Sunday. There are too many abuses that happen either through ignorance or indifference of the lay people. I will drive many miles to attend a Mass. Hopefully, Pope Benedict will issue some definite prayers and norms including whom may preside.

You really don’t see the error in your logic do you? Apparently you have attended some CSs were some abuses take place. I have no idea what your sample size is, but you’re trying to infer that CSs are inherently liturgically abusive and that’s simply incorrect.

And BTW,there ARE “definite prayers and norms including whom may preside.”(sic)

 

[jmcrae]

Oh, please, please, please. I hope you are correct!

What makes us assume that we have a guaranteed right to a Holy Communion service when there is no priest available? This is a relatively modern phenomenon which I find very disturbing.

If someone is doing a Novena, it can be distressing for them not to be able to receive Holy Communion each day consecutively for the full nine days.

I realize that, yes, they could make a spiritual communion instead, and it would technically still fulfill their Novena - nevertheless, I think it contributes to peace and good order if, there being no Mass available conveniently, there is at least a Communion service that they can go to, in order to fulfill their Novena promises (since in my experience, people make these promises assuming that there will be daily Masses that they can attend, and without looking at the Diocescan schedule to see whether, for example, all of the priests will be away from the Diocese during the coming week).

 

[G_S]

A lot of difficult questions are raised here. Communion services are not prohibited on weekdays but are inadvisable. The exception would be when a weekly service could only be held on a weekday – perhaps in the middle of a jungle, on the battlefield… The bishop should provide proper guidance and guidelines in this matter.

As a deacon, when I conduct a Communion service, I do not sit in the priest’s chair.

A lay person conducting such a service should not say “the Lord be with you,” “the peace of the Lord be with you,” or bless the people at the end of the service. A lay person could make the Sign of the Cross on him/herself saying something such as, “may almighty God bless us…” This is the basic form used when a lay person presides at the Liturgy of the Hours saying, “May the Lord bless us, protect us from evil, and bring us to everlasting life.”

 

[Joannm]

A lot of difficult questions are raised here. Communion services are not prohibited on weekdays but are inadvisable. The exception would be when a weekly service could only be held on a weekday – perhaps in the middle of a jungle, on the battlefield… The bishop should provide proper guidance and guidelines in this matter.

As a deacon, when I conduct a Communion service, I do not sit in the priest’s chair.

A lay person conducting such a service should not say “the Lord be with you,” “the peace of the Lord be with you,” or bless the people at the end of the service. A lay person could make the Sign of the Cross on him/herself saying something such as, “may almighty God bless us…” This is the basic form used when a lay person presides at the Liturgy of the Hours saying, “May the Lord bless us, protect us from evil, and bring us to everlasting life.”

As an ordained deacon you can sit in the presider’s chair (it’s not the “priest’s” chair). Do you sit in it when you preside at baptisms and weddings, Evening prayer or prayer services? Our deacons are taught that they can and should sit in it when taking on the role of presider.

 

[G_S]

As an ordained deacon you can sit in the presider’s chair (it’s not the “priest’s” chair). Do you sit in it when you preside at baptisms and weddings, Evening prayer or prayer services? Our deacons are taught that they can and should sit in it when taking on the role of presider.

Well, I deliberately called it the priest’s chair. The presider term is difficult. If it is the presider’s chair, then what possible reason would there be to exclude a lay person from sitting in it when presiding at a Communion service, the Liturgy of the Hours, or any other prayer service? I do not sit in it when conducting a baptism or officiating at a wedding.

 

[G_S]

Along the same lines: Just because something might be allowed, it is not always expedient. Not sitting in the priest’s chair for a Communion service helps to make it seem and look like it’s not a Mass. Communion services should always stir up a hunger for the Eucharistic celebration rather than give a complete sense of satisfaction. The very emptiness of the chair speaks loudly. I hope I never hear, “I like it when the deacon says Mass.” If I ever do, I’ll save everybody time by denouncing my self in public. Consider the prayer – soon to be properly translated – Ecce Agnus Dei. Ecce qui tollit peccata mundi. Beati qui ad cenam Agni vocati sunt. Behold the Lamb of God. Behold Him who takes away the sins of the world. Blessed are those who are called to the Supper of the Lamb. Even the Eucharistic Presence is meant to stir up a hunger for the Eschatological banquet – the Supper of the Lamb – in the eternity of the world to come.

 

[Paten]

As an ordained deacon you can sit in the presider’s chair (it’s not the “priest’s” chair). Do you sit in it when you preside at baptisms and weddings, Evening prayer or prayer services? Our deacons are taught that they can and should sit in it when taking on the role of presider.

That term “presider” is so Protestant – “we ALL celebrate the Mass and the priest is the presider.” Egads. To me the priest or bishop is the Mass celebrant.

If I were a deacon, I certainly wouldn’t sit in the celebrant’s chair. I would sit in the deacon’s chair. No-brainer.

 

[John_Lilburne]

The 2004 Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum has in n. 165, about celebrations in the absence of a priest: “Nor is it ever appropriate to refer to any member of the lay faithful as “presiding” over the celebration.”

This was despite approved translations of the General Instruction of the Liturgy of the Hours having: “258. In the absence of a priest or deacon, the one who presides at the office is only one among equals and does not enter the sanctuary or greet and bless the people.”

The 1988 Directory for Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of Priest refers to the “presidential chair” which is used by a deacon: “He uses the presidential chair.” (n. 38). It is not used by a lay person, who is to use “another chair prepared outside the sanctuary” (n. 40).

So I think a deacon should use this presidential chair, as directed.

The term “presides” is used regularly in the liturgical books. But I don’t think “presider” is ever used.