Women Lectors and EMHC's

[Fidelia]

With the exceptions of ordination to the priesthood and childbirth, of course.

yes. goes without saying.

 

[Fidelia]

Might work like that in your parish, but in mine we have some pretty pushy females who will never give up their role to anyone, man or woman. I think they are going to be there until they die. Doesn’t matter how many times you offer to replace them when their term is up. They just say, “Oh, no one wants to do this except me.” I gave up years ago. When we would ask the priest about it, he would tell us we had to talk to the person currently serving in the ministry.

And I’ve noticed that when they do give up one of their many ministries, they don’t go through the priest. They hand select someone way before they ever announce they are leaving and present that person to the priest, leaving everyone else out of the running. It’s all about power and control.

anyone like that, man or woman, clearly just wants the prominent position, and does not have serving God in mind. just like someone who sings in the choir only for the opportunity to perform.

 

[BlestOne]

Might work like that in your parish, but in mine we have some pretty pushy females who will never give up their role to anyone, man or woman. I think they are going to be there until they die. Doesn’t matter how many times you offer to replace them when their term is up. They just say, “Oh, no one wants to do this except me.” I gave up years ago. When we would ask the priest about it, he would tell us we had to talk to the person currently serving in the ministry.

And I’ve noticed that when they do give up one of their many ministries, they don’t go through the priest. They hand select someone way before they ever announce they are leaving and present that person to the priest, leaving everyone else out of the running. It’s all about power and control.

This is what i was thinking too… to a point. My pastor is a very gentle sort and he allows some of this to go on just to not offend.

 

[otjm]

Another aspect of the discussion is the rumoured Motu Proprio of Benedict XVI. If the 1964 Roman Missal can be used by any priest for any Mass, what is the church saying about the role of women in the sanctuary?

Actually, there should be no problem, as those who want the Mass from the 1964 Missal are generally those who don’t seem to like women having any role in the sanctuary to begin with. And since I don’t believe there are provisions in the Missal for lay lectors, it becomes a non-issue. It is less an issue about the Church saying anything about it than it is an issue of the format of the Mass. That is, unless one is presuming that the alleged Motu Proprio is a subtle indication that the Mass of Paul 6th is being done away with. Benedict 16th himself has said that is not the issue and isn’t going to happen. Presuming that he is being perhaps less than straight-forward on the issue is akin to presuming that he was going to crack heads when he took office; both are a serious mis-reading of who he really is.

 

[paramedicgirl]

This is what i was thinking too… to a point. My pastor is a very gentle sort and he allows some of this to go on just to not offend.

But in so doing, he only manages to preserve offending one person, the one who wants all the power and control. All the others give up ever trying to offer their services, because they are continually thwarted by the people who are in control. This happens routinely at my parish.

 

[jmcrae]

Might work like that in your parish, but in mine we have some pretty pushy females who will never give up their role to anyone, man or woman. I think they are going to be there until they die. Doesn’t matter how many times you offer to replace them when their term is up. They just say, “Oh, no one wants to do this except me.” I gave up years ago. When we would ask the priest about it, he would tell us we had to talk to the person currently serving in the ministry.

If the priest wants you in there, all he has to do is schedule you in, and send you the schedule so that you know what time to be there. The other lay people don’t actually have a say in the matter - if he takes them off the schedule, are they going to come along and tell the person who was scheduled in their place, “Oh, this is my job, not yours”? If they do, just stand your ground and say, “Well, that’s my name on the schedule, not yours. Sorry!”

And I’ve noticed that when they do give up one of their many ministries, they don’t go through the priest. They hand select someone way before they ever announce they are leaving and present that person to the priest, leaving everyone else out of the running. It’s all about power and control.

Only because the priest is letting them get away with it. It’s his call; not theirs. He writes the schedule; not them.

 

[paramedicgirl]

If the priest wants you in there, all he has to do is schedule you in, and send you the schedule so that you know what time to be there. The other lay people don’t actually have a say in the matter - if he takes them off the schedule, are they going to come along and tell the person who was scheduled in their place, “Oh, this is my job, not yours”? If they do, just stand your ground and say, “Well, that’s my name on the schedule, not yours. Sorry!”

Only because the priest is letting them get away with it. It’s his call; not theirs. He writes the schedule; not them.

We only have schedules for EMHC and altar servers. I would never be an EMHC. I’m talking about ministries like youth and altar server coordinator. These are ownership ministries in my parish, and you can never get in just by asking the priest. My personal feeling is that they are run by power hungry women (in my own parish). I used to ask if I could be next when their term ran out and I got scoffed at for suggesting that anyone else would ever step up to the plate, and I was informed in no uncertain terms that there wasn’t a timeline for them to head the ministry. I just gave up, and went to head a secular youth group for the local Community Foundation, which was extremely successful, (but in no way did religion enter into it).

 

[jmcrae]

We only have schedules for EMHC and altar servers. I would never be an EMHC. I’m talking about ministries like youth and altar server coordinator. These are ownership ministries in my parish, and you can never get in just by asking the priest. My personal feeling is that they are run by power hungry women (in my own parish). I used to ask if I could be next when their term ran out and I got scoffed at for suggesting that anyone else would ever step up to the plate,

Did you point out them, “Uh, I’m standing right here, asking to step up to the plate - or do I not count, for some reason?”

and I was informed in no uncertain terms that there wasn’t a timeline for them to head the ministry.

I sympathize. I’ve dealt with people like that, and I’ve also been that person, at certain times in my life.

One thing a person might do, under those kind of circumstances, is just show up to help - this needs to be handled delicately, but if you show up and make yourself useful (rather than openly try to take over) then you would become a trusted member of the team, and you could eventually become the person in charge.

One fear that controlling leaders have is that someone coming in to take over will undo all the good work they’ve done, screw everything up, and make a mess of things. So it’s really important when dealing with that kind of personality (whether male or female) to show yourself as someone who is teachable and able to take direction. If you can do that, then they’ll trust you with
“their” ministry, and eventually you can be the person in charge, and change things a bit at a time until you feel you can pass it on to the next person.

I know for myself, if I’ve been doing something for a while, it’s irritating to have someone come in who “knows it all,” thumps the kids on the head with a whole new set of rules and regulations, scares them all away, and then leaves me to pick up the pieces and try to rebuild the ministry.

But I’m also more than grateful for help from people who are willing to listen to me, and willing to do things “my” way, at least to begin with, while also being willing to communicate about making changes, and being willing to let change happen gradually rather than just all of a sudden changing all the rules at once.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Did you point out them, “Uh, I’m standing right here, asking to step up to the plate - or do I not count, for some reason?”

I sympathize. I’ve dealt with people like that, and I’ve also been that person, at certain times in my life.

One thing a person might do, under those kind of circumstances, is just show up to help - this needs to be handled delicately, but if you show up and make yourself useful (rather than openly try to take over) then you would become a trusted member of the team, and you could eventually become the person in charge.

One fear that controlling leaders have is that someone coming in to take over will undo all the good work they’ve done, screw everything up, and make a mess of things. So it’s really important when dealing with that kind of personality (whether male or female) to show yourself as someone who is teachable and able to take direction. If you can do that, then they’ll trust you with
“their” ministry, and eventually you can be the person in charge, and change things a bit at a time until you feel you can pass it on to the next person.

I know for myself, if I’ve been doing something for a while, it’s irritating to have someone come in who “knows it all,” thumps the kids on the head with a whole new set of rules and regulations, scares them all away, and then leaves me to pick up the pieces and try to rebuild the ministry.

But I’m also more than grateful for help from people who are willing to listen to me, and willing to do things “my” way, at least to begin with, while also being willing to communicate about making changes, and being willing to let change happen gradually rather than just all of a sudden changing all the rules at once.

All good advice, but the effect it had on me, was that I gave up and became interested in other things. Now there’s one less volunteer at our Church which is perennially short of helping hands because I’m too busy with my other projects.

 

[SerenaHC]

Hi, I rarely post, just a lurker.

I’m a convert and I think I have a different perspective. As a protestant, I was used to spending a lot of time at church, as long as it took. As a Catholic, I was shocked to see that, as soon as people partook of the eucharist, they were hitting the door and leaving church!

The only real reason that I see in my parish for EMHC’s is so that communion can be given out quickly so that Mass can end sooner. Our Sunday Masses are at 9 a.m. and 10:30 a.m., back to back. If Mass were rescheduled for 9 a.m. and 11:00 or 11:30 a.m., there would be plenty of time in the Mass for the priest and deacon to distribute communion without the help of various laypeople, many of whom are disrespectfully wearing jeans and sneakers. I think we have so many EMHC’s in the church in part because the priests are responding to the desire of many cradle catholics to get Mass over with as soon as possible so that they can fulfill their weekly “obligation” and go play golf.

If people had a true appreciation for what the eucharist is, they wouldn’t be in such an all-fired hurry to get it over with. They wouldn’t come to Mass because they “have to” but because they love Christ and want to spend time with Him.

Just my two cents.

Serena

 

[otjm]

Hi, I rarely post, just a lurker.

I’m a convert and I think I have a different perspective. As a protestant, I was used to spending a lot of time at church, as long as it took. As a Catholic, I was shocked to see that, as soon as people partook of the eucharist, they were hitting the door and leaving church!

The only real reason that I see in my parish for EMHC’s is so that communion can be given out quickly so that Mass can end sooner. Our Sunday Masses are at 9 a.m. and 10:30 a.m., back to back. If Mass were rescheduled for 9 a.m. and 11:00 or 11:30 a.m., there would be plenty of time in the Mass for the priest and deacon to distribute communion without the help of various laypeople, many of whom are disrespectfully wearing jeans and sneakers. I think we have so many EMHC’s in the church in part because the priests are responding to the desire of many cradle catholics to get Mass over with as soon as possible so that they can fulfill their weekly “obligation” and go play golf.

If people had a true appreciation for what the eucharist is, they wouldn’t be in such an all-fired hurry to get it over with. They wouldn’t come to Mass because they “have to” but because they love Christ and want to spend time with Him.

Just my two cents.

Serena

Actually, there are several reasons for EMHCs. Most parishes may not have a deacon and may not even have a second (or more) priest. Ours has had a priest for 12 years who is now, if I remember correctly, 75; we have 4 Masses, and just recently received our second priest (who is about the same age or older). No deacon currently.

One of the things I have noticed repeatedly is that while the whole congregation receives more quickly, each individual is receiving more slowly. There is no priest hustling along an altar rail popping the Eucharist on a tongue while saying (rapidly) “Body of Christ”. The whole process of an individual stepping up to the priest or EMHC, giving a short bow, answering “Amen”, then presenting their hand or tongue for the Eucharist takes more time. It has always struck me as more reverent.

And the issue of people leaving Mass early is by no means a new phenomenon; my dad was an usher pre-Vatican 2, and he always had a problem with people scooting out during Communion (and back then not as many people received, in part because of the long fast rules); they would just get up and leave. He would joke about locking the back (entrance) door until Mass was over.

Another reason for EMHCs is to receive from the Cup.

 

[BlestOne]

I know in my small parish we would never receive the precious blood without EMHC’s. We have 1 priest, we used to have 2 deacons, but both got critically ill within a year of ordination. We just got another deacon last weekend he was ordained. We are a small town and as such, we aren’t high on the priority list to get more clergy. Thankfully our pastor is mid 40’s and in the AFReserve too so he is in great shape. We are losing him next month and getting another priest. From what I can tell he is late 30’s to mid 40’s age range. Our bishop is really good at moving priests to where they are needed most. Our parish has the reputation for being very financially responsible. Our pastor saved us and ticked off alot of parishioners by cutting off financial aid to our high school so we could meet our budget. I assume they are sending him somewhere that has financial problems. As for what needs we have that could be met by a new pastor, I am not sure but God will reveal that in time I am sure.

 

[Biblioassistant]

I used to be an EMHC, but quit that - I simply didn’t feel worthy. I am a reader, and (to toot my own horn) am a very good one. I read so as to try and efface myself. I don’t get ALL DRAMATIC, nor do I read so slowly and portentiously that the congregation goes to sleep. I just read as simply as I can. The word of the Lord is powerful enough.

 

[HenryV]

if OP is about EMHCs why is the title asking about women lectors?

Yes my original question was about recieveing communion from an EEM of any sex (gender).
I think it obscures the fact that Jesus is the main celebrant and that He gives Himself to us in communion from His own hands.
I accept the rulings of the bishops as a faithful Catholic but do I have to agree that’s it’s the best possible thing?
Am I alone in thinking this?
Priests act in the person of Christ, the head of the body, the Church.

Wouldn’t the extra time it takes for the priest and deacon to administer communion be a perfect time to pray for more vocations?

Why are some bishops so sensitive to the feminist-fascist agenda?

 

[elliotfc]

The only real reason that I see in my parish for EMHC’s is so that communion can be given out quickly so that Mass can end sooner.

This may or may not be the real reason, but you make a great point.

My church has 4 Sunday Masses. If they don’t end promptly, the next Mass starts late. If only a priest/deacon was to distribute the species, mass would take an extra 10 minutes at the english masses and 20 minutes at the spanish masses.

At my particular church…I’d say 2 out of 3 lectors and EMs are women.

This thread is the first place I’ve ever seen the issue of female EMs discussed.

 

[sosayi1960]

I’ve been reading alot of the postings here. I guess i’m not understanding why anybody is concerned about who gives out Communion. St. Paul states: “In Christ, there IS No Male, No Female”. Is is possible brothers and sisters, that the Holy Spirit is bringing a new Pentecost to the Church? Instead of arguing the letter of the law, perhaps, the church needs to return to the heart of the law. Many people are so concerned about the trivial and the fine detail and ignore the complete picture. Isn’t worship of God a community event as the early Christian’s taught us? Yes, it’s also personal too.Does it really matter who reads the word of God as long as it’s read? In history, has God only spoken to one exclusive sex? Of course not! God chooses to speak through all his children. Isn’t Faustina a women? Isn’t Mary? God reveals his Love to all, irregardless of gender. With the arrival of Pentecost, let’s all pray for the coming of the Holy Spirit and the kingdom. We are not of this world. We are followers of Jesus Christ and his Kingdom. Pray for unity and Peace through the power of the Holy Sprirt. May God open all our hearts and our eyes. Have a Blessed Pentecost!
Joe

 

[HenryV]

I’ve been reading alot of the postings here. I guess i’m not understanding why anybody is concerned about who gives out Communion. St. Paul states: “In Christ, there IS No Male, No Female”. Is is possible brothers and sisters, that the Holy Spirit is bringing a new Pentecost to the Church? Instead of arguing the letter of the law, perhaps, the church needs to return to the heart of the law. Many people are so concerned about the trivial and the fine detail and ignore the complete picture. Isn’t worship of God a community event as the early Christian’s taught us? Yes, it’s also personal too.Does it really matter who reads the word of God as long as it’s read? In history, has God only spoken to one exclusive sex? Of course not! God chooses to speak through all his children. Isn’t Faustina a women? Isn’t Mary? God reveals his Love to all, irregardless of gender. With the arrival of Pentecost, let’s all pray for the coming of the Holy Spirit and the kingdom. We are not of this world. We are followers of Jesus Christ and his Kingdom. Pray for unity and Peace through the power of the Holy Sprirt. May God open all our hearts and our eyes. Have a Blessed Pentecost!
Joe

Yes of course we are all children of God but that does not diminish the fact that we are created male and female.
Even in heaven we will still be male and female.
The eucharist is the eucharist whoever gives it to us, but it’s Christ who brings Himself to us.

Come Holy Spirit, Consoler, bring us peace and unity.

 

[THurifer2]

There is nothing a lay man can do that a lay woman can’t do. Both should be allowed equally, if lay people are allowed. Whether or not there should be lay EMHC’s or lectors, is a different issue.

Fidlelia you are incorrect. Lectors are actually one of the former minor orders of the priesthood. Along with Acolyte. (and formerly exorcist and porter)

Lay men can be instituted as acolytes and lectors…lay women cannot…