Women on the Altar at Mass

[Cristiano]

And what about the women who dislike women in a liturgical ministry?

Then these women would have serious issues with nuns and sisters praying the Liturgy of the Hours, and that would be a concern of mine because liturgy is a public work and not a private devotion.

 

[NewsTheMan]

[BIBLEDRB]1 Corinthians 14:34[/BIBLEDRB]

Was St.Paul not intelligent? A misogynist? Not a real Apostle of Christ? Or do feminists try explain away this inspired piece of writing using twisted heretical logic?

Women and men are different. That is fundamental Catholic truth. They do not always have the same roles in this world.

 

[Tigg]

Then these women would have serious issues with nuns and sisters praying the Liturgy of the Hours, and that would be a concern of mine because liturgy is a public work and not a private devotion.

I don’t know what you’re saying, but will comment as it relates to this thread, that for years now we have been warned that the radical feminist movement and the “Ordain Women Now” crowd has made great strides toward their goal by the placement of women in highly visible roles on the altar. I’m a woman and love being one, and am not threatened in the least by the fact that God made me biologically different, or that my role in the Church may not be the same as men.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

The female drives out the male. There was a boy whose mother was an airline pilot. Asked if he wanted to be and airline pilot when he grew up, he replied, “No, that’s women’s work.”

What?

I don’t really care who is at the alter at Mass but this comment deserves a response.

According to your logic if a woman becomes President of the United States or achieves some other prestigious position, that will discourage men and boys from wanting it too.

As a man, let me tell you that were not all that shallow.
Moreover, positions that grant money and power remain attractive even if* tainted* by a woman’s touch.

 

[kch86]

Moreover, positions that grant money and power remain attractive even if* tainted* by a woman’s touch.

Yes, but we do sometimes feel uncomfortable in environments dominated entirely by women. Not because we feel threatened, but because we can’t fully relate. Many of us probably wouldn’t enjoy a girl’s night out in the cinema watching a chick flick.

What more can be said? We’re similar but still different and we’ve got similar but different roles and responsibilities.

We’re not just big, hairy women with dangly bits, you know…

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sedonaman
The female drives out the male.

Not arguing with this point you make. However; too much of the world today with our secular, relativistic society is likely too a big reason that has driven our men and boys away from the Sanctuary.

It deserves to be argued with.
Taken to its logical extreme its an argument in favor of excluding and segegrating women from society (like the Muslims do in places such as Saudi Arabia).

 

[Cristiano]

…Moreover, positions that grant money and power remain attractive even if* tainted* by a woman’s touch.

That is not an absolute statement. I cannot see any young man dreaming of marriage and of becoming the first lady.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

What you mean is proper brainwashing. That’s why it will take more than the law to convince me that men and women are not different.

Do you subscribe to the functionally inferior argument?

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

The OP’s question has been answered, yes its acceptable for a woman to take the role of altar server.

Let’s not turn this into a free for all…

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Its called misogyny. Although I am not quite sure I spelled it correctly. Jesus must have been one of those macho men because he only personally chose men to be his apostles.

Then again God must be a macho man too as he chose to become incarnate in the form of a man.

Or we could look at things maturely and realize that men and women are equal yet different and that liturgical ministry is not a symbol of power or superiority.

Jeepers I am glad I don’t se things that way. Seems sad to me to view **mother church **as a power structure. Which it is not.

I have always thought it was wierd at best that *Mother Church *has always just had men in the hierarchy. That Mother has never had a feminine (i.e. female) leader.

 

[sedonaman]

What?

I don’t really care who is at the alter at Mass but this comment deserves a response.

According to your logic if a woman becomes President of the United States or achieves some other prestigious position, that will discourage men and boys from wanting it too.

As a man, let me tell you that were not all that shallow.
Moreover, positions that grant money and power remain attractive even if* tainted* by a woman’s touch.

“The singular originality of the Church and of the priestly ministry within the Church requires a precise clarity of criteria. Concretely, one must never lose sight of the fact that the Church does not find the source of her faith and her constitutive structure in the principles of the social order of any historical period[1].” – + Joseph Card. Ratzinger
Prefect

Note:

1. Translation: Church doctrine is not determined by American liberal jet-set political correctness* of the day.

*Defn.: Political correctness: a crusade to ignorance characterized by denial of truth when it conflicts with ideology.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Originally Posted by Anna Claire
To those “macho men” who dislike women in a liturgical ministry…your true colors are shining through!

And what about the women who dislike women in a liturgical ministry?

Women can be misogynists too.

It appears quite common in places like China and India actually. Which is related to them aborting all (or at least most) their future daughters.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

[BIBLEDRB]1 Corinthians 14:34[/BIBLEDRB]

Was St.Paul not intelligent? A misogynist? Not a real Apostle of Christ? Or do feminists try explain away this inspired piece of writing using twisted heretical logic?

Women and men are different. That is fundamental Catholic truth. They do not always have the same roles in this world.

You can use quotes from Saint Paul to justify slavery too.
Just to put that statement in a bit of context.

Saint Paul was very much a supporter of the Status Quo in Pagan Rome.
He told women to obey their husbands as though their husbands were the lord (i.e. God).
He told slaves to obey their masters.
And Saint Paul said that Men were Made in the Image of God, but Women were just made in the Image of Man.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Yes, but we do sometimes feel uncomfortable in environments dominated entirely by women. Not because we feel threatened, but because we can’t fully relate. Many of us probably wouldn’t enjoy a girl’s night out in the cinema watching a chick flick.

What more can be said? We’re similar but still different and we’ve got similar but different roles and responsibilities.

We’re not just big, hairy women with dangly bits, you know…

I am saying that when you take these ideas to their fullest extent and use them to govern society you get ugly situations like life under the Taliban.
If women are equal we should treat them like their equal legally and socially.

Whereas if men think women are inferior and less deserving of protection and rights (as groups like the Taliban clearly do), the they should at least have the courage to say it up front.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

“The singular originality of the Church and of the priestly ministry within the Church requires a precise clarity of criteria. Concretely, one must never lose sight of the fact that the Church does not find the source of her faith and her constitutive structure in the principles of the social order of any historical period[1].” – + Joseph Card. Ratzinger
Prefect

Note:

1. Translation: Church doctrine is not determined by American liberal jet-set political correctness of the day.*

*Defn.: Political correctness: a crusade to ignorance characterized by denial of truth when it conflicts with ideology.

I notice that you have not directly responded to what I said.

Do you think women are functionally inferior or not?

In other words, do think men are smarter, stronger, more rational, more creative, etc. But that women are equal in some cosmic/spiritual sense (that is largely irrelevant from a practical point of view)?

Oh and one other thing…
Church doctrine now states that women deserve the same legal protections and rights, and that working women deserve our support. At least according to Pope John Paul II the Great (I can give you the relevant documents and quotes if necessary).

 

[kch86]

I am saying that when you take these ideas to their fullest extent and use them to govern society you get ugly situations like life under the Taliban.
If women are equal we should treat them like their equal legally and socially.

Whereas if men think women are inferior and less deserving of protection and rights (as groups like the Taliban clearly do), the they should at least have the courage to say it up front.

Well, I understand your justified fear of treating women as inferior. Unlike in Islam, Catholic teaching affirms the equal value of men and women. We believe there are some differences in our roles and responsibilities, and though they may be interchangeable in most cases, there are some specific instances where there is a preference or where they simply cannot, and these instances are confined almost solely to matters of religion.

I know that you may disagree with this, but even though Catholic teaching is very insistent on some things, I hope you understand that for the most part we are on the same page.

 

[Dicerning]

I have always thought it was wierd at best that *Mother Church *has always just had men in the hierarchy. That Mother has never had a feminine (i.e. female) SPOUSE.

There fixed it for ya.

see the point?

 

[Anna_Claire]

Kch86…God bless you but you are waaaayyy off base and proves my point. What year are we living in…1950? And by the way…your comments by definition are “sexist”. Look it up.
This kind of thinking only pushes away young people away from the church, especially women. For heaven sakes, try being welcoming. Women are not trying to be priests in the average parish setting. Women who desire the priesthood go off and join different communities. We are not a threat to any one! And it’s hogwash, as well as sexist, if you believe the presence of women or girls at mass is a cause of boys or men from not wanting to be priests.