Women Priests

[dwc]

TNT (does your user name reflect a propensity to blow up?), I never said that accepting the church’s authority was heavy handed. I accept the church’s authority because I’ve read the various documents, listened to people explain it to me and thought about it. If you look at all the threads, you’ll see I never once asked why women can’t be priests or shouldn’t be priests, or anything of the sort. Not sure if my position is clear, maybe you’ll still find some veiled heresy in there.

What I referred to as heavy handed are people like you who jump into threads like this trying to shut down people who are trying to ask about this topic for the most benign reasons. Read the original post here. He’s asking for HELP on how to explain the church’s position to a non-believer:

What scripture and or resources could I look to to formulate a good answer to explain the Catholic Church’s postion on this?

In response, he gets a couple of helpful posts with explanations and suggestions, and a bunch of posts with “because the church said so” comments and lectures. Gee, “because the church said so” is going to be really helpful to someone who’s not a member of the church. Isn’t this an apologetics forum? You know, one where people come to learn more about the faith and how to defend the faith to nonbelievers?

 

[TNT]

dwc:

TNT (does your user name reflect a propensity to blow up?), I never said that accepting the church’s authority was heavy handed. I accept the church’s authority because I’ve read the various documents, listened to people explain it to me and thought about it. If you look at all the threads, you’ll see I never once asked why women can’t be priests or shouldn’t be priests, or anything of the sort. Not sure if my position is clear, maybe you’ll still find some veiled heresy in there.

What I referred to as heavy handed are people like you who jump into threads like this trying to shut down people who are trying to ask about this topic for the most benign reasons. Read the original post here. He’s asking for HELP on how to explain the church’s position to a non-believer:

In response, he gets a couple of helpful posts with explanations and suggestions, and a bunch of posts with “because the church said so” comments and lectures. Gee, “because the church said so” is going to be really helpful to someone who’s not a member of the church. Isn’t this an apologetics forum? You know, one where people come to learn more about the faith and how to defend the faith to nonbelievers?

Compliments on your very good post…Now, where are the reasons that you gave that helped this person?
TNT is also benign …until you light the fuse.
I gave plenty of explicatory reasons and if St Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, said that women are to be silent in Church, then it would be pretty difficult to have them read the Gospel, and give a sermon (that’s St Paul, and the HS, so please do go off on me a a chauvenist as that is fuse lighting.)

 

[Gracie2004]

Christ came as the SON of God, NOT as the DAUGHTER of God. His SONSHIP is carried on by priests. It’s NOT a DAUGHERSHIP. Women cannot possibly be priests as they cannot carry on the SONSHIP of Christ.

 

[sarcophagus]

The way I see it is that women can do things men cannot (ie. give birth, be mothers) and men can do things women cannot (be fathers or priests). If this becomes such an issue on equality, that women want to be priests and men want to give birth, than surely we are entering a terrifying time. Equality means being equal in all things that can be done naturally. For example, women/men voting, equal pay for same jobs etc. But Catholic doctrine says that women CANNOT become priests, much like it is impossible (though arnold shwartzenagger may disagree) for men to give birth. Science can do all it can, but men giving birth is impossible and evil.

Although I’m not a devout catholic (trying to be) and I am very young (21) I do not see the wisdom in arguing a infalliable truth that has been taught for 2000 years. If it is that old, then it must be working and must be true. Personally, I can’t complain. Women are held in very high regard in the church. Look at Mary!!! She’s Queen of Heaven, Mother of Souls, MOTHER OF GOD!!! Can there be a better title than that??? Look at all the female saints, there are hundreds of them, all equally as capable in their devout life as the other. Why should we argue that women have no place? This is because, whether you agree or not, false feminism has rotted our spiritual minds. Those who do not agree, IMO, with the ordination of men only as taught by our church for over 2000 years, are disagreeing with God. In doing so, they are putting their souls in jeopardy.

 

[Funky_Cedars]

jeff,
your friend might benefit from the apostolic letter, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, by Pope John Paul II. its not a long read and i have copied it for a friend of mine who has questions about this. i hope it will help clarify things for him. unfortunately, he is attending Holy Family parish in inverness, il. the pastor, Fr Pat Brennen, favors married and women priests. he appears to think this will solve the crisis of vocations in the us. but he also seems to think J started a big-tent social organization which needs to promote salvation for everyone as they are, not a discipleship requiring everyone to accept His commands to enter the Father’s house. please pray for him so that he will stop harming his sheep.
anywho, good luck with your friend, i’ll keep him in my prayers.

Christ is risen!!!

 

[dwc]

attending Holy Family parish in inverness, il.

I attended mass there while visiting friends. It was like an out of body experience – very new agey, almost like one of the protestant super churches. My home parish is very orthodox and that is all my kids know. After the mass at Inverness my 9 year old asked me if that was a Catholic church. My husband and I both said, “kind of.”

 

[FiremanFrank]

Steve Andersen%between%

For something that is not a threat it is met with an awful lot of enlarged, bold, highlighted, red text

You seem to be very vehement about mere speculation.

And there you go again Stevie boy …:tsktsk:

I think I’m gonna be sick.

Because you have failed to comprehend the simple fact that it’s not the idea of “women priests:whacky:” itself that is threatening.

What has caused this wonderful person to use bold, highlighted and red letters - is because of the uneducated and unfaithful “Catholics” WHO PERSONALLY KEEP THREATENING the rest of us sane Catholics with such utter absurdities!

Just so you know …

 

[cantrell]

I actually asked my grandmother (Catholic her entire life, extremely devoted) about this subject.

Paraphrasing what she said: “Men are supposed to be the head, and women are supposed to be the heart. There is no inequality or machosim by only allowing men to become priests”.

 

[Steve_Andersen]

FiremanFrank:

And there you go again Stevie boy …

Stevie boy!?!?
That’s awfully familiar… Frankie

….What has caused this wonderful person to use bold, highlighted and red letters - is because of the uneducated and unfaithful “Catholics” WHO PERSONALLY KEEP THREATENING the rest of us sane Catholics with such utter absurdities!

Just so you know …

Now you’ve lost me

“personally keep threatening”?
Has anyone suggested that “someone” Is going to sneak into your parish and slip a few ordained women in? or that some “liberals” are going to do you bodily harm if you don’t agree with them?

I can understand that you think that that any and all discussion is moot.

But personally threatened?

I don’t understand.

 

[jeff_thompson]

dwc:

TNT (does your user name reflect a propensity to blow up?), I never said that accepting the church’s authority was heavy handed. I accept the church’s authority because I’ve read the various documents, listened to people explain it to me and thought about it. If you look at all the threads, you’ll see I never once asked why women can’t be priests or shouldn’t be priests, or anything of the sort. Not sure if my position is clear, maybe you’ll still find some veiled heresy in there.

What I referred to as heavy handed are people like you who jump into threads like this trying to shut down people who are trying to ask about this topic for the most benign reasons. Read the original post here. He’s asking for HELP on how to explain the church’s position to a non-believer:

In response, he gets a couple of helpful posts with explanations and suggestions, and a bunch of posts with “because the church said so” comments and lectures. Gee, “because the church said so” is going to be really helpful to someone who’s not a member of the church. Isn’t this an apologetics forum? You know, one where people come to learn more about the faith and how to defend the faith to nonbelievers?

Yes thank you for getting back to my question. I beleive in the Church and fully accept all items contained in the deposit of faith however my friend does not. That is why some scripture referance would be helpful

 

[jeff_thompson]

Gerry Hunter:

May I suggest you visit Peter Kreeft’s website?

He has, in his audio section, a lecture on the subject of why the priesthood is male. You can find it at:

peterkreeft.com/audio/09_priestesses.htm

There’s a series of them, and they cover the topic from a number of perspectives.

Blessings,

Gerry

Thank you I will look this up.

 

[jeff_thompson]

Dredgemate:

I’d recommend reading the Vatican document “Declaration on the Admission of Women to the Minesterial Preiesthood”. Put out in 1976, it was written by the CDF at the behest of Pope Paul VI and does a really good job of outlining the reasons why the Church feels it does not hold the authority to ordain women to the sacred priesthood. Here’s the link:

This looks like it will be helpful. thank you.

 

[jeff_thompson]

jeff thompson:

I have friend who is thinking more along the lines of what I call “American Catholic” and does not understand why women cannot be priests. I started a discussion about " persona christi" by did not get where I wanted to go. He is very open to dialouge as long as I can support my postion.

What scripture and or resources could I look to to formulate a good answer to explain the Catholic Church’s postion on this?

Scripture is what I most need can anyone help.

 

[Funky_Cedars]

jeff thompson:

Scripture is what I most need can anyone help.

perhaps you can request from your friend an example of a Scriptural text, NT or OT, which directs the ordination of women priests. he will not be able to provide it, but may then choose to argue the instruction is found in the silence.

either way, i would then broach the subject of authority. there are many irreconcilable interpretations offered on Scriptural texts. how then can we know what was truly meant by God when He spoke to us? would He have left us without an **authoritative **interpreter? [did the founding fathers give us a constitution open to interpretation as each american saw fit, or was there an *authoritative interpreter? if jefferson, adams, franklin, et al were smart enough to do so, could God have been less so?]

on the other hand, if each Christian can interpret the Word as they see fit, couldn’t someone understand J’s fond expressions regarding children (like, lest you become like one of these, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven) to indicate that they also should be able to become priests? would your friend agree or disagree with that and on what basis would he do so? and could one also determine that everything was said and done for those in the 1st century and therefore not relevant to us? (i’ve heard this argument made relative to the power to forgive being given to the apostles alone, therefore the power died with John’s death and is not available to our priests.)

you might ask your friend, ‘if the Church does not have the power to interpret the New Testament, why would you ascribe to it the power to collect its various books, separate them from other writings of the apostles and affirmably identify these alone as the True Word of God and record them for the ages?’ it seems reasonable that if one has the power to say ‘this is what He said’, then that same one also has the power to say ‘this is what He meant’.

God bless your conversations, i’m certain the Holy Spirit takes great delight in your work to assist Him in bringing the Truth to your friend. thanks for listening.

Glory be Jesus Christ!

 

[siamesecat]

obviously a man can’t be a mother…biologically he could never become pregnant. but there is no biological restriction on a woman becoming a priest. its a tradition. there’s a difference. A woman is not unable to become a priest mentally or physically. she technically could be one even if it went against scripture. A men could never become pregnant barring some weird artificial medical breakthrough. There’s nothing stopping a woman from becoming a priest except society.

 

[bordertown]

Won’t happen–ever. This idea is promoted almost exclusively by non-Catholics, the media and “progressive” quasi-Catholic groups.
They use this idea to “show” the people just how out of touch the Catholic Church is with the modern world as a way of diverting people away from the Church.

How many of these same people promote the worthiness of a nun’s life? How many of these same people promote the greatness of female saints in the Church?

There is an agenda there–and it’s nothing to do with women–it is everything to do with bringing down the Church.

 

[sparkle]

jeff thompson:

I have friend who is thinking more along the lines of what I call “American Catholic” and does not understand why women cannot be priests. I started a discussion about " persona christi" by did not get where I wanted to go. He is very open to dialouge as long as I can support my postion.

What scripture and or resources could I look to to formulate a good answer to explain the Catholic Church’s postion on this?

Funny you would bring it up Jeff, as just this weekend, got a flier in the mail from the Episcopal Parish we used to attend, (where my kids were Baptized) —saying their Priest had left, and now A WOMAN, MOST QUALIFIED, QUITE A WOMAN’S LIBBER, PRO EVERYTHING, had taken over. All the more reason to convert to the Catholic Church. I tell ya’all, IMO, don’t even go there. It is an endless battle. I’d say to your friend Jeff, that Christ left us all a Church, period. Show him it. Tell him. IF God calls him to listen and take heed, why, that’s the Holy Spirit’s doing. I’ve certainly learned this with my hubby.

God Bless You Jeff~ Take heed to what our Lord is telling you TODAY.

 

[Funky_Cedars]

siamesecat:

obviously…There’s nothing stopping a woman from becoming a priest except society.

perhaps you might also benefit from the apostolic letter, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, by Pope John Paul II. its not a long read and harkens back to the document, Declaration on the Admission of Women to the Minesterial Preiesthood, written by the CDF at the behest of Pope Paul VI.
both do a really good job of outlining the reasons why the Church feels it does not hold the authority to ordain women to the sacred priesthood.
This is not a tradition, rather it is part of Tradition. See the Catechism, 80-83, for a fuller understanding of the difference.

and, no the Church, as the body of Christ, the Word Incarnate, cannot go against Scripture, the written Word of God. if the Church could seperate itself form Scripture, there would really be no point to either.
thanks for listening, t

Glory be Jesus Christ!

 

[jburgherr]

siamesecat:

obviously a man can’t be a mother…biologically he could never become pregnant. but there is no biological restriction on a woman becoming a priest. its a tradition. there’s a difference. A woman is not unable to become a priest mentally or physically. she technically could be one even if it went against scripture. A men could never become pregnant barring some weird artificial medical breakthrough. There’s nothing stopping a woman from becoming a priest except society.

As you do not believe in God, Jesus, the Holy Spirt or a One Holy Catholic, and Apostolic Church, It is reasonable for you to come to the conclusion that you have.

However, for those of us who do believe, Holy Doctorine passed down by God to man is unchangable. The Pope has no authority to change doctorine. Doctorine, like God, is the same yesterday, today and forever…Amen!

God Be With You, Siamesecat

 

[Delgadoajj]

This (women priests) has the same chance of being realized as a peanut butter and jelly sandwich has of being used as the species for consecration = 0%.

Jorge.