Women Priests

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Miss_Primrose

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I read the other day that women can and should be allowed to become Priests because they feel that they are inspired by the Holy Spirit and that the Holy Spirit over rides the Holy Scripture as the Holy Spirit comes straight from God and not from the written inspired word of God that was written such a long time ago. I would love to hear what people think to this as I admit that it did make me think, How can we ignore God in the form of the Holy Spirit supposely from now the present and then use something inspired by God that was from so many years ago?

Are we jusified in sticking with scripture and Tradition over the Holy Spirit?:confused:

I am speaking about what I heard and not from personal belief but I wondered what everyone thought because it has made me think, is this wise to ignore? but then again I could have missed something vital which I haven’t considered:D.
 
I can not even imagine a woman Priest in the church. I guess I am way too traditional in my line of thinking.
 
The Holy Spirit cannot ‘override’ what’s revealed in Scripture. The two cannot contradict. If someone thinks God is calling them to do something that Scripture says they can’t do, then it’s not God telling them to do it.
 
Hi Miss Primrose,

I’ve never really heard that before - women feel inspired by the Holy Spirit and so should be ordained as priests. To be honest, holy inspiration has nothing to do with the ordained priesthood, if by this you mean something like a charismatic or internal feeling, movement of soul, towards the priesthood. The priesthood is a holy office, not necessarily a prophetic or charismatic role. I think if some women feel moved in this manner by the Spirit, they should meditate and discern what role they are being called to fulfill. It could be as a teacher or prophetess, but not as a priest.

On the question of following Scripture and Tradition, or the Holy Spirit…well, since the Holy Spirit is the fundamental author of Scripture and Tradition, it would seem strange that He would contradict Himself in this way. That’s why, any kind of private revelation, feeling or discernment needs to be tested against the teachings of the Church, as John writes: “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world…” (1 John 4:1, RSV)

God bless.

Jonathan
 
edwest2 said:
The Church has no authority to ordain women. Full answer here:

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

Peace,
Ed
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🙂 I agree with you and have no desire to go against the church but it doesn’t answer the question, Are we right to ignore the Holy Spirit today in favour of what the Holy Spirit said before? This is what court my attension with this, do we have the right to say all the women saying there guided by the Holy Spirit are wrong because it goes against what the Holy Spirit has previsouly said? How do we know that the views of the Holy Spirit have stayed the same?

It has made me think, I am not changing my mind about women priests but I am interested as to how we can assume that the Holy Spirit’s teaching won’t change and this is the just the issue that brought that topic to mind.

For isn’t the Holy Spirit God, and shouldn’t we as his church listen to God.
 
Well first up, why call them women priests, and not just simply priestesses?
If they are feeling they are called to be priestesses by the Holy Spirit, that is up to the Church to decide, its the way it goes for men also, a man might feel called, the Church decides whether or not it is a genuine call. Also keep these verses in mind when someone claims that the Holy Spirit is leading them do something that goes against Church teaching.

(2 Co 11:12–15) And what I do I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is not strange if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness.

Also St. Teresa of Avila has a small story about how the devil tricks us:

The devil, for instance, suggests to a sister, certain impetuous desires of doing penance, so that she never seems to rest but when she is torturing herself. This beginning is good; but if the superioress should have commanded that no penance should be done without leave, and the devil should make her believe that for so good an object she may take some liberty, she immediately and secretly enters upon such a course, whereby she in the end loses her health, and is therefore unable to do what the rule commands: then you see what all this apparent good ends in!

Teresa of Ávila, S., & Dalton, J. (1852). The Interior Castle (15–16). London: T. Jones.

So I would say to those women who want to be priestess to think is it worth disobeying the Church because you think God is calling you? Remember also the Church is a divine establishment, anything the Church teaches has come from God, and so to change the teaching on the priesthood would destroy the claim to truth the Church has, how can that be good?
 
The model of what represents Christian ministry was created by Jesus Christ, not by “the Church” or by any Pope.

We must strive to be faithful to Christ in all ways, which includes the structure of the Church he gave us.

In 1994, Pope John Paul II infallibly declared that the Church had no authority to ordain women as priests - it must stick to the model given to it by Christ Himself.

It is interesting to note that, Churches which have felt they knew better than Jesus - and ordained women on their own authority - have declined markedly and will not be around for too much longer (maybe a few more decades at best).

Regarding the point about “ignoring the Holy Spirit” - I dont think we are doing that, to be honest. Rather, I think the women who claim the Holy Spirit is calling them to the priesthood are either mistaken or are lieing*.

Like the Catholic Church, the Holy Spirit does not contradict Jesus Christ.

(*I dont like accussing people of lieing, but its a well know fact that many feminists resent the priesthood, for no good reason other than they cannot be part of it).
 
The way that it was explained to me, put simply:

It is an element of the Sacrament of Holy Orders that Jesus ordained men as his apostles when he institued the sacrament. It would be like taking water out of the sacrament of Baptism.

There are many vital ways that women can be involved in the lay ministry of the Church, just as there were women witnessing in the days of the first Christians.
 
Miss_Primrose said:
I read the other day that women can and should be allowed to become Priests because they feel that they are inspired by the Holy Spirit and that the Holy Spirit over rides the Holy Scripture as the Holy Spirit comes straight from God and not from the written inspired word of God that was written such a long time ago. I would love to hear what people think to this as I admit that it did make me think, How can we ignore God in the form of the Holy Spirit supposely from now the present and then use something inspired by God that was from so many years ago?

Are we jusified in sticking with scripture and Tradition over the Holy Spirit?:confused:

I am speaking about what I heard and not from personal belief but I wondered what everyone thought because it has made me think, is this wise to ignore? but then again I could have missed something vital which I haven’t considered:D.
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“They FEEL” they are inspired by the Holy Spirit? FEEL?

Um, Scripture itself points out that not all ‘spirits’ are holy, and that one can be misled by a ‘not’ holy’ spirit.

How can these women guarantee that what they “FEEL” is the Holy Spirit IS in fact the Holy Spirit?

Because the Holy Spirit cannot contradict Himself. Either the Catholic (and Orthodox) Churches have NOT had the Holy Spirit teaching for 2000 years and now suddenly these women ‘got’ Him, or the Catholic and Orthodox teachings are of the Holy Spirit and these women have a ‘fake’ Holy Spirit,’ Because the Holy Spirit cannot teach at the SAME TIME that He through the Church has no authority to ordain women, and yet ‘inspire’ these women to the priesthood. That is absolutely contradictory.

I know which scenario is far more likely!
 
The important question is how can we tell if a message/desire is from the Holy Spirit or not? Many people have believed they had a calling from God, which turned out not to be. I’m sure Martin Luther believed he was led by God to start the “reformation.” Because I have spent a number of years in Pentecostal Churches “led by the Spirit” and have seen various endeavors crash and burn, I am a little more skeptical about people who claim to be led by the Holy Spirit.

So what it comes down to, is there any objective method by which we can determine if a calling or desire is from the Holy Spirit, and not our own desires or worse? Well, we know from scripture that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and we know that God does not contradict Himself, and will not lead us into sin. So where does that leave us? Well, if we believe this to be true, then we know that God, in the person of the Holy Spirit, will never lead us to act in a way contrary to His revealed truth: namely Holy Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

So, if anyone is claiming to be led by God, but is going against what we know from the Church to be true, it is safe to conclude that this “calling” is false. Not to say that the person is being deliberately evil, but rather that they are likely being deceived, either by their own desires or some other source.
 
MikkiD said:
There are many vital ways that women can be involved in the lay ministry of the Church, just as there were women witnessing in the days of the first Christians.
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Absolutely right - and let us remember that women can dedicate their life to God just as well as any man - via becoming a nun.

A nun isnt inferior to a priest, just different - like men and women are different in general.

Imagine a man made a big fuss about the fact he couldnt become a nun and actually stated it was misandry / sexism that he wasnt allowed to join the nuns. How seriously do you think he would be taken?
 
jonathan_hili said:
Hi Miss Primrose,

I’ve never really heard that before - women feel inspired by the Holy Spirit and so should be ordained as priests. To be honest, holy inspiration has nothing to do with the ordained priesthood, if by this you mean something like a charismatic or internal feeling, movement of soul, towards the priesthood. The priesthood is a holy office, not necessarily a prophetic or charismatic role. I think if some women feel moved in this manner by the Spirit, they should meditate and discern what role they are being called to fulfill. It could be as a teacher or prophetess, but not as a priest.

On the question of following Scripture and Tradition, or the Holy Spirit…well, since the Holy Spirit is the fundamental author of Scripture and Tradition, it would seem strange that He would contradict Himself in this way. That’s why, any kind of private revelation, feeling or discernment needs to be tested against the teachings of the Church, as John writes: “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world…” (1 John 4:1, RSV)

God bless.

Jonathan
Click to expand...
^This^

It’s hard to have to tell someone who has been raised in the “follow your feelings” culture that feelings aren’t facts. And we don’t want to disparage emotions to an extreme; they too were given to us by God. But they must be subordinate to the will, which in turn must submit itself to God’s will as conveyed through the teachings of the Church He established.
 
Carina20 said:
The Holy Spirit cannot ‘override’ what’s revealed in Scripture. The two cannot contradict. If someone thinks God is calling them to do something that Scripture says they can’t do, then it’s not God telling them to do it.
Click to expand...
👍
 
Daizies said:
The important question is how can we tell if a message/desire is from the Holy Spirit or not? Many people have believed they had a calling from God, which turned out not to be. I’m sure Martin Luther believed he was led by God to start the “reformation.” Because I have spent a number of years in Pentecostal Churches “led by the Spirit” and have seen various endeavors crash and burn, I am a little more skeptical about people who claim to be led by the Holy Spirit.

So what it comes down to, is there any objective method by which we can determine if a calling or desire is from the Holy Spirit, and not our own desires or worse? Well, we know from scripture that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and we know that God does not contradict Himself, and will not lead us into sin. So where does that leave us? Well, if we believe this to be true, then we know that God, in the person of the Holy Spirit, will never lead us to act in a way contrary to His revealed truth: namely Holy Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

So, if anyone is claiming to be led by God, but is going against what we know from the Church to be true, it is safe to conclude that this “calling” is false. Not to say that the person is being deliberately evil, but rather that they are likely being deceived, either by their own desires or some other source.
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I would like to thank you for this answer I thought I may have missed something and this explains to me what I missed:o.

I think this has turned into a debate on weather women are allowed to be priests and I would like to say that I fully agree with the idea of male priests only and I think I may have missed titled this thread, but this has been interesting reading and I welcome any other comments.🙂
 
Miss_Primrose said:
I read the other day that women can and should be allowed to become Priests because they feel that they are inspired by the Holy Spirit and that the Holy Spirit over rides the Holy Scripture as the Holy Spirit comes straight from God and not from the written inspired word of God that was written such a long time ago. I would love to hear what people think to this as I admit that it did make me think, How can we ignore God in the form of the Holy Spirit supposely from now the present and then use something inspired by God that was from so many years ago?

Are we jusified in sticking with scripture and Tradition over the Holy Spirit?:confused:

I am speaking about what I heard and not from personal belief but I wondered what everyone thought because it has made me think, is this wise to ignore? but then again I could have missed something vital which I haven’t considered:D.
Click to expand...
Emphasis added. They feel that they are inspired by the Holy Spirit, but are they? Feelings can be wrong. Let’s examine:

God can’t contradict Himself - God is Truth and is Truth cannot contradict Truth. Christ is the Word, the Logos, the Truth - the truth that God reveals is Himself.

So to say that God can override what He has revealed is to say that God can override God, which makes no sense. If somehow God were to override God, then the new overridden version would have been what was revealed in the first place (God outside of time and all that) and so we wouldn’t notice.

So God cannot override the truths He’s revealed in Holy Scripture - not because of any limitation on God, but because it’s square circle, an absurdity. A non-infallible interpretation of scripture could be shown to be wrong, but the Church is guided by God in its interpretation as well, and has been pretty clear that this interpretation is not up for revision.

So this feeling must be mistaken.

And we aren’t sticking with Scripture and Tradition over the Holy Spirit. We are sticking with Scripture and Tradition with the Holy spirit, and over some people’s feelings.
 
Jesus is Male & the Bridegroom.

Church is Female & Bride.

Priest is “in persona Christi” (In the person of Christ).

Thus, Priests can not be female because they are in the male role.

It’s not discrimination anymore than a male being forced to participate and live in a female Church (the bride of Christ).
 
Hey… whats the need for ?
We have Mother Mary for we and thee. Is she not enuf?

Christ was fully man, fully male. All Apostles & Bishops ever since must by definition be men. Did the 11, when Judas was lost, ask ( or even consider ) Mary to take his place ?

Not gonna happen …then, now, or ever !!
 
GWright said:
The model of what represents Christian ministry was created by Jesus Christ, not by “the Church” or by any Pope.

We must strive to be faithful to Christ in all ways, which includes the structure of the Church he gave us.

In 1994, Pope John Paul II infallibly declared that the Church had no authority to ordain women as priests - it must stick to the model given to it by Christ Himself.

It is interesting to note that, Churches which have felt they knew better than Jesus - and ordained women on their own authority - have declined markedly and will not be around for too much longer (maybe a few more decades at best).

Regarding the point about “ignoring the Holy Spirit” - I dont think we are doing that, to be honest. Rather, I think the women who claim the Holy Spirit is calling them to the priesthood are either mistaken or are lieing*.

Like the Catholic Church, the Holy Spirit does not contradict Jesus Christ.

(*I dont like accussing people of lieing, but its a well know fact that many feminists resent the priesthood, for no good reason other than they cannot be part of it).
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Your last point is well taken. Feminists reject and hate the male-dominated world of their imagining and wish to overthrow the patriarchy, including those men “at the top” in the Church. They are driven by their egos, lust for power and things being equal - all of it is an offense to any rational meaning of the word equal.

This opens the door to all sorts of forced irrationality. When everyone is neither male or female, rich or poor, of a combination of all skin colors, and represented equally in every part of human society, then and only then, will everything that makes us human be twisted together and they could consider shutting up, but then, they’d have nothing better to do.

I read an article that included a statement from the head of a Michigan-based women’s business group where she lamented the fact that most businesses were not yet run by women. Equality? I don’t think so. Not if your goal is to “overthrow the patriarchy.”

Power and control. Power and control.

Peace,
Ed
 
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