Women Proposing Marriage

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CrystalMayner66

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I fully support women proposing marriage as a moral choice for couples.

Personally, if I was seriously dating a man, I would certainly be willing to propose if I felt the time had come for engagement. As a child, I always imagined being the one to propose. It is consistent with my personality, and I believe any man I would be at the brink of engagement with, would be accepting of my personality, or we would not be at the brink of engagement. Granted, if he simply preferred to propose, and he told me that, I would respect it, and not be offended.

I think ultimately the decision of who proposes is something the individual couple makes based on their own preference, and I realize most couples prefer the man to propose, but I also believe there is nothing immoral about a woman proposing.

Thoughts?
 
CrystalMayner66 said:
I fully support women proposing marriage as a moral choice for couples.

Personally, if I was seriously dating a man, I would certainly be willing to propose if I felt the time had come for engagement. As a child, I always imagined being the one to propose. It is consistent with my personality, and I believe any man I would be at the brink of engagement with, would be accepting of my personality, or we would not be at the brink of engagement. Granted, if he simply preferred to propose, and he told me that, I would respect it, and not be offended.

I think ultimately the decision of who proposes is something the individual couple makes based on their own preference, and I realize most couples prefer the man to propose, but I also believe there is nothing immoral about a woman proposing.

Thoughts?
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I don’t think it’s immoral nor is it new.

After all, Queen Victoria proposed to Prince Albert.
 
A lot of couples, if not most, discuss the prospect of marriage before there is a proposal. It is a topic they ease into, rather than pretending that the thought just dropped from the sky one day.
 
EasterJoy said:
A lot of couples, if not most, discuss the prospect of marriage before there is a proposal. It is a topic they ease into, rather than pretending that the thought just dropped from the sky one day.
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Yes, this is a must have-conversation before the proposal in my view.
 
My personal opinion is that the man should propose. That’s just how I feel about it.

There’s not anything immoral about the woman proposing though.

In any case, when I proposed to my wife, I had a pretty good idea what the answer would be. We’d talked about marriage and both were on the same page in that area.
 
I told my future husband if he wanted to get married, we could, and if he didn’t want to he should say so, so I could figure out other options for my life. He said he’d be pleased to marry me. He did an “official proposal” later that we planned. We picked out the ring together. I don’t like surprises and if he or any other guy had just shown up with a ring and popped the question I would have been so rattled, I probably would have said no.

Edited to add, this was my preference but if someone else would rather be surprised, I don’t object to that. I also don’t think it’s a “moral choice” one way or the other.
 
The modern Western “proposal” ritual, of a man “popping the question”, has absolutely nothing to do with Catholicism…its a morally neutral “ritual” not regulated by the Church in anyway whatsoever. So why would the question of morality even be raised?
 
twf said:
The modern Western “proposal” ritual, of a man “popping the question”, has absolutely nothing to do with Catholicism…its a morally neutral “ritual” not regulated by the Church in anyway whatsoever. So why would the question of morality even be raised?
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I have heard numerous Catholics and Christians claim a woman proposing violates Biblical gender mandated roles (husband initiator, leader and provider; wife submissive, heart and nurturer).
 
CrystalMayner66 said:
I have heard numerous Catholics and Christians claim a woman proposing violates Biblical gender mandated roles (husband initiator, leader and provider; wife submissive, heart and nurturer).
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:rolleyes: I know, there are those people fixated on what they think should fit in the box and if it doesn’t, it’s sinful or unBiblicial, or against Catholic teaching. :rolleyes:

We’ve become accustomed to the marketable idea of a man spending thousands on an engagement ring and going all out to make a proposal and it to appear as though nothing had been discussed ahead of time with regards to making a life-long commitment. That ideal has guided many a nostalgic daydreamer and served the diamond industry well, but does nothing for the communication that must be there and be effective and mutual for a marriage to succeed. Of course, that’s not to say that a romantic, surprise proposal cannot lead to a life-long marriage, but to claim it violates gender roles is ridiculous and shows a profound lack of theological understanding.
 
CrystalMayner66 said:
I have heard numerous Catholics and Christians claim a woman proposing violates Biblical gender mandated roles (husband initiator, leader and provider; wife submissive, heart and nurturer).
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I don’t buy this view, but I would not have married/proposed to a man who would not have been willing to propose himself within a reasonable time frame. IMO, proposing (even when marriage has already been discussed, as it should be) involves a certain willingness to be vulnerable. Women tend to be willing to share feelings and thoughts, men perhaps not so much. Asking confirms, “Yes, this is what I want, and I want it with you, if you’re willing.”

If a woman’s sitting around waiting on a proposal, she could ask him herself, but (also IMO) a man who lacks initiative on asking a question may also lack initiative to help out when the going gets rough, as it will, eventually, in any marriage.

So far, I have three sons (we’ll see about kid #4 in a couple weeks) and my husband and I plan on teaching them to not sit back and let a woman do all the planning or work on the relationship. It’s a two-person job.
 
pensmama87 said:
I don’t buy this view, but I would not have married/proposed to a man who would not have been willing to propose himself within a reasonable time frame. IMO, proposing (even when marriage has already been discussed, as it should be) involves a certain willingness to be vulnerable. Women tend to be willing to share feelings and thoughts, men perhaps not so much. Asking confirms, “Yes, this is what I want, and I want it with you, if you’re willing.”

If a woman’s sitting around waiting on a proposal, she could ask him herself, but (also IMO) a man who lacks initiative on asking a question may also lack initiative to help out when the going gets rough, as it will, eventually, in any marriage.

So far, I have three sons (we’ll see about kid #4 in a couple weeks) and my husband and I plan on teaching them to not sit back and let a woman do all the planning or work on the relationship. It’s a two-person job.
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I tend to agree with this. I don’t see anything wrong with a woman bringing the topic or saying something like ‘I do hope to eventually be married and I need to know if you feel the same way about me or if I should move on.’ I feel sorry for the woman who can not speak up in a relationship.

However, I also think it is very easy to get into a situation where the woman does all the work and the man sits back and rests on his laurels. For that reason, I think the official proposal should come from the man. It teaches the woman patience and the man to take action.

In an ideal situation, the woman should know it is coming soon. She might not know the exact time or place or manner in which he proposes, but it kills me when I see these woman who say ‘I had no idea it was coming’. I never believe it
 
Most I know, that couples sometimes discuss it as and then as a formality, the man proposes but I think it rather ought to be a surprise for the lucky lady and that a man proposing is the chivalrous thing to do.

With that said, I don’t really care. Nothing is immoral about a woman proposing, and as another said, Victoria proposed.
 
Sarcelle said:
I don’t think it’s immoral nor is it new.

After all, Queen Victoria proposed to Prince Albert.
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True, but I suspect many “complementarians” would reply “that’s an exception that proves the rule” as Victoria was a reigning Queen and certainly outranked Albert, the second son of a Duke who presided over a very tiny duchy in what eventually became Germany.

And while I got the sense Victoria was madly in love with him, at least in the beginning his affections for her were much more muted, and I’m not sure he’d have proposed to her himself, even if their positions had been reversed.

(But this is the impression I got from the “Victoria and Albert” TV movie, and I realize that might not be totally accurate.)

I agree with those who have pointed out that in most cases a couple knows they are headed toward marriage and the formal proposal is just that, a formality. Much as “asking for the bride’s father’s blessing” is a formality in many cultures. There are also cultures where arranged marriage is still common, where even a couple that chooses each other is expected to go through a formal arranged marriage process anyway.

I really can’t see myself proposing to a man, but that’s more because I’m pretty shy and introverted, than because I have any moral qualms about women doing that in general.
 
Those people who are into the Biblical concept of “submissive women” never seem to mention Jael and Judith who were out killing the enemies of Israel. They cherry pick stuff that supports their view of the world. I ignore it.
 
ToeInTheWater said:
True, but I suspect many “complementarians” would reply “that’s an exception that proves the rule” as Victoria was a reigning Queen and certainly outranked Albert, the second son of a Duke who presided over a very tiny duchy in what eventually became Germany.

And while I got the sense Victoria was madly in love with him, at least in the beginning his affections for her were much more muted, and I’m not sure he’d have proposed to her himself, even if their positions had been reversed.

(But this is the impression I got from the “Victoria and Albert” TV movie, and I realize that might not be totally accurate.)

I agree with those who have pointed out that in most cases a couple knows they are headed toward marriage and the formal proposal is just that, a formality. Much as “asking for the bride’s father’s blessing” is a formality in many cultures. There are also cultures where arranged marriage is still common, where even a couple that chooses each other is expected to go through a formal arranged marriage process anyway.

I really can’t see myself proposing to a man, but that’s more because I’m pretty shy and introverted, than because I have any moral qualms about women doing that in general.
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There is nothing in Catholic doctrine that says women should not propose. These complementarians who believe women should always be in a passive role are infected by the ideas of the Reformed Baptists who view women as perpetual minors.
 
Sarcelle said:
There is nothing in Catholic doctrine that says women should not propose. These complementarians who believe women should always be in a passive role are infected by the ideas of the Reformed Baptists who view women as perpetual minors.
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Actually, go far back enough and I can find a Gnostic connexion to that viewpoint.
 
No. Just no. It’s not a matter of morality. My husband’s proposal is one of the most romantic, special memories I’ll ever have. It was the perfect capstone to all of the conversations about marriage and family we had leading up to it.

Life doesn’t grant you many occasions like that, cherish them.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Those people who are into the Biblical concept of “submissive women” never seem to mention Jael and Judith who were out killing the enemies of Israel. They cherry pick stuff that supports their view of the world. I ignore it.
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Yep. For many people on this forum, I’ve found that 1950s America equals the “Christian ideal”. It’s very sad and limiting.
 
Sarcelle said:
There is nothing in Catholic doctrine that says women should not propose. These complementarians who believe women should always be in a passive role are infected by the ideas of the Reformed Baptists who view women as perpetual minors.
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There are some posters on this forum who insist the 1950s was just shy of a Christian utopia. When confronted with primary sources from the era demonstrating how widespread a belief it was that a man should slap or spank his disobedient wife from time to time, there was only silence. One thing I’ve learned on this forum is how far the aspects of conservative Protestantism has seeped into conservative American Catholicism. The Catholic tradition is ignored in favour of an American Protestant tradition… the same tradition that despised our Catholic forefathers with a burning passion.
 
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