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DaveEucharist
Guest
I missed a word in my first sentence.
You stated “she should decide on one or the other”. Is it easier for you (or anyone) to say that to her rather than me, because she is female?
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You stated “she should decide on one or the other”. Is it easier for you (or anyone) to say that to her rather than me, because she is female?
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AnneElizabeth
Guest
Still a bit confused here, let me try to first reiterate what I meant by “she should decide on one or the other.”
I meant by that is, she should herself decide if she wants a family or a career and choose one or the other. I guess what I’m reading into what you say is that you thought I meant she is to choose you or her career? If so, you both can remain friends and should do so, so as long as there is no strong temptations that need to be avoided.
If this is not what you meant, could you rearrange your sentence… I’m sorry I’m a bit daft tonight- long day.
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DaveEucharist
Guest
It’s OK. I understand.
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DaveEucharist
Guest
The extent we want our careers (or rather, lives in medicine/neurosurgery) most likely requires us to decide between career OR family. So, it is an either/or issue not both/and.
So…my question is…
Why, in your initial message, did you state “she should herself decide if she wants a family or a career and choose one or the other”
Why mention her first? Why not me? Is it easier for you to suggest that she give it up all up rather than me? If so, why?
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thewanderer
Guest
Just to warn you, while this is not at all a teaching of the Church, you will unfortunately find people who will speak of women as though they must stay home and obey everything there husband says etc. This is not at all true of all Catholics, and as far as I can tell it is not even true of most, but I just wanted to warn you so that when you see people speaking this way you can try to remember to distinguish them and their opinoins from what the Church herself actually teaches.
I’ll be honest and say that I think it is generally better for the woman rather than the man to stay at home if one will, but that is simply because in my experience the women I know tend to have more of a desire to spend that kind of time and live that kind of life than the men. So it is not at all out of some sort of sexist idea that women belong in the home, but rather that from my experience this is more often what is best for the family, although I would never try to impose that on any particular woman and have no problem with women entering a demanding career. I guess I’m kind of rambling now…
Just be aware that even if you run into judgemental or sexist-seeming ideas among certain Catholics it is not the opinoin of the Church, and ultimately it is only what the Church teaches that matters, not the particular opinions of any of its members.God Bless.
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Corki
Guest
You are making the wrong comparison. It isn’t about what is “appealing”. It’s about discerning vocation.
Our** primary **duty is to discern our vocation – married, single or religious. This doesn’t mean it happens first but it is the first priority.
If you discern that marriage is your vocation, you make sacrifices and compromises to fit your career into your vocation - not the other way around.
If you discern that marriage is your vocation and you promise before God to welcome children lovingly as fruits of the marriage, you make adjustments to your career to ensure that you fulfill that promise. Now that does not mean that all wives must be SAHMs. But a wife **or a husband **that put career before family would be a sad example.
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Veronica97
Guest
Dave, I don’t think it’s “either or” for every Catholic woman. I think a lot depends upon the personality of the woman. There are some very “high energy”, driven women. A woman like this could be a neurosurgeon and still have energy to play with her kids on weekends, especially since she could afford household help and she wouldn’t have to cook and clean if she didn’t want to. Likely she would be carefully practicing NFP (or not have much time for relations!) and would have perhaps 2 or 3 children, not 7 or 8! Another woman might be equally “high energy” and driven, but perhaps in another direction. This would be the type of woman who would have 6 children, homeschool them, and still have energy to knit blankets for babies at the local hospital and volunteer to play organ at the church. Then you have women who are more easily stressed, such as myself. I went to college to be a teacher but found that I could not handle the stress of teaching after I married and had just one child! I stayed home with my son for two years and then worked part-time as a teacher’s aide or as a tutor for most of his school years. My plate felt full with only one child and a part-time job (although I wish I had put more trust in God but that’s another story for another time). Now that my son is grown (but still living at home) my circumstances have changed and I no longer work outside the home. At this point, I couldn’t care less about having a career, and if I could do my life over, I’d have skipped college and had more kids. What I’m saying is, all women are different. Some may have to give up career in order to marry and have a family, others will only need to delay the career (or family) for a time, and others may choose to stay single in order to devote their lives to a career. Also, just b/c a woman has children or stays home, doesn’t mean she can’t carry on an intelligent conversation or enjoy the opera!
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DaveEucharist
Guest
We are both used to household help now. We do not live together but in nearby apartment home buildings that include housekeeping staff. This lead to a few conversations on how busy our lives (even if we don’t continue a relationship to and through marriage) will be and how we would need help.
If she (or us) were to live a life you described: NFP, 1-2 children (even with salaries in the seven digits), would certain more “traditional large family” Catholic people look down on us. We shouldn’t judge, I try not to…Will we be not good Catholics. I’ll try not to care, considering I don’t even involve myself in Parish life…I just attend Mass, Adoration etc. This lack of involvement may be because I am a convert and was not raised Catholic so certain cultures with Catholicism shock me (homeschooled large families, women wearing veils, etc). But, to each his/her own…after all this is a Universal Church.
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AnneElizabeth
Guest
Simply because SHE will be the one who is pregnant if you as a couple decide to have a family.
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AnneElizabeth
Guest
I really hardly think any Catholic, traditional or not, would “look down on you” for having only 1 or 2 children. If anyone would, then that is their problem, not yours, so as long as you knew you were being responsible in that matter to the Lord.
Galatians 1:10 “Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.”
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mommamaree
Guest
Sure! No problem.
I never thought, while in college, that I would be the SAHM type. My PhD would have been in biochemistry, had I stayed to complete it. But I looked around at the life I was heading toward, which would continue to exclude husband and family, and I just knew. My husband and I went on a holiday trip and had some long talks about what we wanted as a couple (we were not Catholic at that time and did use ABC). Because the extreme lifestyle of a PhD chemist excluded other good things such as leisure time with husband, and sometimes did not allow for living together, and mostly excluded children until late 30s if ever, I immediately saw that the desires that God placed deep in my heart to be a wife and mother were about to slip away. I left the program in good standing and could have gone back, not that I ever will at this point. I resumed my teaching post at a local private Episcopal school and just over a year later, was delighted to discover I was expecting my first child. Now, with my oldest 7yo, I am expecting my fourth child (albeit with a couple of miscarriages, too). Believe me, no one has a large family casually, despite your youthful observations that you stated earlier.
Yes, life involves difficult decisions and sometimes heart-wrenching sacrifices. But the reality is, God wants us to be happy. Our happiness is not based on our lot in this life, but only in our relationship with him. This is why discernment of a vocation is such an important prayerful process as you come of age. We find the most joy, as fully human beings, when we prayerfully undertake to fulfill the vocation that God is leading us toward.
I am not a PhD chemist or professor, like I had envisioned I would be by now. Instead, I have something far more wonderful. My job is not to be one little part of thousands of college students educations, whom they quickly forget at the end of a semester. Instead, I get to be everything to five people, my husband, my three born children, and the little baby on-the-way. I didn’t know life would turn out this way, but I just followed the desires God had hidden deep in my heart, and I am so glad my initial expectations were all wrong.
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Contra_Mundum_1
Guest
I simply can’t believe the tone of the OP’s post. 
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mommamaree
Guest
He is trying. If you read the whole thread, you will see he is sincere and meaning no offense. He just has some misconceptions.I simply can’t believe the tone of this post.
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mommamaree
Guest
You mentioned feeling like you could not be attracted to a woman who wants to be a SAHM, and that is one point I had wanted to address. Remember that choosing to stay home has nothing at all to do with intelligence. Not all career women are bright and interesting and not all SAHMs are dull and boring! That is unfair stereotyping. 
Many people in my family do not understand why I made the choices I made, because I “could have done so much” with my life.
But I employ every ounce of my intellect to make me staying at home possible. I am a good home manager because I am smart. I am always learning new things and working on developing new skills. And I bet many homemakers would say the same things. Also, I love philosophy and theology, science and reading, and these are the things that I talk to my husband about. Sure we have home management or parenting discussions, too, but we spend hours enjoying debating and also music and movies and books, etc.
So, if you and your girlfriend discern marriage with each other, and maybe she wants to stay home for a period of time to care for your children, don’t fear a life of boredom or dullness. Or if you marry someone who wants to be a SAHM full-time, don’t worry. But even more important, don’t discount SAHMs you might encounter as not friendship material or worth talking to. You could learn a lot about marriage and parenthood is you talk with them and have the mind that they could teach you something.
Many people in my family do not understand why I made the choices I made, because I “could have done so much” with my life.
But I employ every ounce of my intellect to make me staying at home possible. I am a good home manager because I am smart. I am always learning new things and working on developing new skills. And I bet many homemakers would say the same things. Also, I love philosophy and theology, science and reading, and these are the things that I talk to my husband about. Sure we have home management or parenting discussions, too, but we spend hours enjoying debating and also music and movies and books, etc.
So, if you and your girlfriend discern marriage with each other, and maybe she wants to stay home for a period of time to care for your children, don’t fear a life of boredom or dullness. Or if you marry someone who wants to be a SAHM full-time, don’t worry. But even more important, don’t discount SAHMs you might encounter as not friendship material or worth talking to. You could learn a lot about marriage and parenthood is you talk with them and have the mind that they could teach you something.
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DaveEucharist
Guest
Thank you. I may have fallen into that stereotype, even being unconscious of it. I supposed to had a view that SAHM, SAHM-types were boring people.You mentioned feeling like you could not be attracted to a woman who wants to be a SAHM, and that is one point I had wanted to address. Remember that choosing to stay home has nothing at all to do with intelligence.** Not all career women are bright and interesting and not all SAHMs are dull and boring! That is unfair stereotyping.
Many people in my family do not understand why I made the choices I made, because I “could have done so much” with my life.
But I employ every ounce of my intellect to make me staying at home possible. I am a good home manager because I am smart. I am always learning new things and working on developing new skills. And I bet many homemakers would say the same things. Also, I love philosophy and theology, science and reading, and these are the things that I talk to my husband about. Sure we have home management or parenting discussions, too, but we spend hours enjoying debating and also music and movies and books, etc.
So, if you and your girlfriend discern marriage with each other, and maybe she wants to stay home for a period of time to care for your children, don’t fear a life of boredom or dullness. Or if you marry someone who wants to be a SAHM full-time, don’t worry. But even more important, don’t discount SAHMs you might encounter as not friendship material or worth talking to. You could learn a lot about marriage and parenthood is you talk with them and have the mind that they could teach you something.
I don’t like children but I enjoy her company, and in general the company of a close female companion. I’m not sure what I will end up doing. Time will tell. M
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LightBound
Guest
Saint Gianna Beretta Molla- wife, mother, medical doctor. Still had an active medical practice after having 3 of her 4 children.
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Rence
Guest
Part of your problem is that you don’t know Catholic teaching. The Church does not teach that women have to be SAHMs. That is simply a choice for women, regardless of whether they are Catholic or not.
The Church does not dictate how many children a family should or should not have. The only dictate they demand is that a married couple is to be ‘open to life’, are not allowed to use artificial birth control, and that if there is a need for them to limit the number of children or postpone a pregnancy, that they use natural family planning (not to be confused with the old rythmn method). There is no set number of children a Catholic couple has to have. Some families are perfectly capable of raising 4, 5, 6, 10 children, and others would not be able to and with various reasons.
Catholic “women like her” have many options and are certainly as capable as any other woman to have rewarding careers and a family. Living by someone else’s standards isn’t going to make anyone happy. The Church does not discourage women from having high profile careers, or having more children than one can care for (mentally, emotionally, spiritually, physically, monetarily, etc.). You are not doomed. There are many women out there in the real world. Some of them will want to be SAHMs and some of them will want to work outside the home. I don’t understand why this is such a problem for you, but blaming the Church for something it doesn’t teach isn’t going to help you. You should probably talk to a good priest about your concerns.
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Gertabelle
Guest
:clapping:
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homeschoolSAHD
Guest
Don’t believe the stereotype that women cannot pursue careers because they get pregnant. My wife contributes to the research in her field with the publications that are accepted to journals and the development of future students with the chapters in college text’s she’s invited to write. Her students are accepted to excellent programs.
Pregnancy isn’t debilitating. My wife earned straight A’s in her undergraduate work. And, continued her straight A streak through graduate school even with two pregnancies bringing our first two children into the world. She’s still the exceptional scholar/researcher she is even when she is pregnant and her publications have not dropped off with two additional pregnancies.
But, what’s more important is what you are being called to as a vocation.
When we got married, we didn’t plan on having any kids. During grad school we changed our minds and had two and during which I decided to postpone my education and found I enjoyed staying home with the kids. While my wife was earning tenure, we continued to have another and added another post tenure.
Be open to God’s will and you both will be rewarded whether with children or contributing to your chosen fields whether you’re called to married or not.
Pregnancy isn’t debilitating. My wife earned straight A’s in her undergraduate work. And, continued her straight A streak through graduate school even with two pregnancies bringing our first two children into the world. She’s still the exceptional scholar/researcher she is even when she is pregnant and her publications have not dropped off with two additional pregnancies.
But, what’s more important is what you are being called to as a vocation.
When we got married, we didn’t plan on having any kids. During grad school we changed our minds and had two and during which I decided to postpone my education and found I enjoyed staying home with the kids. While my wife was earning tenure, we continued to have another and added another post tenure.
Be open to God’s will and you both will be rewarded whether with children or contributing to your chosen fields whether you’re called to married or not.
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DaveEucharist
Guest
If I marry her (or someone like her) and we decide to devote our lives to the advancement of our scientific/medical fields in the way I described and have 1-2 children, is that “selfish”?
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