Women should appreciate masculine virtues

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“There is a kind of hardness between us. Both men and women largely feel that the other has let them down. Sadly, in many respects, both are right.”

Women should appreciate masculine virtues by Rachel Lu

Despite the illustration, I don’t think she’s talking about boys playing croquet. Maybe she’s calling for a truce in the war of the sexes.
 
I sometimes think us women don’t know what we want in men. I know I have been guilty of lamenting the lack of “decent men”. Maybe it’s time for a dialogue.
 
This is hysterical. “Men are strong, natural leaders with sharp instincts. But women must tiptoe around them lest any indication that they aren’t totally superior in every possible way breaks through and sends them into an irreversible downward spiral of underachievement”.

I think the “battle of the sexes” is largely a figment of the internet’s imagination - on both sides. Do most people really have a problem with the members of the opposite sex in their own lives?

For what it’s worth, every strong, high-achieving man I know performs the same whether women are involved or not.
 
BlueEyedLady said:
This is hysterical. “Men are strong, natural leaders with sharp instincts. But women must tiptoe around them lest any indication that they aren’t totally superior in every possible way breaks through and sends them into an irreversible downward spiral of underachievement”.

I think the “battle of the sexes” is largely a figment of the internet’s imagination - on both sides. Do most people really have a problem with the members of the opposite sex in their own lives?

For what it’s worth, every strong, high-achieving man I know performs the same whether women are involved or not.
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Agreed. It shouldn’t change anything.
 
This type of thing really irritates me:

“Men tend to feel that their honor is restored when they are able to bestow a favor that they know is appreciated. Often, though, we have to set the stage a little, arranging opportunities for them to serve us, and allowing ourselves to be impressed.”

I hate the idea of having to coddle and provide little situations for my husband to prove he’s a man. I don’t want to treat my husband a certain way because he’s a man, I want to treat him a certain way because I know that’s how he likes to be treated because I know what kind of person he is. And he knows what kind of person I am. Generalities about “how men are” and “how women are” just serve to divide the sexes.
 
Lookingforjoy said:
This type of thing really irritates me:

“Men tend to feel that their honor is restored when they are able to bestow a favor that they know is appreciated. Often, though, we have to set the stage a little, arranging opportunities for them to serve us, and allowing ourselves to be impressed.”
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Awww–mommy’s widdle man is such a good helper! Let mommy give her widdle man a kiss!

Ewww.
 
I thought it was a decent enough article-well intended.

There were some issues though such as the example of the wife cleaning the husbands recreational room -why wasn’t he cleaning itself?He’s an adult not a child.

I think she probably also does generalise a bit too much about gender roles.
For example a women can be a strong leader (Margaret Thatcher,Kolinda Grabar-Kitarovic for example) and can also be capable/strong (such as Olympians).

I don’t agree that only boys should be encouraged to be Alter"boys".Where I am it is both boys and girls.Perhaps though she is in a place where there are no boys doing it so I could see why she would put the focus on boys.

The “setting up situations” bit-is she suggesting we should do the “damsel in distress” thing like pretend to drop our shopping so a guy will help us lol or pretend we don’t know something at the hardware store when really we do?

I think part of the reason why she might have receive criticism or misinterpretation at her article might be because people didn’t get the “background story” of where she was coming from.
Ie:She should have started off by stating that her perspective is due to her being a mother of four boys,and being in an area where boys/men don’t want to attend Church or become alterboys etc…and then maybe (hopefully) she might have receive more positive response.
IOW she should have been a bit more measured.
 
I agree with Lookingforjoy. Most men don’t need to “prove” to their wives that they are men. Also…I’m an adult. I don’t need my wife to “set up” opportunities for me. I have initiative. I know when stuff needs to be done. I know my wife appreciates it. The article does seem a little patronising.
 
I’m a bit cynical about setting up situations, wouldn’t that just encourage them to become even more dependent on you to manage their emotions? I do try and show appreciation when my husband helps out but it’s not my job to house train him.
 
I was quite “ehh” on certain parts of the article.

*First, they can train themselves not to see every male-oriented accomplishment or opportunity as a sign of patriarchal tyranny or “male privilege.” At times, it is reasonable for women to petition for inclusion in traditionally male activities. * --I can agree with the first statement, but the second statement kind of seems…I don’t know off. If a woman is just as good in something and wants to join, say, a soccer team. She should. If a guy is just as great in some “typically feminine” activity, he should be included. That’s just my opinion. She might be implying the same thing, but maybe the way how she phrased it kind of ticked me off.

I do agree with her point about accepting chivalry. Any decent human should just say “thanks” if someone decides to do a nice deed IMO (if the person is not trying to be patronizing)

I personally hate it when people talk about gender roles (like she had, not in this article), maybe because I could have the mind of a guy, or that society’s understanding of gender is false.

I wanted to be an altar girl but only boys are allowed in my country so I remember throwing a hissy fit and becoming a lector. But then I hated that so I decided to just sit at the back of the church alone every Sunday (still do, but I like it). I can understand why she received criticism.

My unpopular opinion:

Nobody is getting it right.

Secular society wants to pretend that there are 0 difference between the sexes. They themselves are confused and they subconsciously try to enforce gender roles (like a strong woman HAS to be really assertive, bold, have some sort of sexual allure to her, etc etc. For guys…well I still think they are confused)

For religious people (usually evangelicals, but in this case, some catholics), believe that a guy’s masculinity is soo fragile that snapping at him once/if you don’t ask him for his help, will have him question his manhood or anything like that. I always read stuff from them and there is this underlying implication that masculinity is so fragile. I don’t know if it is, but from my brothers and guy friends, it’s not! They are comfortable with themselves and they are not phased by women who can move furniture by themselves (yes I’m exaggerating a bit, but then again, maybe I’m not) They also believe that women are so demure and gentle and beautiful etc. (Which makes people like me feel like Leo, not Lea) 🙂

Idk, I’m not the type that will dumb myself down to make someone feel better about themselves, of course, I’m quite ditzy so maybe I don’t need to try!

I’m rambling again but basically: women should appreciate men. men should appreciate women. How? I don’t know? But not by playing damsel in distress or encouraging false ideas of female “empowerment” (Eg: women not wearing anything is equivalent to high confidence these days. Looking through ‘body positivity’ tags kind of shows this way of thinking)
 
Lea101 said:
I was quite “ehh” on certain parts of the article.

*First, they can train themselves not to see every male-oriented accomplishment or opportunity as a sign of patriarchal tyranny or “male privilege.” At times, it is reasonable for women to petition for inclusion in traditionally male activities. * --I can agree with the first statement, but the second statement kind of seems…I don’t know off. If a woman is just as good in something and wants to join, say, a soccer team. She should. If a guy is just as great in some “typically feminine” activity, he should be included. That’s just my opinion. She might be implying the same thing, but maybe the way how she phrased it kind of ticked me off.

I do agree with her point about accepting chivalry. Any decent human should just say “thanks” if someone decides to do a nice deed IMO (if the person is not trying to be patronizing)

I personally hate it when people talk about gender roles (like she had, not in this article), maybe because I could have the mind of a guy, or that society’s understanding of gender is false.

I wanted to be an altar girl but only boys are allowed in my country so I remember throwing a hissy fit and becoming a lector. But then I hated that so I decided to just sit at the back of the church alone every Sunday (still do, but I like it). I can understand why she received criticism.

My unpopular opinion:

Nobody is getting it right.

Secular society wants to pretend that there are 0 difference between the sexes. They themselves are confused and they subconsciously try to enforce gender roles (like a strong woman HAS to be really assertive, bold, have some sort of sexual allure to her, etc etc. For guys…well I still think they are confused)

For religious people (usually evangelicals, but in this case, some catholics), believe that a guy’s masculinity is soo fragile that snapping at him once/if you don’t ask him for his help, will have him question his manhood or anything like that. I always read stuff from them and there is this underlying implication that masculinity is so fragile. I don’t know if it is, but from my brothers and guy friends, it’s not! They are comfortable with themselves and they are not phased by women who can move furniture by themselves (yes I’m exaggerating a bit, but then again, maybe I’m not) They also believe that women are so demure and gentle and beautiful etc. (Which makes people like me feel like Leo, not Lea) 🙂

Idk, I’m not the type that will dumb myself down to make someone feel better about themselves, of course, I’m quite ditzy so maybe I don’t need to try!

I’m rambling again but basically: women should appreciate men. men should appreciate women. How? I don’t know? But not by playing damsel in distress or encouraging false ideas of female “empowerment” (Eg: women not wearing anything is equivalent to high confidence these days. Looking through ‘body positivity’ tags kind of shows this way of thinking)
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I’m quite ditzy myself so I also don’t have to try to act dumb. I sometimes am dumb. Well, everyone has their moments.

I think acting dumb so someone else can feel good about themselves is condescending. Acting like yourself and treating others with respect is good. That goes for both men and women.

Anyway, I treat people I meet as individuals not as stereotypes.
 
Sarcelle said:
I’m quite ditzy myself so I also don’t have to try to act dumb. I sometimes am dumb. Well, everyone has their moments.

I think acting dumb so someone else can feel good about themselves is condescending. Acting like yourself and treating others with respect is good. That goes for both men and women.

Anyway, I treat people I meet as individuals not as stereotypes.
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Exactly! Everyone is so different. Stereotypes cause more harm than good.
 
Lea101 said:
I do agree with her point about accepting chivalry. Any decent human should just say “thanks” if someone decides to do a nice deed IMO (if the person is not trying to be patronizing)
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…but at the same time, if the offer makes her feel unsafe, she should feel totally free to smile and say no thank you!

For example, let’s say a guy you don’t know that well decides to “chivalrously” walk you to your car or house. If that idea makes you feel anxiously, little to that little voice in your head and don’t do it.
 
There is something to be said for letting your man be a man. I don’t want to push my husband around or get into silly competitions or power struggles. I definitely didn’t want to date or marry a man that I couldn’t look up to and even admire.

But one thing my mom and (much) older brother always tried to instill in me is the idea that I should find a man I respect, but I can’t hold myself back to do it. I would become resentful, and he would feel patronized.

Rather than setting up opportunities to be impressed, just find a man who is actually impressive. My husband impresses me every day with his intelligence, success, humor, and unwavering kindness. But it’s authentic, and that’s what I held out for. If I had made myself less so that just any man could catch my eye, I would have regretted it.
 
BlueEyedLady said:
There is something to be said for letting your man be a man. I don’t want to push my husband around or get into silly competitions or power struggles. I definitely didn’t want to date or marry a man that I couldn’t look up to and even admire.

But one thing my mom and (much) older brother always tried to instill in me is the idea that I should find a man I respect, but I can’t hold myself back to do it. I would become resentful, and he would feel patronized.

**Rather than setting up opportunities to be impressed, just find a man who is actually impressive. ** My husband impresses me every day with his intelligence, success, humor, and unwavering kindness. But it’s authentic, and that’s what I held out for. If I had made myself less so that just any man could catch my eye, I would have regretted it.
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Right.
 
Xantippe said:
…but at the same time, if the offer makes her feel unsafe, she should feel totally free to smile and say no thank you!

For example, let’s say a guy you don’t know that well decides to “chivalrously” walk you to your car or house. If that idea makes you feel anxiously, little to that little voice in your head and don’t do it.
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Ooh yes, I forgot about instances like that
 
I don’t personally know any men or women who generally view each other as natural adversaries because of gender. But I come from a generation in which nearly everyone I knew got married and stayed married. Now, divorce has become more popular and marriage less popular. One thing from the article that caught my attention is this:
“The saddest result of our increasingly fractious sex war is that young people seem to have inherited the dysfunction, and consequently, they are lonelier and less loved than any generation in recent history.” I wonder to what extent that is true.

I don’t usually read the comments below online articles. But I skimmed though some of the comments on this one. One from Phoebe said this:

“Men do not become men because women allow them to be. Men become men because they have fathers who model for them the proper role of men in families and society. It is impossible for women to do for men what only men can do for other males. Women need to get out of the way by the time their sons are ten years old and let the father now take over to teach his son how to become a man.
The problem with men not being men has little to do with anything women do or not do. It has to do with men being absent from families because of divorce, women raising boys to become good little girls, and women’s lib that has defined women’s role as for them to become more like men. It hasn’t worked. The remedy is to read St. Paul. …literally.”
 
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