Women should appreciate masculine virtues

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JimG said:
I don’t personally know any men or women who generally view each other as natural adversaries because of gender. But I come from a generation in which nearly everyone I knew got married and stayed married. Now, divorce has become more popular and marriage less popular. One thing from the article that caught my attention is this:
“The saddest result of our increasingly fractious sex war is that young people seem to have inherited the dysfunction, and consequently, they are lonelier and less loved than any generation in recent history.” I wonder to what extent that is true.
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The part I quoted and the whole article makes me think the point trying to be made is divorce is 100% due to women having rights. And that IMO is horrific.

It’s like BEL said. If men want to be admired, let them to something admirable. 50 years ago, women couldn’t do math. So men’s math skills were ‘impressive’. I am good at math so a man’s math skills actually do have to be impressive to get my attention. If anything, making men earn the respect (not protecting it by silly sexism rules) is much more complementary to men and does force them to be men.

Also, if there is one thing that irks me is parents (both mothers and fathers) who expect society to be one way solely due to their children’s gender. I would love for the author of the article to have a daughter and see if she still feels the same way. Would she really deprive her one daughter of an opportunity just to ‘protect’ her 4 boys self esteem:rolleyes:
 
Anglewannabe said:
The part I quoted and the whole article makes me think the point trying to be made is divorce is 100% due to women having rights. And that IMO is horrific.

It’s like BEL said. If men want to be admired, let them to something admirable. 50 years ago, women couldn’t do math. So men’s math skills were ‘impressive’. I am good at math so a man’s math skills actually do have to be impressive to get my attention. If anything, making men earn the respect (not protecting it by silly sexism rules) is much more complementary to men and does force them to be men.

Also, if there is one thing that irks me is parents (both mothers and fathers) who expect society to be one way solely due to their children’s gender. I would love for the author of the article to have a daughter and see if she still feels the same way. Would she really deprive her one daughter of an opportunity just to ‘protect’ her 4 boys self esteem:rolleyes:
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I quoted the part about young people seemingly “inheriting the dysfunction,” and consequently, being “lonelier and less loved than any generation in recent history” because it seemed to me quite sad if that is the case. And yet it does seem that marriage has fallen to new lows among the young.

I see nothing in the article which blames divorce “100% on women having rights.” I don’t think she even mentions divorce. It was me that mentioned divorce, in the context of the current low marriage rate. I’m sorry if that threw the thread off track.

Rachel Lu says that “boys, especially now, need particular attention. A society cannot thrive while denigrating manhood, and our culture is specially toxic to the moral development of men.”

I didn’t read her article as blaming women’s rights for that; she is just writing about how to raise boys well, and and with religion, and thinks that doing so benefits society. Early in the essay she says “Someone needs to extend an olive branch.” I don’t think she intended to start a war.

I expect that Ms. Lu, like most mothers, treats her kids as the individuals that they are. If she has some girls to add to the boys, I expect that she will treat the girls like girls and the boys like boys. (But I suspect that even saying that will turn out to be controversial.)
 
JimG said:
I quoted the part about young people seemingly “inheriting the dysfunction,” and consequently, being “lonelier and less loved than any generation in recent history” because it seemed to me quite sad if that is the case. And yet it does seem that marriage has fallen to new lows among the young.

I see nothing in the article which blames divorce “100% on women having rights.” I don’t think she even mentions divorce. It was me that mentioned divorce, in the context of the current low marriage rate. I’m sorry if that threw the thread off track.

Rachel Lu says that “boys, especially now, need particular attention. A society cannot thrive while denigrating manhood, and our culture is specially toxic to the moral development of men.”

I didn’t read her article as blaming women’s rights for that; she is just writing about how to raise boys well, and and with religion, and thinks that doing so benefits society. Early in the essay she says “Someone needs to extend an olive branch.” I don’t think she intended to start a war.

I expect that Ms. Lu, like most mothers, treats her kids as the individuals that they are. If she has some girls to add to the boys, I expect that she will treat the girls like girls and the boys like boys. (But I suspect that even saying that will turn out to be controversial.)
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The issue has nothing to do with “rights” and more with pushbacks.

The victim mentality ingrained causes a particularly negative mindset.

As the poster said the man’s math skills must be “impressive” however when predjudice enters the man could be Einstein and still he would just be a blowhard who doesn’t deserve respect. (Not always, but this world sees it much)

On the flip side the men who allow the victim mentality to creep in believe the above statement to an extreme and therefore devalue women and their opinions. And in some cases take an active role in being more sexist than anything any feminist ever fought against. Again predjudice.

Truth be told CAF isn’t the perfect demographic and I am amazed often how many articles are met with “I don’t see that”

What are the numbers in the secular world?? They destroy the numbers here. We could easily each read stuff that supports us and bury our head in the sand.

A woman can read feminist stuff and proclaim there is no man hate.

A man can read pro man stuff and proclaim there is no woman hate.

Both readers would generally be lying or foolish.

Then there are some articles that try to bridge the gap and they are either taken how soneone wants to or decried as hate if it isn’t easy enough to twist to their side.

Sure that Catholic men thingy about being a good father and husband is “pro man” and not hateful etc…

But to use that as an example of proman stuff in terms of the numbers would be a lie, when we speak of “society” we are talking of majority not subcultures even if the subculture is more “right”. Sadly carholic pro men is a subculture not the main.

And the same is true of the feminism stuff. Sure there is subculture that is okay, but to pretend the majority have anything to do with it is to lie to oneself or to lack mental ability.
 
I think we are overthinking things.

We all need Jesus to be the best version of ourselves. Jesus said if you lose yourself for my sake you will find yourself. This is true. If you give over yourself to Jesus, He will start the transformation within you to be the best version of yourself. Jesus will not stomp over your individuality. He will hand you back the best version of you.

What does this have to do with masculinity or femininity? Well, Christians think there is a cookie cutter version of masculinity or femininity out there. There isn’t. Masculinity and femininity are archetypes not stereotypes. We should all pursue holiness and the result is the best version of ourselves and it comes with our own version of masculinity and femininity.

Finally, the victim mentality is a combination of holding a grudge and self-pity. It does not do the bearer of this mentality any good.

Well, that’s my :twocents:. I know, not enough to buy a cup of :coffee:.
 
Sarcelle said:
I think we are overthinking things.

We all need Jesus to be the best version of ourselves. Jesus said if you lose yourself for my sake you will find yourself. This is true. If you give over yourself to Jesus, He will start the transformation within you to be the best version of yourself. Jesus will not stomp over your individuality. He will hand you back the best version of you.

What does this have to do with masculinity or femininity? Well, Christians think there is a cookie cutter version of masculinity or femininity out there. There isn’t. Masculinity and femininity are archetypes not stereotypes. We should all pursue holiness and the result is the best version of ourselves and it comes with our own version of masculinity and femininity.

Finally, the victim mentality is a combination of holding a grudge and self-pity. It does not do the bearer of this mentality any good.

Well, that’s my :twocents:. I know, not enough to buy a cup of :coffee:.
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I’d give you a cup of coffee for it 👍
 
JimG said:
I see nothing in the article which blames divorce “100% on women having rights.” I don’t think she even mentions divorce. It was me that mentioned divorce, in the context of the current low marriage rate. I’m sorry if that threw the thread off track.
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You need to see things from my perspective. Since your name is Jim, I am assuming you are a man. So when a MAN posts and article on how WOMEN should treat men better and then the MAN mentions the divorce rate is high, there is a strong insinuation that it is women’s rights movement that has caused high divorce.
JimG said:
Rachel Lu says that “boys, especially now, need particular attention. A society cannot thrive while denigrating manhood, and our culture is specially toxic to the moral development of men.”
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True but again, is you are a MAN and you are concerned about how young boys are being brought up, why not post an article written by a MAN that states, ‘we need to set a good example and quit going to the strippers and looking at pornography’

Men should blame men and women should blame women. If a woman had posted the link to this article, my views on her motive would have been different.

Especially since the article stated something to the effect that ‘For boys to be brought up properly, girl can not be alter servers’. huh? Girls need to take the back bench? Especially since I was an alter service in the 80s and NO ONE ever made it a gender issue in my town. I even remember being baffled every time we travelled out of the province to see that in other churches, alter service were always boys. I had no clue as to why
JimG said:
I expect that Ms. Lu, like most mothers, treats her kids as the individuals that they are. If she has some girls to add to the boys, I expect that she will treat the girls like girls and the boys like boys. (But I suspect that even saying that will turn out to be controversial.)
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Since she has no daughters, this is all hypothetical. But it doesn’t change the fact that if she has all boys, it could easily be seen as she had no concern for girls well beings
 
LethalMouse said:
As the poster said the man’s math skills must be “impressive” however when predjudice enters the man could be Einstein and still he would just be a blowhard who doesn’t deserve respect. (Not always, but this world sees it much)
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If a woman has impressive math skills, she would recognize the man’s impressive math skills. If the man really did have impressive math skills and a woman thinks he ‘is a blowhard’ then I would question the woman’s math skills
 
Anglewannabe said:
If a woman has impressive math skills, she would recognize the man’s impressive math skills. If the man really did have impressive math skills and a woman thinks he ‘is a blowhard’ then I would question the woman’s math skills
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Right.

It requires skill to recognize skill–or at least to fully appreciate it. (I can get that an Olympic gymnast is doing something hard with no particular special knowledge, but I would need to be a high-level gymnast myself to really understand and appreciate what is involved in a gold medal-winning performance.)

And back to the OP–perhaps it requires virtue to recognize virtue?
 
Anglewannabe said:
You need to see things from my perspective. Since your name is Jim, I am assuming you are a man. So when a MAN posts and article on how WOMEN should treat men better and then the MAN mentions the divorce rate is high, there is a strong insinuation that it is women’s rights movement that has caused high divorce.

True but again, is you are a MAN and you are concerned about how young boys are being brought up, why not post an article written by a MAN that states, ‘we need to set a good example and quit going to the strippers and looking at pornography’

Men should blame men and women should blame women. If a woman had posted the link to this article, my views on her motive would have been different.

Especially since the article stated something to the effect that ‘For boys to be brought up properly, girl can not be alter servers’. huh? Girls need to take the back bench? Especially since I was an alter service in the 80s and NO ONE ever made it a gender issue in my town. I even remember being baffled every time we travelled out of the province to see that in other churches, alter service were always boys. I had no clue as to why

Since she has no daughters, this is all hypothetical. But it doesn’t change the fact that if she has all boys, it could easily be seen as she had no concern for girls well beings
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Advocating for boy altar servers seems to be a pet project of the author. It is not an issue in any parish that I have been in. But part of her motivation seems to be that it is effective in instilling the Faith in boys and integrating them into the Church.

As for the larger picture, society as a whole thrives when families are strong and faith filled, and it suffers when families are weak, secular, and fatherless. It is not a good omen for the U.S. that 40% of children are borne out of marriage—a figure that rises to 70% in some urban areas. Nor is it good when federal programs seem to encourage fatherless families.

A few years back, Christina Hoff Somers published a book titled “The War Against Boys.” I don’t know if her concerns were the same as Rachel Lu’s, but it seems the idea is not new. A society whose basic unit is increasingly disintegrating can not be a stable society. Rachel Lu’s short article didn’t take on all that sociology, so I don’t want to overthink it or over interpret it. Her subject is more restricted. From her article again: “Who started this?” is the wrong question. It’s unanswerable, and it doesn’t matter anyway. Men and women need each other, so we both need to try to get up to snuff.”
 
Thankfully I don’t have this problem…

http://http://www.evilenglish.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/T-shirts-Peanuts-SNOOPY-Peanuts-Chicks-Dig-Me-T-Shirt-l.jpg

😃
 
Lookingforjoy said:
This type of thing really irritates me:

“Men tend to feel that their honor is restored when they are able to bestow a favor that they know is appreciated. Often, though, we have to set the stage a little, arranging opportunities for them to serve us, and allowing ourselves to be impressed.”

I hate the idea of having to coddle and provide little situations for my husband to prove he’s a man.
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I’m not sure the author meant to suggest that women actually fake being impressed by men, but the idea that we should “set the stage” does bring to mind my mother suggesting I let my father carry my suitcase for me on family trips - even though the last time he tried that, it didn’t go too well, a Good Samaritan had to help him. Or how she essentially forbids us from making any negative comments on the food that comes out of his barbecue (though it actually is usually decent).

Some of you may have missed my last topic but my father is a very unpleasant, often verbally abusive man and it doesn’t seem this strategy has done much to restore his “honor”.

That doesn’t mean women should be actively tearing men down, or that we should refuse kindly meant gestures such as holding a door open, but this idea that men need constantly ego-massaging in order to function, actually sounds quite disrespectful to them. And at least in my own personal experience, doesn’t work.
 
ToeInTheWater said:
I’m not sure the author meant to suggest that women actually fake being impressed by men, but the idea that we should “set the stage” does bring to mind my mother suggesting I let my father carry my suitcase for me on family trips - even though the last time he tried that, it didn’t go too well, a Good Samaritan had to help him. Or how she essentially forbids us from making any negative comments on the food that comes out of his barbecue (though it actually is usually decent).

Some of you may have missed my last topic but my father is a very unpleasant, often verbally abusive man and it doesn’t seem this strategy has done much to restore his “honor”.

That doesn’t mean women should be actively tearing men down, or that we should refuse kindly meant gestures such as holding a door open, but this idea that men need constantly ego-massaging in order to function, actually sounds quite disrespectful to them. And at least in my own personal experience, doesn’t work.
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Yes. A previous poster said it was condescending to men.

I agree.
 
Anglewannabe said:
If a woman has impressive math skills, she would recognize the man’s impressive math skills. If the man really did have impressive math skills and a woman thinks he ‘is a blowhard’ then I would question the woman’s math skills
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Nail on the head. But fallen world and all that.

I like my analogy of the office chair.

It is said to set your office chair higher than visitor chairs to seem “big”

The small man (on the inside) uses the big chair to defeat small.men in meetings.

The big man sits on the floor when visiting and still wins.

Unfortunately man or woman most are small.

It isn’t to dislike women who are independent, it is to dislike the society of women who proclaim it.

To proclaim it is generally the mark of the internally small man.

Same is true for males but less relevent today.

Ie: the battle cry of demanding that is heard in regards to the men is usually small women who need a big chair.

The big woman needs not battle cry.
 
LethalMouse said:
Nail on the head. But fallen world and all that.

I like my analogy of the office chair.

It is said to set your office chair higher than visitor chairs to seem “big”

The small man (on the inside) uses the big chair to defeat small.men in meetings.

The big man sits on the floor when visiting and still wins.

Unfortunately man or woman most are small.

It isn’t to dislike women who are independent, it is to dislike the society of women who proclaim it.

To proclaim it is generally the mark of the internally small man.

Same is true for males but less relevent today.

Ie: the battle cry of demanding that is heard in regards to the men is usually small women who need a big chair.

The big woman needs not battle cry.
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You do realize that women are (on average) substantially shorter than men?

So, I think you need a different analogy. Your average woman (if she were doing that) would need to crank the chair up pretty high just to achieve parity.
 
Xantippe said:
You do realize that women are (on average) substantially shorter than men?

So, I think you need a different analogy. Your average woman (if she were doing that) would need to crank the chair up pretty high just to achieve parity.
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LOL you are joking? Or did you totally miss the 2 key words bc you need to debunk it via shenanigans?

Key words:

ANALOGY

(INTERNALLY SMALL)

In case you don’t grasp the (internally small) it means pretending to be “strong” in person.

Ie: Jesus even if 1 foot tall would sit on the ground and win!

Be like Jesus!

This to use a modern example if the first line on a girls dating profile is “I am independent/strong etc” then you can know that she is everything but.

That is the point our society values falsehoods, not truth.

They are all about being the murderer set free and not like Jesus. Because the murder seems strong. Lol.
 
LethalMouse said:
LOL you are joking? Or did you totally miss the 2 key words bc you need to debunk it via shenanigans?

Key words:

ANALOGY

(INTERNALLY SMALL)
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Indeed. Such words might seem irrelevant, but the addition or subtraction of a single word from a post may change its overall message.
 
Faxero said:
Indeed. Such words might seem irrelevant, but the addition or subtraction of a single word from a post may change its overall message.
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And a very common tactic employed 😦

I have come to learn it is usually more for the posters benifit than outward malice 😦
 
I may be late to the party, but yeah I want a man to be a man. These qualities or ‘virtues’ may be half relative to my perception, but I also find them partially absolute. To me, a man leads without tyranny, protects without smothering, takes charge without domineering, and is possessive without jealousy.

And I found one, so I’m happy. What else needs said? 🤷
 
I never know what to do with pieces like this one. I go into them with an open mind and inevitably I find that the descriptions given of both sexes don’t remotely relate to my own marriage. My husband doesn’t possess the “characteristic male reluctance to ask for help or acknowledge neediness.” I do not “excel at long-suffering patience.” Why do people feel a need for these kinds of generalizations?
 
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