Women talking in mass

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Gingertoast

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In 1 Corinthians 14:34 it says how women should be silent during church, however when the priest is saying something that requires a response such as, “May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands,
for the praise and glory of his name, for our good, and the good of all his Church.” should we (women) think it in our heads instead of saying it aloud?
 
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  • [14:33b36] Verse 33b may belong with what precedes, so that the new paragraph would begin only with 1 Cor 14:34. 1 Cor 14:3435 change the subject. These two verses have the theme of submission in common with 1 Cor 14:11 despite differences in vocabulary, and a concern with what is or is not becoming; but it is difficult to harmonize the injunction to silence here with 1 Cor 11 which appears to take it for granted that women do pray and prophesy aloud in the assembly (cf. 1 Cor 11:5, 13). Hence the verses are often considered an interpolation, reflecting the discipline of later churches; such an interpolation would have to have antedated our manuscripts, all of which contain them, though some transpose them to the very end of the chapter.
 
First of all, you shouldn’t be interpreting Scripture yourself when the Church clearly and obviously teaches for decades, if not centuries, now that both women and men respond out loud in the Mass when a response is required from the congregation. Follow the Church teaching. No need to create an issue where there isn’t one.

Second, it’s my understanding that Corinthians was concerned with women in a particular area who were acting in an undisciplined way for that time and place. It was not a general directive to all women to be completely silent in church for the next 2000 years including when the Church has required the congregation to make a response as part of the prescribed prayers at Mass.
 
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There are certain things Paul wrote that were disciplinary for people of a certain time and place and not universally in force for all people everywhere and always. That’s why we need the Church to help define what’s what. This is one of those narrow, specific cases not applicable to now.
 
And this is why cherry picking Scripture is such a problem. You can literally argue anything because “Scripture says” X.

"Scripture says “There is no God”. Yes uh-huh it does. Right there in the Psalms, “The fool says in his heart there is no God”. Just take out the first six words and there you are, “Scripture says”. . .
 
should we (women) think it in our heads instead of saying it aloud?
Ginger, that isn’t at all what Paul’s letter is talking about.

Get a good bible study, such as Ignatius, and learn how to study the Bible.
 
I’m not offended, I’m simply pointing out that it’s not good practice for you to be looking to Scripture on an issue that the Church has already settled.

The Church requires everyone in the congregation participating in the Mass to make the appropriate responses, if they’re able to do so. Obviously if you’re mute, you have a bad sore throat, or the Mass is in a language you don’t speak, then maybe you can’t respond out loud, but gender doesn’t come into play.

The Church further allows women to be lectors and/or cantors at the OF, and to make announcements as permitted by the priest who is saying the Mass.
The Church does not allow women to preach at Mass, but allows them to preach at other non-Mass gatherings such as retreats or prayer group meetings.

No need to interpret Scripture when the Church has settled this issue.
 
HI Gingertoast,

Everyone who attends Mass in the OF, including the Priest, are part of the Assembly, the Body of the Church. We gather as an Assembly, a people of God, due to our baptism, to worship God. In our Baptism we became part of this body and able to share in the Priesthood of Christ.
here is a link about baptism. http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm

Now at the Mass we are expected to participate with full and active participation in the Mass. We should join in the hymns, speak the responses in the Liturgies, such as the example you gave, and concentrate fully on the Mass. There is no differentiation between gender. Both male and female are expected to give the same full and active participation in the Mass. The Priest is part of the Assembly and has a special job in leading it in the Mass and consecrating the Eucharist to God. It goes without saying the Priest is a male consecrated to the holy orders of Priesthood.
 
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I will go further here if you don’t mind CajunJoy and state that the Liturgy is universal, so our devotions should be directed not to personal devotion level but to the universal worship of God within the Assembly of the Body of Christ at Mass.

To explain this further, music for the Mass, (for example) should not be hymns that speak of personal devotion, but of universal devotion. An example of a personal devotional hymn might be ‘the Summons’ , it is full of I and me. It is a beautiful hymn that might be suitable for the Recessional Hymn or a Funeral Mass. An example of a hymn suitable for the Liturgy would be ‘I have loved you’. Yes there are I’s in this hymn but it is of God saying He loves us. The verse responses are motivated towards the Assembly or group as a whole. 'seek ye ’
 
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I was going to say…give them the Catholic Death Stare, but got that wrong. Oh dear me.
 
There’s a distinction made about what scripture meant originally and what it means today. This is important from both sides of an issue, to get to the heart of what a text is really saying. Here, what was the real meaning and intent of the prohibition? Since it doesn’t say, we can only speculate. (From my reading of Jewish commentaries, there was an impression that people were not responsible for biblical commands that could not be understood.)

Above, someone has addressed that as reflecting some cultural aspect of Paul’s time. But, the text is considered inspired for our edification, and we should explore all possible consequences of a text.
we should be open to the prompting of the Holy Spirit.

One thing that strikes me is that the prohibition of women speaking implies that men were doing all of the speaking, but it doesn’t say that exactly. So, what could that possibly mean? I doubt that ALL men were speaking when the church came together for worship. So, a lot of men were probably not speaking, not just women.

Another thought is that the upside of the prohibition might have been intended to force women to discuss the scriptures at home with their husbands for two reasons: 1) to clarify for themselves what the scripture was saying, and 2) to test the husbands to see if they were paying attention during the gathering.

We’re advised to look for and choose the most harmonius interpretation of scripture and basically to trust in it.

I have no direct experience with the Jewish Talmud, but it supposedly compiles the lists of various interpretations over centuries to attempt to arrive at the best understanding of the Biblical text.

I researched this a couple years ago, and I think there is a test in another book attributed to Paul that contradicts this prohibition or is otherwise describing a situation where women were, kn fact, having an active role in the liturgy. I do not recall right now where that is, but it is worth lookiing into.
 
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Of course the women who were sitting near me at Mass who were chit-chatting for 15 minutes before Mass while I was try to pray need to shhhhh…
 
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