Women to take over pulpits for a Sunday in Germany in push for Church gender equality

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It’s in Germany. This is almost business as usual there. This is wrong, no doubt, but unfortunately there isn’t much that can be done about it. The German bishops are largely supportive of stunts like this, an no one at the Vatican is lifting a finger to clean things up there. It’s probably only going to get worse before it gets better, especially with the German synod going on now.
 
I thought only priests or deacons were allowed to give the homily?
 
As a woman, yes, of course I’m bothered by this.

Women who succumb to the evil temptation to rebel against God and to pridefully grasp for what they perceive as power, and misrepresent their rebelliousness and pride as features of our gender, are… I mean, what else can one say except “Yes I find this bothersome.”

The Church in Germany seems in dire straits. My God have mercy on them, and on all of us.
 
I don’t live in Germany so it’s up to their bishops and the Pope to deal with it. I don’t have time to police or get outraged about every diocese on the planet outside the ones that I personally interact with, and maybe the ones in my own country if they are doing something really scandalous.
 
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Sad, but it’s no surprise that this is coming from the German bishops. Too many people share a similar view, in that they choose to remain indifferent or unaffected by such garbage.

You find this mentality among others who can’t see beyond the walls of their own parish. If it isn’t happening in their own backyard, then it isn’t a universal concern and nothing to lose sleep over.

This really sums up the state of our Church today, which is why so many people expressed similar views to Donald Wuerl; if it’s not happening in your parish, then it’s not some massive, massive crisis.
 
What do you suggest doing about it then, other than complaining on an Internet forum?
 
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Um, it’s on the other side of the world from here. It’s not like it’s the diocese next to mine or the diocese one or two states over. RIght now I’m a lot more interested in what (if any) changes the new bishops might bring to the dioceses I actually go to church in.

There are 2,886 dioceses in the Catholic Church all over the world. Do you yourself keep up with all of them?

And as Salibi said, what do you suggest we laypeople can do about it, other than pray?
Launch a letter-writing campaign or petition drive to the Pope?
We can’t vote the German bishops off the Catholic island.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
other than pray?
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Exactly this^. I was going to point out that you probably did this, and have thus already exhausted the list of “Stuff I Can Do About It,” but didn’t want to presume.
 
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What you choose to view as complaining, I view as bringing awareness of a situation. Our biggest weapon against such actions is obviously prayer, but how are we to know what to pray for unless actions such as these are brought to light.

Plus it helps to spread the news that there are actually clergy who are getting away with such diabolical actions. It’s easier for wickedness to spread when it’s shrouded in darkness and anonymity.

Yet, the problems are often dismissed in favor of attacking the messengers. I can’t tell you how many times a story or video or link has been posted, and if it’s from the usual suspects, the opening posts are quick to denounce the source instead of the activity.
 
I don’t disagree with you in that as lay people we can’t affect much in terms of policy and practices when it comes to what is implemented within the Church.

But that doesn’t mean we just sit on our hands and pretend that what unfolds across the ocean will have no consequences here. If we only choose to be concerned when it becomes apparent that something similar is about to take place in our diocese, then usually it’s too late.

Knowledge of a situation has to account for something. If the German bishops are operating under the impression that ignorance and obedience on the part of the laity will carry them through the day, then what could change if the laity knew that something was wrong and against Church teaching?
 
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Crusader13 said:
But that doesn’t mean we just sit on our hands and pretend that what unfolds across the ocean will have no consequences here. If we only choose to be concerned when it becomes apparent that something similar is about to take place in our diocese, then usually it’s too late.
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I don’t agree. By that sort of reasoning, then all the things that one may view as positive in other dioceses, such as a bishop barring pro-choice lawmakers from communion or mandating that everyone must receive on the tongue, is also likely to spread to all other dioceses. Stuff does not just spread through all 2,886 dioceses because it’s happening in a few, or happening in a certain country. The Church in USA is very different from the Church in Germany, and I think the Church in other countries is also different.

As for your point about “raising awareness”, just posting the article would be fine, I’d probably read it and move on. But the OP asked if I were “particularly bothered” by this. I’m not “particularly bothered” because I don’t live in Germany and I don’t see that this would ever happen in the USA, a place that just drummed the Episcopal female bishop ordination out of the Catholic cathedral.

What seems most likely to happen, from my viewpoint, is that these German bishops will eventually be forced to retire and will likely be replaced by more orthodox bishops who will toe the line. I believe one such bishop was just appointed in Augsburg.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
But the OP asked if I were “particularly bothered” by this. I’m not “particularly bothered” because I don’t live in Germany and I don’t see that this would ever happen in the USA, a place that just drummed the Episcopal female bishop ordination out of the Catholic cathedral.
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And that’s fine. I doubt I will convince you in just a few posts to harbor concern for a situation where you see no cause for alarm. Yet, the fact there is even a need to address such issues is alarming. At least that’s my view.

I don’t view this as an isolated incident. Because something had to occur to allow the Church in Germany to arrive at its current state. How and why was such a gross level of questionable actions and practices allowed to spread?

Who at the top dropped the ball or more accurately put, who turned a blind eye to allow these men to flourish in their deceit.

The level of autonomy that is being given is cause for concern. It points to a much larger situation within our church at the present and that’s the lack of unity. With all the scandals that have rocked our Church, within the US alone, and combined with situations like those in China and Germany, you’d think there would be a call for unity and clarity. Instead we are given teachings on ecology and our duty as Catholics to come together for the good of the planet.
 
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Well, if your real issue is that you don’t like the way Pope Francis is running the Church, which is what it seems to be, I’m sure there will be another Pope along shortly (Unless the Last Judgment happens first, of course), so you can pray for one whose management styles you prefer.
 
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I’m bothered by it - even though it’s in Germany and I’m in the US. I don’t dwell on it; but when I read about things like this, it crosses my mind that - I’ve always loved that the Catholic Church is the Catholic Church no matter you go. - You can attend Mass almost anywhere and know it’s basically the same. Our religion, the Liturgy, the traditions, prayers and faith is shared world wide and there has always been comfort in that. I’ve always known that no matter where I am visiting I can find a Roman Catholic Church, attend and know my Church is my Church.

What I’m seeing happen over the past 8 years or so is a lot of changes and breaking away and implementing their own spin on things… again, I’m not dwelling on it, but yes, it bothers me as a sign of a much larger movement that is worrisome.

I see it as part of a bigger problem. It seems Germany and Austria are trying to lead the way for women priests and unfortunately, it’s slowly gaining popularity - even in America. Even though the Catholic Church doesn’t recognize those jurisdictions that are ordaining women as priests - the fact that they are still calling themselves “Catholic” and use Roman Catholic is getting confusing and causing issues. What begins as ‘baby steps’ soon can become a walk and then a full out sprint. (We have 4 women calling themselves ordained Catholic Womenpriests here in America already.)

If I was to attend Mass in Oldenburg on that particular day and see women in these roles, it would bother me and I would feel as if it was sacrilegious. Which oddly enough, I could conceivably find myself doing that… LOL… because my paternal family is from the Oldenburg area so if I visit Germany to research my family history, that’s the area I would be visiting!

🙂
 
CoffeeCatholic said:
I see it as part of a bigger problem. It seems Germany and Austria are trying to lead the way for women priests and unfortunately, it’s slowly gaining popularity - even in America.
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Yes, this is part of a much bigger problem. The question of women priests has been definitively settled, yet apparently the German bishops are indifferent to that point. This is about much more than women in the pulpit, this will lead to questioning pretty much every unpopular doctrine the church teaches.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
What seems most likely to happen, from my viewpoint, is that these German bishops will eventually be forced to retire and will likely be replaced by more orthodox bishops who will toe the line. I believe one such bishop was just appointed in Augsburg.
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Exactly.

The Holy Father may believe that if he forces the current German bishops to retire 5, 10, 15 years before they usually would, then bigger problems could be created (e.g. the bishops might refuse to retire and might lead part of the German Church into schism).

His idea, as far as I am concerned, is to gradually appoint orthodox bishops as the process of retirement continues - in 20 years, very few of the current bishops in Germany who are promoting the synodal way will still be in power - the Holy Father probably believes that a subtle remaking of the German hierarchy is the best way to go about it.

And I think he’s doing his best. I trust our Holy Father.
 
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