Women's movement

[pira114]

Gerrygarvin:

yeah life was totally great for girls before the women’s movement. It was really good for black people too in the old days.

I don’t think anyone here would suggest that women were never mistreated. Obviously not the case. What I think the general idea here is that things were “fixed” too much for some. It’s not good to let men get away with abusing women, or paying them less for the same job, or not letting them vote.

What IS good, is to hold doors for them. Order for them at resturaunts (if you can). Give them the menus without prices again. Give up your seat for them in a crowded waiting room. Give them the right of way walking down a sidewalk. Etc, etc, etc.

Maybe the women’s movement is not responsible for this. I for one don’t really care to assign blame, I would just like to instill a much higher respect for women in our children so we can set the country right again. As women became more independant, these small gestures disappeared. That may be why people blame the women’s movement.

 

[ladylinguist]

Just my .02, I think when the women’s movement began, women did what most new movements do, and went to the extreme. We went from being fairly dependent on the men in our lives, to being obsessed with doing everything by ourselves. In my teens, I went through a very strong feminist phase, and I was all about fighting the inequality between men and women (women are oppressed and it was all the fault of the men!). I was pretty adamant. Now, I just wish there were more men out there who held to the old ideals of chivalry. I don’t think we need to go back to the days when women were coddled by our menfolk, but I’ve certainly learned that it’s entirely possible to be treated like a lady, and still be strong as a woman. With my last two boyfriends, I’ve noticed the unpleasant trend that men are becoming waaaay to passive. They’ve been trained by society to think that women want to be in charge and ‘wear the pants’ in the relationship. I think as women we can do the men in our lives a service by allowing them to treat us as ladies, and letting them act as men. Once upon a time I wanted to be the dominant one in the relationship, but now I have a much deeper appreciation for men who are strong gentlemen. I don’t know if the women’s movement is completely to blame for this shift, but I definitely think it was the catalyst which began the changes. Either way, I think we could do with a bit in the way old-fashioned values.

 

[Kristina_P]

SemperJase:

Sadly boys are not taught how to treat women anymore. I agree, the feminist movement has contributed to this. Oddly, this movement has resulted in less respect for women.

I’d wager that this is partly because some women claimed women were able to do certain things (mostly things involving physical strength) just as well as or better than men were able to do those things. It’s since been observed that most women can’t do these things as well as most men. So, not only are women’s traditional roles now looked down upon, it’s been shown they aren’t nearly as good at their new roles as was previously claimed.

In trying to become what they thought men were, ultra-feminists have glorified the most spiritually trivial aspects of masculinity and denied the value of the most spiritually intrinsic aspects of femininity. The result is mass confusion. Even I have to fight the tendency to get annoyed when my boyfriend offers to carry my bag for me.

 

[Kristina_P]

I recently posted this on my blog, and I thought it was relevant here:
A quote from Stephan Cardinal Wyszinski:
“I must remember: Whenever a woman enters the room, always rise no matter how busy you are. Rise, whether it is the Mother Superior, or Sister Kleofasa, who tends the heater. Remember that she always reminds you of the Handmaid of the Lord, at the sound of whose name the Church also rises. Remember that in this way you pay a debt of respect to your Immaculate Mother, with whom this woman is more closely associated than you. In this way you pay a debt towards your own mother, who served you with her own flesh and blood. Rise without delay, and you will be the better for it.”

What an incredibly beautiful sentiment!

(Wyszinski was a Polish cardinal imprisoned in a remote convent during Stalin’s time.)

 

[CatholicCid]

SemperJase:

Sadly boys are not taught how to treat women anymore.

I’m gonna say we are taught, but we decide against doing it…
Hello,
I’m CC and I’m a door opener

I remember seeing a girl I knew lugging a large trunk and I rushed over to take it and she just shot a “What do you think you’re doing” glare at me…
Or opening a door for a woman and have her stop and refuse to go in till i let go of it…

There is really no edge way here… You can’t be “rather safe then sorry” cause if you do it wrong, you’ll be sorry either way…

 

[sententia]

Order for them at resturaunts (if you can).

I’ve got a great b/f, opens doors/pays/carries stuff- he’s just awsome. But that’s what you get in Texas

I have never understood the above comment, however- why on earth can’t I decide what I want to eat? I’ve heard that in reading stuff before, but I’ve never understood why it would be considered chivalrous to order food for your girl.

 

[deb1]

CatholicCid:

I’m gonna say we are taught, but we decide against doing it…
Hello,
I’m CC and I’m a door opener

I remember seeing a girl I knew lugging a large trunk and I rushed over to take it and she just shot a “What do you think you’re doing” glare at me…
Or opening a door for a woman and have her stop and refuse to go in till i let go of it…

There is really no edge way here… You can’t be “rather safe then sorry” cause if you do it wrong, you’ll be sorry either way…

This might not have been because she was trying to be independent but because she didn’t know if you were safe. A guy helping you with your bags might be kind or he might be trying to drag you into his car. I probably wouldn’t let a stranger help me with my bags or trunk.

 

[deb1]

sententia:

I’ve got a great b/f, opens doors/pays/carries stuff- he’s just awsome. But that’s what you get in Texas

I have never understood the above comment, however- why on earth can’t I decide what I want to eat? I’ve heard that in reading stuff before, but I’ve never understood why it would be considered chivalrous to order food for your girl.

I have always thought this was odd also. Yo have to understand that you are supposed to tell the man what you want and then he orders it. It isn’t that he is telling you what to eat. But still, I have no idea why this is considered chilvarous.Opening doors and carrying my bags is nice, but I think that I would rather speak up at the restaurant.

I am worried that in time, the rule that men are never supposed to hit a woman no matter what, might pass away.This rule makes sense because a lot of men could do serious damage to a woman if they hit them. Lately there have been a slew of movies in which skinny little girls beat up big guys. Don’t such shows leave young boys with the thought that a girl can be struck in self defense? After all they give the illusion that men and women are equal in physical strength.

 

[sententia]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, ok.

I actually thought that, the " Yo have to understand that you are supposed to tell the man what you want and then he orders it." adds some context now. ROTFL.

 

[MooCowSteph]

CatholicCid:

I’m gonna say we are taught, but we decide against doing it…
Hello,
I’m CC and I’m a door opener

I remember seeing a girl I knew lugging a large trunk and I rushed over to take it and she just shot a “What do you think you’re doing” glare at me…
Or opening a door for a woman and have her stop and refuse to go in till i let go of it…

There is really no edge way here… You can’t be “rather safe then sorry” cause if you do it wrong, you’ll be sorry either way…

Keep doing your manly duty to be chivalris. If it upsets a few “modern” women, too bad. The rest of us will greatly appreciate your help. And it’s just the right thing to do to offer help. Some women may be angry, but don’t be sorry.

I like it when my husband orders for me at a restaurant, after I tell him what I’m having, of course.

 

[Peace-bwu]

From the time we are little girls we are fed a theory that to have equal rights, women need to give up their femininity to be able to compete with men.

All we have done is give up many of our rights as women. We are looked down on by the radical feminist movement if we:

remain virgins before marriage

make the choice to be pro-life

choose to be a wife and mother full time

the list goes on.

I can remember thinking that I would NEVER be a stay at home mom. Now that is what brings me peace, and is the thing I am most happy with in my life.

What the typical feminist movement fails to recognize is authentic feminity.

Sure, some women may make good soldiers or firefighters, construction workers. We all have our talents, and women should be able to have the same opportunity as men to do the job… if they are qualified. The thought that women should have “easier” standards is rediculous. If a woman can do the same job physically as the men around her, so be it… but she better be able to lift and do the same as the men she is working with.

The feminist movement fails to recognize that the majority of men may regret an abortion, that men and women have differing abilities, strengths and weaknesses.

For Christian women, it is good for us to try to view women the same way God does. God’s most perfect creature is Mary, the mother of our Lord, Jesus. We should all ask ourselves what qualities does she have that made her the model of human perfection to God? Was she a preist? The president of the United States? Did she have great wealth or a high power job? She certainly didn’t have an abortion. By turning against our spirituality and feminity we rob ourselves of our true identity, our spiritual growth and our happiness and peace.which can only be found in our peace with God.

I had alot of confusion about this when I was in highschool and college. I told myself I would never be a stay at home mom and that I would have a high paying high power career. I beat myself up in my early 20s by telling myself that I was “selling myself short” by being a stay at home mom, when in reality it was exactly what I wanted to do, I was just trying to talk myself out of it because I had been brainwashed by our culture to believe that I was *supposed *to have a career, and not get married until I was at least 28, that marriage was like legalized slavery, that birth control and the sexual revolution were a good thing. I grew up with alot of mixed messages. One one hand I had my Catholic upbringing and on the other hand I had all the messages from our media culture.

At least you have figured this out while you are still a teenager! It caused me great angst when I was in my late teens/ early 20s.

I would consider my husband a proponent of authentic femininity. I am a stay at home wife and mother, but my husband helps with housework, makes dinner, we take our daughters and son to Karate, they all play soccer and take dancing and music classes. My husband would support me in whatever I choose to do with a career, but respects me just as much as a full time mom. We want our daughters and son to have every opportunity for success, but do not expect them to follow or break stereotypes.

 

[LSK]

I think what the feminist movement and today’s members of Women of Grace fail to remember is that women cannot be put into a specific space and told, “THERE - that is what you are meant to do and THAT is all that will bring you happiness”.

Women have, since the beginnng of time, had to meet challenges of survival. Some have met them with success - others have not.

My experience has been that all women should be prepared to meet life’s challenges with grace, dignity, a love of the Lord and their heads held high…if they are not prepared, they will find themselves at the mercy of their own fears. That will lead to poor choices. Poor choices can lead to death - physical or spiritual.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

Funny thing, I was just in a grocery store yesterday and saw a young woman using a fork lift to stock groceries. It occurred to me that she never knew the time when people actually thought she wasn’t capable of running heavy machinery. How strange the thinking used to be!

I remember when my older sister worked at our local cannery, where the high school and college kids made their money for college. The girls and women were given only the inspection belt and other light manual labor jobs, the most low-paying and boring jobs in the whole place. Ten years or so later, when I worked there, the women got to run fork lifts, do sanitation work, and anything else they had the physical strength to do. There was suspicion, though. Women had to prove what they could do, and men who couldn’t do the heavy lifting somehow weren’t “men.” Now, here’s a young woman who probably never considered that somebody would think she was too weak to stock groceries. If I told her about it, she’d probably look at me as if I were describing a mimeograph machine. Not only are men whose backs won’t allow heavy lifting still “men”, but men who get around and do their work from wheelchairs are men, too, and not invalids.

There was a time and there are still places where many jobs require the kind of strength that is not common in women. We need to recognize that. Still, it is a good thing that we’ve gotten to the place where they don’t take your ability to do those jobs as evidence of your gender. The short term confusion it took to get there was worth it. I’d go back and open my own doors for that.

Common sense needs to return to manners. It is considerate to open doors for someone wearing high heels or a dress, because that kind of attire makes it difficult to do it without taking a rather unflattering stance. It is considerate to open doors for those carrying packages, be they male or female. Anyone who is confused by this is, IMHO, is probably either looking for excuses or looking for applause. That some people are rude gives you no excuse to slack off on treating others well. Don’t understand women? There are some people of both sexes that you’re never going to understand. Don’t let it discourage you.

Maybe we ought to thank our stars that we have reached the point where neither men nor women have a sense of entitlement about how they are treated or what is expected of them. It is polite to look out for others and to be gracious to anyone kind enough to want to look out for you. How hard is that?

As far as letting those with pro-abortion or anti-marriage agendas presume to speak for women, we ought not let that happen. I would rather say, “I think women should be treated fairly, but no one has a right to abort an innocent child” than to quibble about who fits into what “-ism”. I think I can make it clear how public servants can earn *this *woman’s vote without any of that.

 

[rayne89]

My husband wasn’t raised chivalrous, in fact the women in his family wait on the men hand and foot. I met him when I was 16 (he was 17), in a few years time he’d become quite the gentlemen (with some encouragement on my part). He did always pay for our dates though. My dad is is of an older generation then his dad and he has always been chivalrous.

When we were teenagers one thing I found pretty humerous…I was with my husband (then boyfriend) at his parents’ house in the evening. His father announced he was going to bed asked and his mother to “turn down the bed.” After he was out of ear-shot I asked my future hubby, “What does you’re dad want your mom to do?” He replied, “Turn the covers back so he can get in the bed.” I was completely amused “So what happens she isn’t home? Does he lay on top until she gets home.” By the way the woman still “turns down the bed.”

 

[deb1]

rayne89:

My husband wasn’t raised chivalrous, in fact the women in his family wait on the men hand and foot. I met him when I was 16 (he was 17), in a few years time he’d become quite the gentlemen (with some encouragement on my part). He did always pay for our dates though. My dad is is of an older generation then his dad and he has always been chivalrous.

When we were teenagers one thing I found pretty humerous…I was with my husband (then boyfriend) at his parents’ house in the evening. His father announced he was going to bed asked and his mother to “turn down the bed.” After he was out of ear-shot I asked my future hubby, “What does you’re dad want your mom to do?” He replied, “Turn the covers back so he can get in the bed.” I was completely amused “So what happens she isn’t home? Does he lay on top until she gets home.” By the way the woman still “turns down the bed.”

Yes, I have to admit that I don’t want to go back to such a time.

My family is southern and there seems to be the mindset among older people here that ‘boys will be boys’ and should get pampered by the women around them. This pampering does not extend to women. Thankfully, this is dying out but it used to annoy me that my beloved grandma would always act offended if my brother went out with a wrinkled shirt. She always insisted on ironing and caring for all his clothes. Of course, I was expected to iron and care for my own clothes.

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

deb1:

Yes, I have to admit that I don’t want to go back to such a time.

My family is southern and there seems to be the mindset among older people here that ‘boys will be boys’ and should get pampered by the women around them. This pampering does not extend to women. Thankfully, this is dying out but it used to annoy me that my beloved grandma would always act offended if my brother went out with a wrinkled shirt. She always insisted on ironing and caring for all his clothes. Of course, I was expected to iron and care for my own clothes.

I think sometimes the frustration comes, not from sexism, but from honest ignorance. (Truely no offense intend to anyone here!)

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My dh has opened doors for me since we met at 15.

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When we come home and sit down, dh takes my shoes off for me.

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If I give the slightest mumble or look for something - he jumps to do it for me if at all possible.

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He knows me far better than I know myself and therefore gives me one less thing to think about by ordering for me. Sometimes he knows because I mention a craving. More often than not, he just does it. Some time ago, (I forget exactly how many kids we had then - just remember the emotions) we went out to eat for the first time after the birth of one of the babies. I was completely tired and then fried getting all the kids orders straight. So we placed the kids orders and dh’s order, but completely forgot my own order. I hadn’t even looked at the menu! The waitress brought out the food before I figured it out. by then, I just didn’t bother as everyone else would have been done by the time my food got out.

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I do not look at the things my dh does as “manly” although I suppose it is. I look at it as little acts of kindness from a man to a woman he loves and wants to make her life little bit more pleasant with him in it.

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Same goes for my treatment of my dh. My mil was horrified years ago because we were all eating dinner here and my dh just quietly set his empty pop can near me while talking to his dad. I didn’t think much of it. I just got up and refilled everyone’s drinks. She thought it was rude of him to act like that. Didn’t she teach him to do those things himself? Why yes she did, but that doesn’t keep me from doing little things to make his life just a bit more pleasant with me in it.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

rayne89:

I was with my husband (then boyfriend) at his parents’ house in the evening. His father announced he was going to bed asked and his mother to “turn down the bed.” After he was out of ear-shot I asked my future hubby, “What does you’re dad want your mom to do?” He replied, “Turn the covers back so he can get in the bed.” I was completely amused “So what happens she isn’t home? Does he lay on top until she gets home.” By the way the woman still “turns down the bed.”

I don’t know if this applies to this case, but there are some things that are not done out of tradition so much as out of affection. My husband puts the paste on my toothbrush for me, if he brushes his teeth before I have. Now that it’s cold, if he’s going to get home from work after I go to bed, I go to sleep on his side. That way, when he gets in, all cold and tired, his side is already all nice and warm. (I’m all warm, too, so my “cold” side warms up much faster than when I first get in.)

It’s not that I can’t put toothpaste on my own brush or that he can’t sleep in a cold bed. When life gets going fast and you hardly have time to talk, it’s nice to know you’re being thought of.

I like chivalry. Men are not women, women are not men, and a little bit of gender-specificity in manners is a way to celebrate that you like the way God made you and the opposite sex, too. But it is even nicer when someone does something for you, not because roles set up before you were born, but because of an affection that is new every day.

 

[CatholicCid]

deb1:

This might not have been because she was trying to be independent but because she didn’t know if you were safe. A guy helping you with your bags might be kind or he might be trying to drag you into his car. I probably wouldn’t let a stranger help me with my bags or trunk.

Well, we’ve been friends for over 4 years and we were in a building surrounded by at least 100 people… The “trunk” was a play prop that she was moving to put away, yet had been filled with useless junk, weighing it down… And yes, she is a feminist , so I should have known better

 

[deb1]

CatholicCid:

Well, we’ve been friends for over 4 years and we were in a building surrounded by at least 100 people… The “trunk” was a play prop that she was moving to put away, yet had been filled with useless junk, weighing it down… And yes, she is a feminist , so I should have known better

Aaaahhh…I see. I thought that she was a stranger to you.

 

[deb1]

BLB_Oregon:

I don’t know if this applies to this case, but there are some things that are not done out of tradition so much as out of affection. My husband puts the paste on my toothbrush for me, if he brushes his teeth before I have. Now that it’s cold, if he’s going to get home from work after I go to bed, I go to sleep on his side. That way, when he gets in, all cold and tired, his side is already all nice and warm. (I’m all warm, too, so my “cold” side warms up much faster than when I first get in.)

It’s not that I can’t put toothpaste on my own brush or that he can’t sleep in a cold bed. When life gets going fast and you hardly have time to talk, it’s nice to know you’re being thought of.

I like chivalry. Men are not women, women are not men, and a little bit of gender-specificity in manners is a way to celebrate that you like the way God made you and the opposite sex, too. But it is even nicer when someone does something for you, not because roles set up before you were born, but because of an affection that is new every day.

My hubby has bad knees and has taken to eating dinner in his favorite recliner. I bring him his food because I know that most nights he is in pain.

A person arriving at our home might think that I was very submissive. WHen my hubby comes home from work, I often get up and give him the recliner. But the reason is so that he can put his feet up, which helps his knees.

I agree if such activities are done because the person is being loving and wants to express affection or concern there is nothing wrong with doing so.