women's ordination

[mikew262]

Pardon me while I tune my bagpipes for a hymn of thanksgiving. If we can waste time debating something that has been definitively settled, then surely all the other problems that confront the Church and society must have been solved.

The Church has no power to ordain women. Period. End of discussion.

Now c’mon Vern, lets not be a thread killer. This is a “forum” afterall.

 

[bones_IV]

Pardon me while I tune my bagpipes for a hymn of thanksgiving. If we can waste time debating something that has been definitively settled, then surely all the other problems that confront the Church and society must have been solved.

The Church has no power to ordain women. Period. End of discussion.

There you have it. Should I tune those bagpipes for you? I’ll be sure and not bust them.

 

[sinningcatholic]

Pardon me while I tune my bagpipes for a hymn of thanksgiving. If we can waste time debating something that has been definitively settled, then surely all the other problems that confront the Church and society must have been solved.

The Church has no power to ordain women. Period. End of discussion./QUOTE)

End of reasoned discussion.
Your citation about the misisterial powers IS ACCURATE.

Every Holy Sacrement was first PERFORMED BY CHRIST AND THEN PASSED TO THE MINISTERIAL CHURCH.

If people want something that Christ did not ordain, they need to look at the history of the Catholic Church: either you are Catholic or Jewish, or why bother? Every one else finds a reason to make up some new rules, and start new variations of the Pure and Authentic Word.

And if all the probs of society are solved, why did i get a bill due to identity theft in the mail? Should I start my own religion now, or wait for a few more bills to roll in? maureen

 

[vern_humphrey]

vern humphrey;1787605:

Pardon me while I tune my bagpipes for a hymn of thanksgiving. If we can waste time debating something that has been definitively settled, then surely all the other

problems that confront the Church and society must have been solved.

The Church has no power to ordain women. Period. End of discussion.

You mean all the problems of the Church and society **aren’t **solved? And we’re wasting time debating things already definitively settled?

Well, I’ll be dipped in snuff!

 

[sinningcatholic]

Pardon me while I tune my bagpipes for a hymn of thanksgiving. If we can waste time debating something that has been definitively settled, then surely all the other problems that confront the Church and society must have been solved.

The Church has no power to ordain women. Period. End of discussion.

I empathize with women who want to be priests. I am a woman who could NOT have children. That left a hole in my life. But just like NO WOMEN PRIESTS, i had to decide–after anger and eventually depression, should I be bitter, and insist on ‘by any means possible’-----at which point, i would be rejecting God’s decision for personal satisfaction? Or should I trust God’s Decision.

I cried a lot. I WAS PATHETIC…The hole in my life continues. But ministering as a mother is little different than ministering as a priest. Priests cannot be women; and men cannot give new life. GOD HAS A REASON FOR EVERYTHING==EVEN IF WE DON’T UNDERSTAND IT NOW.

I accidentally erased a very NT based authentication of why God gave the ministerial power of the Holy Catholic Church to only ordain men. The answer to the Q is epeated over and over in the new testament===and Orthodox Judiasm does not allow women rabbis. can we agee this is FOR SOME, a painful fact of reality for Catholics?

If not…do what everyone else who dislike a position in a religious sect: CHANGE THE RULES TO SUIT YOURSELF, REGARDLESS OF THE WORD, AND START YOUR OWN RELIGION… maureen

 

[contramundum7]

I empathize with women who want to be priests. I am a woman who could NOT have children. That left a hole in my life. But just like NO WOMEN PRIESTS, i had to decide–after anger and eventually depression, should I be bitter, and insist on ‘by any means possible’-----at which point, i would be rejecting God’s decision for personal satisfaction? Or should I trust God’s Decision.

I cried a lot. I WAS PATHETIC…The hole in my life continues. But ministering as a mother is little different than ministering as a priest. Priests cannot be women; and men cannot give new life. GOD HAS A REASON FOR EVERYTHING==EVEN IF WE DON’T UNDERSTAND IT NOW.

I accidentally erased a very NT based authentication of why God gave the ministerial power of the Holy Catholic Church to only ordain men. The answer to the Q is epeated over and over in the new testament===and Orthodox Judiasm does not allow women rabbis. can we agee this is FOR SOME, a painful fact of reality for Catholics?

If not…do what everyone else who dislike a position in a religious sect: CHANGE THE RULES TO SUIT YOURSELF, REGARDLESS OF THE WORD, AND START YOUR OWN RELIGION… maureen

i had this same longing, years ago, to be a priest. Sometimes it still hits me. Its because i love Jesus so much… and want to be like him. That is an honorable sentiment. I really feel 4 u not being able to do what your heart desires and also, because u cannot have children. Children r the greatest blessing in life, after knowing Jesus Christ (especially knowing Him @ the Exposed Sacrament)… But maybe u could volunteer with children or whatever… I would love to have a baby but can’t do artificial insemination or whatever because I’m CAtholic… (wouldn’t believe in it even if i wasn’t…). Desires can be very powerful things… but what the world doesn’t understand (and non-Catholics) is that sometimes we just have to accept that we can’t have everything… When i suffer, i always try to think of Jesus on the Cross… He gave up everything for love… Love of us, love of truth, love of the Father… Sometimes we have to choose between love of (whatever) & love of God… & being human, that is not always easy… But anyway… God bless…
Oh, didn’t mean to offend Protestants. They don’t all think that way… that they should have whatever they want… but it seems Catholics r more willing to accept crosses…

 

[vern_humphrey]

I empathize with women who want to be priests. I am a woman who could NOT have children. That left a hole in my life. But just like NO WOMEN PRIESTS, i had to decide–after anger and eventually depression, should I be bitter, and insist on ‘by any means possible’-----at which point, i would be rejecting God’s decision for personal satisfaction? Or should I trust God’s Decision.

I cried a lot. I WAS PATHETIC…The hole in my life continues. But ministering as a mother is little different than ministering as a priest. Priests cannot be women; and men cannot give new life. GOD HAS A REASON FOR EVERYTHING==EVEN IF WE DON’T UNDERSTAND IT NOW.

I accidentally erased a very NT based authentication of why God gave the ministerial power of the Holy Catholic Church to only ordain men. The answer to the Q is epeated over and over in the new testament===and Orthodox Judiasm does not allow women rabbis. can we agee this is FOR SOME, a painful fact of reality for Catholics?

You certainly have my sympathy. I think we all undersand what it is to desire what we cannot have.

If not…do what everyone else who dislike a position in a religious sect: CHANGE THE RULES TO SUIT YOURSELF, REGARDLESS OF THE WORD, AND START YOUR OWN RELIGION… maureen

You have said something perceptive here – because we see this pattern over and over. People who want the Church to change leave the Church in frustration.

Yet in so doing, they raise a point – suppose this person were ordained? And suppose there was another point of settled doctrine where they disagreed with the Church – such as abortion, gay marriage, and so on? Would they not leave the Church then – and perhaps attempt to take with them the flock entrusted to them?

The wisdom of the Church is made known to us when we consider these questions.

 

[sinningcatholic]

sinningcatholic;1787724:

You mean all the problems of the Church and society **aren’t **

solved? And we’re wasting time debating things already definitively settled?

Well, I’ll be dipped in snuff!

snuff?? i hadn’t thought of that.you mean like Baptism by snuff dipping vs Holy Water dipping? --oh that has REAL potential here in America…

We like to focus on ALL our freedoms as ‘ordained by God’. Like God was sittinlike the 9th Circuit Court. even when you’re, by outstanding evidence from multiple contributors, wrong, if you’re right in your own eyes, THAT’S ALL THAT matters.

Hmmm… the Dipology of Snuff- redemptology. Oh, yeah…i can see that here. plus it would be a total spirit and financial renewal of the tobacco farmers and manufacturers. Get an intellectual property copy right—because this might just work.
ll ll
l
(_______) maureen

 

[sinningcatholic]

You certainly have my sympathy. I think we all undersand what it is to desire what we cannot have.

You have said something perceptive here – because we see this pattern over and over. People who want the Church to change leave the Church in frustration.

Yet in so doing, they raise a point – suppose this person were ordained? And suppose there was another point of settled doctrine where they disagreed with the Church – such as abortion, gay marriage, and so on? Would they not leave the Church then – and perhaps attempt to take with them the flock entrusted to them? The wisdom of the Church is made known to us when we consider these questions.

---

response: thank you for well writing a very complicated and obscure reality, documented Truth of the Word.

Cognitive Kudos. My screen name (sinningcatholic) was chosen out of truth, self knowledge and desire to be presented to others’ as guilty of original sin, generating more and personally allowed sins.

The Church offers authentic Acts and Ministeries first performed by Jesus, then passed to man by the Word.

Having to fight being a ‘cafeteria Catholic’ i wage war against my own life every day. I am SO not proud of my life.

It’s an irony. Accepting the expiation of all sins given the ministry of priestly absolution after Confession, I record to myself the priest’s absolution with all my sinful acts a record of my history, but am cleansed. I still DID every thing I confessed, but the wrongs are now an earthly matter: not an obstruction from God. I will pay for my wrongs all my earthly life, and GRATEFUL TO DO SO. God bless you.

Thank you: really. Your post is not going to end with the individuals reading it here. I will dust off the inconvenient Truths and we will either ask for more help, or plead an excuse. Excuses indicate lack of depth remorse and increase the likelihood of same sins later. m…

 

[sinningcatholic]

There you have it. Should I tune those bagpipes for you? I’ll be sure and not bust them.

BUT OF COURSE!!! MUSIC IS THE AUDITORY CELEBRATION OF TRUTH. come to think of it it is the “Wind of the Spirit” that presses out each note!! thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[Grace_Angel]

Ian:

There is no reason a woman CAN’T perform the duties of the priest. There are only reasons she shouldn’t. Just as there is no reason i can’t fly a plane into a building and kill people, i shouldn’t.
When God set up humanity, He set it up so that man would be protector, provider, and leader (the head). Woman, because of her role in childbearing, is the heart and her duties lie in nurturing. Does this make her inferior? No. She is fully capable of learning the same things, performing the same duties, etc. However, when you carry life within your body for 9 months and then your body produces the food a baby needs to be nourished for the first few months of life, is it really fair to expect a woman to be out hunting for food or tilling the land when she should be resting (babies are exhausting)?
You can argue that not all women become mothers, which is true. Even in the Catholic Church, many women become nuns and never reproduce. You will note they “toil”. However, the vast majority of women in this world will become mothers. You cannot reconstruct society for the sake of the few or else you will have the stressful society we do now. How many mothers don’t even get to nurture the lives they create because society says motherhood is worthless because there’s no paycheck involved? The women’s movement has ruined life for women who now have to take care of housework, children, and be breadwinners because the women’s movement created the myth of the superwoman who has it all. And a generation of children are now suffering from spiritual hollowness because mommy has, whether she knows it or not, taught them that a job is more important than them. Parents buy their kids things instead of spending time with them.
Now the world is such that many families cannot live without two incomes, and men often abandon their wives or girlfriends and the lives they created with them. I submit, however, that if women cherished the role of the heart instead of agreeing that they were indeed inferior to men (like a job will prove that’s false) then society would not be crumbling at the rate it is now.

Yeah Johnny well said.
thank you.
Grace Angel.

 

[Fergal]

Ok to those of you ladies who pasted above that you have sometimes a desire to be Priest let me first of all tell you that you are in wonderful company!

St Therese had this desire also.

Now a question.

What exactly is the reason why you would wish to become a Priest?

I have something I want to share with you aoll but I need to know the reasons first.

God Bless.

 

[sinningcatholic]

There were references to sexual orientation and the spousal theory of men-only priests. ie=the Church would become a lesbian.

Briefly, sexual orientation is irrelevant.

We know that ALL CONSENTUAL SEXUAL ACTS out side marriage are grave sins, mortal sins. Sounds gender orientation equal to me. Ergo, all the straights are sinning no less than gays when acting out with sex outside marriage.

The body is the body. What we do with the body is in the mind, the seat of conscious decision to sin, or not.

 

[Ender]

I know that the Church has already spoken on the issue regarding women’s ordination. … I’m looking for reasons besides what sacred tradition and the bible say.

I guess we should have started out with this: reasons besides what sacred tradition and the bible say are not relevant. Where else should the Church look for guidance?

None of those links explained any actual reason, they just quoted bible passages and cited traditions that just flat out said so.

By actual reason, do you mean an explanation for why Jesus acted as he did? I think the Church limits herself to explaining what God’s plan is without contemplating what was on his mind when he created it.

I think more realistically you should realize that there was an inherent sexism in people back then and such things have leaked into the bible. … You have all explained very well where God has said that women can’t be ordained, but that still doesn’t explain why.

Your questions are no different from those who question the validity of the Church’s teachings on any other subject. Either she has been given the grace to correctly understand God’s will or she hasn’t, and if she hasn’t then nothing she says can be accepted as true. The best that could be allowed is that she is no more than a good but fallible teacher and ultimately the judgement on questions of truth are up to the individual. On the other hand, if, as she claims, she is protected from serious error by God’s grace, then her pronouncements are true regardless of how hard they are for us to understand. What you believe about her judgements is determined by whether or not you believe she is the Church Jesus meant to create.

Ender

 

[FCEGM]

There were references to sexual orientation and the spousal theory of men-only priests. ie=the Church would become a lesbian.

Briefly, sexual orientation is irrelevant. .

Sexual orientation is irrelevant (objectively for the issue of the male-only priesthood), but not gender since it pertains to the teaching re the male-only priesthood and the necessary symbolism of a male priest; so, the symbolism of Christ as Groom to His Bride the Church isn’t irrelevant. Not all symbols are mutable; some are natural symbols by creation and some are Divine symbols by God’s choice. Neither of these sorts of symbols can be changed or manipulated at will by subjective meanings as to their being. Other symbols are relative to a particular culture, or even to a particular person, but since all of life is not reducible to individual cultures or particular persons, neither are all symbols mutable by cultures or individuals. Some are created so by God (man and woman, water, earth, fire, light and darkness, air, etc.) and some have been Divinely chosen to mean what God intended them to mean: Baptism, Priesthood, Eucharist, etc., in which natural and man-made substances, actions, and persons mean what God wants them to mean which the Church can only respect and has not the freedom unilaterally to alter without blasphemy, because the Church is not the origin of them - but God IS.

We know that ALL CONSENTUAL SEXUAL ACTS out side marriage are grave sins, mortal sins. Sounds gender orientation equal to me. Ergo, all the straights are sinning no less than gays when acting out with sex outside marriage.

The body is the body. What we do with the body is in the mind, the seat of conscious decision to sin, or not

This is off topic, but yes and no. The sin of man-woman fornication outside the marital covenant is a grave or mortal sin, but it remains a natural act. Homosexual acts constitute not only grave or mortal sin, they are never a natural act but, rather, a perversion of the natural act. They are, as the Church teaches, contrary to natural law and intrinsically disordered.

 

[Fergal]

Any takers on my previously posted question to all females with the desire for Priesthood?

Why exactly do you wish to become a Priest?

 

[dumspirospero]

Isn’t sacred tradition, coupled with The Bible…enough?

I know that the Church has already spoken on the issue regarding women’s ordination. I was told there were ontological and gerontalogical reasons why. Like fore example ordinatio sacerdotalis for example says that women cannot be priests. Right? The twelve apostles were all men right? Ok. Is it on the basis of gender that women can’t be priests? Is it because of difference in biological parts? My sister asked me this and I didn’t know how to answer that. I’m looking for reasons besides what sacred tradition and the bible say. I would really appreciate your guy’s help. You guys have been so good to me on this forum. And it’s a miracle that I came here. God bless.

Nick

 

[Fergal]

Successful Experiment!!

There just isn’t one good reason why women should be ordained.

Thanks!

 

[FCEGM]

Successful Experiment!!

There just isn’t one good reason why women should be ordained.

Thanks!

 

[JimR-OCDS]

One thing I have never heard from those calling, or I should say, demanding the ordination of women to the priesthood, and that is, they never ask to pray about it.

If the odrination of women to the priesthood is God’s will, it will happen through prayer, not through protest or making demands for it.

My guess is that the reason why you don’t hear for prayers on the issue is because those calling for it, lack faith in the first place, and see the priesthood as a position of power which must be fought for.

Jim