Women's roles in the Church

[Raafat]

Hello,

I was reading the New Testament, specifically Paul’s letter to Corinthians the first one. It stopped me because in chapter 11 that he orders women to cover their heads so as to show submission to men. Aren’t women our equal partners? Equal in dignity and value and capabilities?

In 1 Corinthians chapter 14 verses 34:36
It tells women to be silent in the Church because it is indecent for them to do so, even if she had some questions she ought to ask her husband at home.
Why tell them to remain silent and submit, men are not better than women. They have full mental capacities.
Their (name removed by moderator)ut is rather helpful. Why would Paul say such things regarding women even though he himself there’s neither man nor woman in Christ.

One of the reasons I left Islam because it didn’t treat women fairly. Sure they had it better than Jahalya women but still it us very unfair.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

Aaaaand we’ve sprung Pandora’s box wiiiiide open.

 

[Spyridon]

Aren’t women our equal partners? Equal in dignity and value and capabilities?

Equal partners, yes.

Equal in dignity, yes.

Equal in value, yes.

Equal in capabilities, absolutely not.

Let’s see a man give birth to a child, or a woman get a woman pregnant. It’s a modernist lie to say men and women have equal capabilities. Women are capable of many things which men are incapable of. Men are capable of many things which women are incapable of.

 

[Spyridon]

JNo, no, no. Women aren’t to be submissive to men. Anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong. Dead wrong. A wife is called to be

So the Holy Spirit was in manifest error when he inspired St. Paul to write:

Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

Is that your contention?

 

[Seagull]

Spy squashes that idea

I went to the museum of fine arts, on a date,
and she was seeing things in the art that I didn’t…
And vice versa …

But in the church… I draw a line with certain things…
I think Paul said to Timothy - to let the older women teach the younger woman…

 

[Gorgias]

So the Holy Spirit was in manifest error when he inspired St. Paul to write

Nah… men were in manifest error when they took that to mean that all women were to be submissive to them.

 

[Lea101]

Let’s see a man give birth to a child, or a woman get a woman pregnant

Come on, I’m sure you know perfectly well that he didn’t mean that women and men have the same reproductive organs. Nobody thinks that.

 

[Lea101]

Two thoughts on women being silent in Church: one thought is that St Paul was advising this as Corinth was a little on the rowdy side and women were yelling across the room to their husbands during worship time. The other is that it was reinforcing that only men were to be priests and proclaim the Gospel and the homily (teaching). You must understand things in context.

Yeah. Paul did come across as rather uncharitable on some of the things he wrote, but I think it was Peter who even said that Paul is a little hard to understand? If he is that way in his own time, it’s no wonder why modern society still gets confused over his letters too!

 

[Spyridon]

Paul did come across as rather uncharitable on some of the things he wrote,

Flat out blasphemy.

You accuse the Holy Ghost of being uncharitable? Blasphemy, period.

 

[angel12]

Aaaaand we’ve sprung Pandora’s box wiiiiide open.

I really wish I could give this post about a millions likes.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

Lea101:

Paul did come across as rather uncharitable on some of the things he wrote,

Flat out blasphemy.

You accuse the Holy Ghost of being uncharitable? Blasphemy, period.

The Holy Ghost’s Name is YHWH, not Paul.

 

[phil19034]

LumineDiei:

Two thoughts on women being silent in Church: one thought is that St Paul was advising this as Corinth was a little on the rowdy side and women were yelling across the room to their husbands during worship time. The other is that it was reinforcing that only men were to be priests and proclaim the Gospel and the homily (teaching). You must understand things in context.

Yeah. Paul did come across as rather uncharitable on some of the things he wrote, but I think it was Peter who even said that Paul is a little hard to understand? If he is that way in his own time, it’s no wonder why modern society still gets confused over his letters too!

St Paul is not uncharitable, however you do have to understand him in context.

St Paul calls women to obey their husbands, but he also calls for men to die for their wives.

St Paul is basically saying that man & wife should love each other so deeply that the wife should want to obey her husband out of love & the man should be willing to die for his wife out of love.

It’s not a matter of domance or who’s better than the other. It’s out of love. The woman humbles herself by obeying and the man humbles himself by dying for his wife (which back in those times the opportunity to die for your wife was FAR more common).

Real life example:

During the reign of Emperor Nero (the Emperor who had Paul killed), Christian families were being killed. If a Roman death squad came to the house of a Christian family, it would not be uncommon for the husband to order his wife to hide and for the man to give up his life while he lead the Romans away from the house.

That’s the love St Paul is talking about.

In regards to teaching: St. Paul is referring during mass only. He’s referring to the Sermon / Homily

God Bless

 

[edwest211]

Misinformed.

Ephesians 5:25

New International Version
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

New Living Translation
For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her

English Standard Version
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,

Ephesians 5:28

New International Version
In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

New Living Translation
In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as they love their own bodies. For a man who loves his wife actually shows love for himself.

English Standard Version
In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

 

[Lea101]

I said he came across as that…calm down.

 

[dochawk]

Two thoughts on women being silent in Church: one thought is that St Paul was advising this as Corinth was a little on the rowdy side and women were yelling across the room to their husbands during worship time. The other is that it was reinforcing that only men were to be priests and proclaim the Gospel and the homily (teaching). You must understand things in context.

The Divine Liturgy of St. Chrysostom has the deacon more than once announcing, “Wisdom! Be attentive!”

I forget which book I was reading (one of Fr. Petras’?) that explained that this was, in the context of when he wrote, pretty close to “Shut up and Listen!”



hawk

 

[Spyridon]

Accusing the Holy Ghost of coming across as uncharitable is blasphemous.

 

[Lea101]

Paul did come across as rather uncharitable on some of the things he wrote, but I think it was Peter who even said that Paul is a little hard to understand?

I don’t know if you’re being purposefully ignorant because you’re bored or whatever but read what I said carefully.

Come across = gives the impression that he’s such a way.

He gives the impression that he’s uncharitable because he’s hard to understand. This is true because you have lots of people calling him sexist for some of the things he said. Does that make him really sexist? No. But he gives the impression that he is. I’m sure you’re smart enough to understand that the impression does not necessarily mean that it’s true. Sigh. Don’t accuse me of sins I did not commit if you are not trying to understand what I meant.

 

[Spyridon]

Does that make him really sexist? No. But he gives the impression that he is. I

No, he doesn’t.

Only if you’re a modernist and/or some sort of heretic does the Glorious and Ever Blessed Saint Paul the Apostle come off as “sexist.”

 

[Lea101]

You literally just contradicted yourself by saying he gives off that impression to modernists…

I don’t view him as sexist, just a man who uses harsh language and is difficult to understand (even in his own time). He comes across as sexist to people who don’t understand him. That is literally a fact. How bored are you?

 

[Spyridon]

It is blasphemous to say the Ever Blessed Apostle comes off as anything other than a Holy Man of God.

You can entertain the filth of satan if you want. I’ll have no part in it.