Word Faith

[jfallaw]

I keep coming back to it, but having dabbled for a short time in Word Faith Protestantism, I know how easy it is to get drawn into it- especially if you are struggling financially and feel that their beliefs on ‘prosperity’ might be valid. But it seems to me to be a strange mix of Scientology, Mormonism, and Christianity. The more I studied it, the more I became convinced to return to my Catholic roots (thank God!). So I once again ask a question of Word Faith adherents, which follows the quotes below…

“the believer is as much an Incarnation as Jesus Christ” (Kenneth Hagin-“Faith Food”, p. 23)

“Jesus is no longer the only begotten son of God” (Kenneth Copeland- “Now We Are In Christ Jesus”, p. 24)

“We are the Word made flesh, just as Jesus was.” (Gloria Copeland, quoted in Crenshaw, “Man as God”, 202)

“Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any” (Isaiah 44:8)

“[born-again Christians] now have the nature of God… the ability of God” (E.W. Kenyon, What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, p. 82 [Later plagiarized by Ken Hagin])

“There is none like unto the Lord our God” (Exodus 8:10)

Concerning the statement of Job 1:21, “The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away,” Word-Faith teacher Charles Capps says, “Job did say it, but it is not a true statement. It is a lie. … Job sure was not under the anointing when he made that statement” (The Tongue - A Creative Force, pp. 8-9)[So the infallible Bible is full of lies?]

“Well, now, you don’t have a human, do you? No, you are one. You don’t have a God in you. You are one”(Kenneth Copeland, “The Force of Love”, cassette tape"

“I am a little God! Critics, be gone!” (Paul Crouch, Praise the Lord, Trinity Broadcasting Network, July 7, 1986)

“We are a class of Gods!” (Copeland, quoted in Hanegraaff, Crisis, 116)

“As a believer, you have the same spiritual capacity that Jesus has. … Your spirit is just as big as God’s because you are born of Him.” (Copeland, Realm, 16)

“If God is running everything, He does have things in a mess.” (Hagin, The Interceding Christian (Tulsa: Kenneth E. Hagin Ministries, 1978, 14)

My question to you would be, why do you even bother to believe in Jesus, when you consider yourself His equal? Why believe in God, when you think that you are one? Why not just save yourself?

 

[Ruthie]

I’m not sure there are any “Prosperity Gospel” people in these forums.

I’m really just posting this to “bump” the thread. I tend to get uncharitable about this particular twisting of Scripture…

God bless us all, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health!

Ruthie

 

[jfallaw]

I’m not sure there are any “Prosperity Gospel” people in these forums.

I’m really just posting this to “bump” the thread. I tend to get uncharitable about this particular twisting of Scripture…

God bless us all, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health!

Ruthie

Thanks Ruthie, it’s surprising that there are not many evangelicals here, since I heard so much anti-Catholicism from them when I was involved in their church. I do know that they are gaining adherents very quickly, and I think more Christians should be aware of their beliefs, which are a weird mix of Scientology, Mormonism, Gnosticism, and Christianity.

 

[a_mirror_dimly]

Evangelical does not mean prosperity gospel. Like most evangelicals, I see the prosperity gospel as a shameful twisting of what scripture actually says.

 

[WyomingBob]

hi, my brother is a minister ,as is his wife, in the word-faith mold. He was converted by watching and listening to Rev. John Hagee. And while Hagee is not w-f per se, his teaching led my brother to Ken Copeland and Jessie Duplantis. I have tried and tried to reason with him but the idea that God will return one’s tithes multiplied 10 fold to 1000 fold is VERY seductive. It is also very corrosive to othodoxy. It isn’t so much that my brother believes he is a little God or Jesus, but that if one does as these word-faith ministers say he can live in “THE BLESSING” of God. Having or being in the Blessing will eventually bring one to such a state of ‘pureness’ ( not the best word but the idea is sound) that one so blessed can by his/her very words carry such creative force that they too can bring into existence. This may sound very muddled but it is a very muddled theology. It verges on not even being Christain.
The Copelands are the leaders in the word-faith/ the Blessing. Very little research is needed to discover how far from catholism or even protestanism. The major problem it seems to me is a very confused founding in scriptures. This poor grounding/understanding is not just a protestant problem but also a Catholic problem. It is also rooted in no single teaching body or authority in Protestantism.
I know I have rambled on and on but once I am on this subject it is so hard for me to let go. As I wrote earlier it is an extremely sudductive and corrisive ideology and I weep for the souls of the adherents.

 

[jfallaw]

Evangelical does not mean prosperity gospel. Like most evangelicals, I see the prosperity gospel as a shameful twisting of what scripture actually says.

My mistake, since the WF church I attended for two years called itself ‘evangelical’, I just assumed that was what WF was lol. Guess I made an ***-ume out of me lol

 

[jfallaw]

hi, my brother is a minister ,as is his wife, in the word-faith mold. He was converted by watching and listening to Rev. John Hagee. And while Hagee is not w-f per se, his teaching led my brother to Ken Copeland and Jessie Duplantis. I have tried and tried to reason with him but the idea that God will return one’s tithes multiplied 10 fold to 1000 fold is VERY seductive. It is also very corrosive to othodoxy. It isn’t so much that my brother believes he is a little God or Jesus, but that if one does as these word-faith ministers say he can live in “THE BLESSING” of God. Having or being in the Blessing will eventually bring one to such a state of ‘pureness’ ( not the best word but the idea is sound) that one so blessed can by his/her very words carry such creative force that they too can bring into existence. This may sound very muddled but it is a very muddled theology. It verges on not even being Christain.
The Copelands are the leaders in the word-faith/ the Blessing. Very little research is needed to discover how far from catholism or even protestanism. The major problem it seems to me is a very confused founding in scriptures. This poor grounding/understanding is not just a protestant problem but also a Catholic problem. It is also rooted in no single teaching body or authority in Protestantism.
I know I have rambled on and on but once I am on this subject it is so hard for me to let go. As I wrote earlier it is an extremely sudductive and corrisive ideology and I weep for the souls of the adherents.

I understand. When I was a member of the WF church here, I took the RHEMA correspondence course after the associate pastor recommended it. It consists entirely of books by Kenneth Hagin, founder of RHEMA bible college, which every pastor at the church graduated from. They mail you about two books per lesson, with a total of 32 lessons (at $25/lesson). It was after reading just four of his books that I knew something was seriously wrong.

I agree that many WF pastors don’t go so far as to say they believe that ‘born-again’ Christians are on the same level as Christ and have the power of God- basically becoming ‘little gods’ or ‘Christs’. Many probably don’t- the Holy Spirit surely works in their hearts enough for them to see the nonsense in that. The pastor of this church never went that far, even though he was trained at RHEMA and certainly was taught it. But maybe he does believe it and just knows that if he were to actually come out and say it, he would have trouble making the payment on his Lexus, because alot of people would do the sensible thing and leave the church, taking their tithes with them. They also don’t believe that Jesus’ shed blood was enough to atone for our sins. They think he had to ‘fight the devil’ during his three days in hell, and become ‘born-again’. Only then did he take on his divine nature, they say. They say that if death on a cross were sufficient, then any man could have died for us- which seems to say that they don’t believe Jesus was a perfect, sinless man, the only sinless man who ever existed. The unblemished sacrificial lamb.

I also know many people in the church who are constantly doubting their own faith because the ‘blessings’ they were promised never come. Although many are very blessed- just not financially. It is the financial aspects that drew me. Who doesn’t want to be the rich man who will easily enter heaven? I would recommend that you give your brother a link to newadvent.org/fathers/0207.htm
I recently discovered it. It’s a translation of St. Clement of Alexandria’s “Who is the rich man that shall be saved?”

 

[crownvic]

Thank you all for this topic. I was heavily influenced by the Word of Faith “movement” for about 3 years. I listened to a lot of Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, Oral Roberts, and Benny Hinn. Like many others, I was attracted to live the life of “Open Doors” and “The Blessing” It all sounded so wonderful. However, I started asking myself a lot of deep questions. Initially, I tried to find those answers within their theology. The only answers I got were “Work on building your faith” or “pray more so that God will open your eyes”. Needless to say, I wasn’t happy with those answers. That started a long search that eventually I ended up back in the Catholic church. I was convinced that I wouldn’t come back, however, I cannot deny truth. The Health & Wellness Gospel is what I call a Spiritual Ponzi Scheme and I pray that those involved see the Truth. This forum helped me greatly and I want to say THANK YOU to everyone on here. Your insights have helped tremendously.

“We are not called to be successfull, we are called to be faithful”

 

[Ruthie]

Spiritual Ponzi scheme! Excellent description!

Ruthie

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

hi, my brother is a minister ,as is his wife, in the word-faith mold. He was converted by watching and listening to Rev. John Hagee. And while Hagee is not w-f per se, his teaching led my brother to Ken Copeland and Jessie Duplantis. I have tried and tried to reason with him but the idea that God will return one’s tithes multiplied 10 fold to 1000 fold is VERY seductive. It is also very corrosive to othodoxy. It isn’t so much that my brother believes he is a little God or Jesus, but that if one does as these word-faith ministers say he can live in “THE BLESSING” of God. Having or being in the Blessing will eventually bring one to such a state of ‘pureness’ ( not the best word but the idea is sound) that one so blessed can by his/her very words carry such creative force that they too can bring into existence. This may sound very muddled but it is a very muddled theology. It verges on not even being Christain.
The Copelands are the leaders in the word-faith/ the Blessing. Very little research is needed to discover how far from catholism or even protestanism. The major problem it seems to me is a very confused founding in scriptures. This poor grounding/understanding is not just a protestant problem but also a Catholic problem. It is also rooted in no single teaching body or authority in Protestantism.
I know I have rambled on and on but once I am on this subject it is so hard for me to let go. As I wrote earlier it is an extremely sudductive and corrisive ideology and I weep for the souls of the adherents.

##** Where does Mark 8.34 fit into all this ? Jesus did not promise His followers squillions of greenbacks - “Come, follow me, and I will make you Nelson Rockefeller III” He did say something about a cross… **

 

[Jenna_Chiara]

I attended a Catholic bible study last night and the leader of the study was reading from a book called “Faith to Faith’ and the author was Kenneth Copeland. I had no idea who he was and assumed it was a catholic book since I was attending a Catholic bible study. The main speaker of the bible study kept mentioning things like ’ sickness is a curse and from Satan, if you ask God to cure you, you will 100% be cured” and obviously I immediately realized something was wrong here… he also said " poverty is a curse! not a blessing!" and obviously as a strong catholic i spoke up and said " but Jesus himself said to not have any other idols and to not worship money’ poverty is such a blessing! all suffering can be a blessing if we unite it with Jesus suffering on the cross. He told me I was completely wrong when I brought up the fact that the Saints frequently asked for sufferings and recieved illness! I am very upset that even Catholics are being swayed into the horrible false teaching of these Copelands! I am very thankful that God has infused the truth in my soul and I was not vulnerable to these teachings! However my friend who is recently coming back to God in the Catholic church has been manipulated into believing these teachings of the Copelands and everyone at the bible study thought i was crazy! How sad, that Catholics are so easily swayed.

 

[crownvic]

Hey Jenna, thanks for your post. I’m glad that you are strong in your faith. God Bless you! I will pray for your friend. A lot has happened to me in the past two years since I posted on this thread. I will spare you the details, but I have personally seen the the darkest side of what this false teaching brings.

There is a blog out the net that your friend should review. I’m not “recommending” it or endorsing it in any way, but it brought up some interesting points your friend may want to consider. Just google “Kenneth copeland blog”.

Also, to not so shamelessly plug the radio show, the episodes with Sharon lee giganti (sorry about the spelling) and her background might help. I think there are a lot of similar themes in WOF and New Age.

 

[sallybutler]

someone on another thread suggested a book about this subject. While it is written from by a protestant, it is an excellent (albeit scary) description of what these individuals have said and taught. It also discusses the biblical quotes the WoF people like to use.

Christianity in Crisis by Hank Hanegraaff. I was able to get it as an e-book from Kindle, it is also available in hard-copies. As I read what some of these preachers say and how they twist the Bible, I want to shake them. One in particular is that they are all positive that Job was a failure that brought it on himself (good reason that people should not be reading the bible without some competent guidance). Another is that God is about 6 feet tall and around 200 pounds. My favorite is that Jesus was really wealthy and wore the equivalent of designer clothes.

I’ve only read about 1/4 of it. But as a result, I will be saying extra rosaries for my mom. She liked Joyce Meyers and Benny Hinn. I suspect she ignored some of their teachings, especially those that related to God being unable to work in this world without our permission. However, some of their teachings about illnesses and financial goodies that can come your way are very seductive.

I’m sure she would appreciate any additional rosaries people might say for her. She always had a great love for Mary and never stopped using her rosary. I could also tell from her bible where she thought these preachers were wrong. And now that she is with the Lord, I know she is happy and not listening to any of these preachers.

 

[anjoh66]

I will be saying extra rosaries for my mom. She liked Joyce Meyers and Benny Hinn. I suspect she ignored some of their teachings, especially those that related to God being unable to work in this world without our permission. However, some of their teachings about illnesses and financial goodies that can come your way are very seductive.

I’m sure she would appreciate any additional rosaries people might say for her. She always had a great love for Mary and never stopped using her rosary. I could also tell from her bible where she thought these preachers were wrong. And now that she is with the Lord, I know she is happy and not listening to any of these preachers.

One interesting thing about some of those WoF preachers is that they somehow seems to approach the Catholic church little by little.

Benny Hinn use to boast about his upbringing in a catholic school and he was also present at the funeral of blessed JP II. His great role model, Kathryn Kuhlmann, used to have catholic priests on stage when she ministered.

In my country of Sweden we have a famous pastor, named Ulf Ekman, who was trained in USA in the Word of Faith teachings at the Oral Roberts University.

ulfekman.org/default.aspx?idStructure=8766

The interesting is that he has drawn closer to the Catholic church and its teachings and use to participate in Catholic gatherings and has even had the Bishop of Sweden as guest at his church.

This video with Patti Mansfield shows some of his approach to the Church, and to the Blessed Virgin Mary.
youtube.com/watch?v=r-q2SLq-Uls

He has in several of his recent writings shown approach to the catholic teachings about the Eucharist, where he is now teaching his followers about the real presence.

All this has of course created rumours among the evangelicals, that he secretly has converted and is trying to take his whole church with him and bring it under the banner of the Pope.

Also his son, Jonathan Ekman, has with the good will of his Father Ulf baptised his new born baby daughter, which is contrary to the teachings of WoF.

Ulf has tried to institute the practice of infant baptism but has met resistance from his co pastors who still wish to keep the practise of adult baptism only.

Anyhow it is interesting to see where all this will end up.