Word of God

[Khalfan]

‘IMMANUAL’ is not a name, but rather a title. It’s kind of like referring to George W. Bush as ‘Mr President’; ‘Mr President’ is not his name.

His real name, Yahshua - which in Hebrew means “Yahweh Saves”, has been mistranslated across cultures, ages, and languages as ‘Esau’ and ‘Jesus’ etc.

If it was prophecy of GOD, that Bush will be called ‘Mr. President’ I would say, it is fulfilled.

Isa 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name -Immanuel.

That was his name supposed to be. Did anyone ever call Jesus (pbuh) ‘Immanuel’? I don’t know where they got ‘Yahshua’ from and why the prophecy of God was not fulfilled.

Did God call, ‘Yahshua’ or ‘Immanual’, in the beginning?

Very good. Now you are starting to see the wrath of God from our sins.

But don’t stop there! Keep reading the bible! And you’ll see that the law giver Himself has offered Himself as the sacrifice for our sins, and the laws of the Old Testament have been re-written with the sacrifice of the perfect lamb, Jesus Christ. And if you too choose to follow Jesus Christ, then you too can be spared from the wrath of God.

You’re doing well, Khalfan; Keep reading the bible!!!

Num 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

If GOD wanted Moses (pbuh) to kill all the little chidren for no reason, and the words that God said to Moses (pbuh) was Jesus (pbuh) getting revealed, I am sorry but I don’t find a loving GOD.

Can God sacrifice himself for our sins?

Eze 18:20 "The person who sins will die The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.

I think, this too was Jesus (pbuh) getting revealed, right? God himself said (revealed Jesus (pbuh)), ‘the wicked should die for his sins’ and later God himself changad his mind and suicide!!

Didn’t Jesus (pbuh) know ‘himself’ (words of God in Eze 18:20)?

 

[Khalfan]

In a way, yes. After all, the Fullness of Divine Revelation is wound up in his Person.

God is doing two things in this passage:

1. Demonstrating his Love for Israel by establishing them as a people despite all their rebellion;

By killing the little children?

Num 31:17 …kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

And later the same God said, ‘love your enemies’ (including children and the woman that hath known man by lying with)!! to show, God loves only some, not all !!! right?

And,

1. Passing judgment on the lands. It is not as though God ruthlessly takes human life without reason. In fact, he refused to destroy the Amorites until their deeds warranted such intense judgment, even though he knew that it WOULD eventually happen (Gen. 15:16); he wanted to relent as long as possible.

Children were killed for their deeds!!! And you say it was Jesus (pbuh) getting revealed???

He maintains a fundamental truth about himself in your passage of choice:

He is compassionate and also just. We see this very clearly in the Sacrifice of Calvary, in which God, in order to appease his wrath, requires an Offering be made for the sins of mankind,

Isn’t God (Father God, not Jesus God) merciful? Do God need sacrifice to appease his wrath? What God demanded to get forgiven of sin is,

Eze 18:21 "But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Eze 18:30 “Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct,” declares the Lord GOD. "Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you.

I think, this too was Jesus (pbuh) getting revealed, right? God himself said (revealed Jesus (pbuh)), if we repent, our sins will be forgiven and later God himself changad his mind and suicide for our sins!!! strange.

but in his Love and Mercy he does not want it to be his people to suffer;

You are saying, God changed his mind.

instead, he chooses to give* himself*

in their place, even if they be unresponsive. For the sake of ONE soul, we maintain (yours or mine), he still would have bore the Cross and subjected himself to death. So radical is the burning passion of our God for intimacy with his people.

Do you say, GOD DEAD on the cross?

Continued.

 

[Khalfan]

God demonstrates his kindness even in his dealings with Sodom and Gomorrah. “If I can find but ten righteous men there, I shall spare it,” he says. Sadly, he could not. (Still, he did not suffer it to have the innocent and the guilty share the same fate. He sent angels to rescue Lot and his family, after all!)

Were they Israelites?

If he was willing to give a chance to such wretched cities as these, how much more to each of us!

Jesus Christ is the Word of God in this sense:

The Word is the means by which God reveals himself to us. Christ reveals most perfectly the Father. In him we see the tremendous Love of God, clearer than ever before.

I can’t find the love of God in the command to kill innocent children.

“No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us.” [John 1:18]

“God showed how much he loved us by sending his one and only Son into the world so that we might have eternal life through him. This is real love—not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a sacrifice to take away our sins.” [1 John 4:9-10]

In what form Jesus (pbuh) was before his birth?

Peace, friend, in your search! (The Love of God is strewn all throughout the Scriptures; look closely!)

I am in the begenning of NT and OT.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

How can the ‘word’ of God be the God?

John 1:2 **He was **in the beginning with God.

In what form HE WAS?

 

[MHalsey]

If it was prophecy of GOD, that Bush will be called ‘Mr. President’ I would say, it is fulfilled.

Isa 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name -Immanuel.

That was his name supposed to be. Did anyone ever call Jesus (pbuh) ‘Immanuel’? I don’t know where they got ‘Yahshua’ from and why the prophecy of God was not fulfilled.

Does it matter? Your getting caught up in semantics and not looking at the meaning. In the first chapter of Matthew’s gospel he refers to this passage:

22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet:
23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel,” which means “God is with us.”

There is also a reference to Jesus as Emmanuel in Matthew 28:20. The very last lines of the Gospel of Matthew:

19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age."

Note the reference to the Trinity right before Jesus says to the apostles, “I am with you always, until the end of the age” Who is with us always? God is with us always. In other words, Emmanuel.

Did God call, ‘Yahshua’ or ‘Immanual’, in the beginning?

?? You’re getting caught up in semantics again.

Num 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

If GOD wanted Moses (pbuh) to kill all the little chidren for no reason, and the words that God said to Moses (pbuh) was Jesus (pbuh) getting revealed, I am sorry but I don’t find a loving GOD.

You’ve brought this up many times before. How do we know the killing of the children was for no reason? Maybe it’s because young midianite males become adult midianite warriors who would attempt to destroy the Israelites.

Can God sacrifice himself for our sins?

You will not accept the answer, because to do so would be to reject Islam. But the answer is a definite YES!!!

Eze 18:20 "The person who sins will die The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.

I think, this too was Jesus (pbuh) getting revealed, right? God himself said (revealed Jesus (pbuh)), ‘the wicked should die for his sins’ and later God himself changad his mind and suicide!!

Didn’t Jesus (pbuh) know ‘himself’ (words of God in Eze 18:20)?

This was the repudiation of an old proverb. Read the whole chapter. It is very enlightening.

Turning away from sin is easier said than done. Jesus even said we should be perfect, just as our Father in Heaven is perfect (paraphrasing). But God also knows we cannot achieve this perfection without his help. That’s why He sent his only Son to save us from our sins.

One last thing, God did not commit suicide. He allowed himself to be put to death as a sacrifice for our sins.

 

[The_Truthinator]

By killing the little children?

Returning once again to the story of Sodom: “Before they went to bed, all the townsmen of Sodom, **both young and old–all the people to the last man–**closed in on the house. They called to Lot and said to him, ‘Where are the men who came to your house tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have intimacies with them.’” [Genesis 19:4-5]

Hard as it is to imagine, the children are not always exempt from the sins of their parents; they can be just as engulfed as the adults. God’s judgment against the people of the land, I remain convinced, is just. We might understand this as sparing future generations from the sins—the idolatry—of their forefathers. It might be a method of protecting his children, Israel, as it was in the slaughter of the Amalekites. (The seed of the ***one ***Amalekite woman who was spared ended up becoming Haman, who in the Book of Esther is presented as nearly exterminating all the Jews throughout Persia!) In any case, we do not have to FULLY understand, but I consent even in my ignorance. I know too well the character of my God to question his actions, and I have faith that the innocent were granted their recompense, and the guilty, their judgment.

Num 31:17 …kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

And later the same God said, ‘love your enemies’ (including children and the woman that hath known man by lying with)!! to show, God loves only some, not all !!! right?

Forgiveness and grace were ultimately manifested in the Person of Christ. Still, throughout the Old Testament we see *constantly *God’s Love! Even there God is seen telling us to do good to our enemies: Proverbs 25:21. But before God can bring about universal redemption, he must first establish the People from whose issue the Moshiach and Savior of the world would come. Israel is God’s great love affair. I consider it an honor to be a part of the “new Israel.” I know all-too-well his Love for his People—how breath-taking and awe-inspiring it is.

Children were killed for their deeds!!! And you say it was Jesus (pbuh) getting revealed???

I have done my best to cover this in my opening comments. I cannot explain to you the mind of God, however. I can only speculate.

Isn’t God (Father God, not Jesus God) merciful? Do God need sacrifice to appease his wrath? What God demanded to get forgiven of sin is,

Of course he is! But he is also just. Neither aspect of his nature cancels out the other. If God were merciful and not just, never punishing backsliding, then he’d be a pretty lousy Father. The parent that doesn’t discipline is most certainly not a good one at all. “Those who spare the rod of discipline hate their children. Those who love their children care enough to discipline them.” [Proverbs 13:24] And even his punishments are inspired by Love: “For the LORD corrects those he loves, just as a father corrects a child in whom he delights.” [Proverbs 3:12]

Eze 18:21 "But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Eze 18:30 “Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct,” declares the Lord GOD. "Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you.

Yes, this is repentance: Turning from sin to God. Yet you must realize that the Law was inadequate to bring salvation. It was sufficient for the time being, as it gave the Israelites parameters and told them what God desires of them, but they, corrupt human beings like us all, were incapable of keeping with perfection the decrees of God. It showed the world its guiltiness—its need for a Savior. In this respect, yes, certainly the Law revealed Christ! Remember also that to God, who is beyond time, the Sacrifice of Christ is ever present. In anticipation of his redemptive work, God spared his people: “They are justified freely by his grace through the redemption in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as an expiation, through faith, by his blood, to prove his righteousness because of the forgiveness of sins **previously committed, through the forbearance of God—**to prove his righteousness in the present time, that he might be righteous and justify the one who has faith in Jesus.” [Romans 3:24-26]

Continued . . .

 

[The_Truthinator]

I think, this too was Jesus (pbuh) getting revealed, right? God himself said (revealed Jesus (pbuh)), if we repent, our sins will be forgiven and later God himself changad his mind and suicide for our sins!!! strange.

You are saying, God changed his mind.

No; I’m saying the stage wasn’t right yet for Calvary. Before this could happen, God had to establish a People to reveal his character—his justice and his infinite Love—to, as well as establish a Law to convict the world of its sin. Only when people saw their own wretchedness and the radical Mercy of God would they turn to him. It was at this moment that God All-Knowing brought forth from the line of Jacob his Son, of the line of David according to the flesh, divine in nature and eternal in origins. (There is a difference between committing suicide and taking a bullet for someone else, by the way.)

Do you say, GOD DEAD on the cross?

Did he die? In regards to his fleshy, temporal body, yes. We even maintain God the Son endured Hell for those three days, thereby taking upon himself the full and undeserved penalties for sin. God never cased to be in control, though. If you mean, was there a moment when God wasn’t, when he was simply gone or dead in Spirit, then no; we do not maintain that.

Were they Israelites?

Was who Israelites? God’s Love transcends JUST the people of Israel. Jonah is a great book that shows this. However, it was necessary that he choose someone to reveal his infinite Love to. He choose initially Abraham and his descendants, appropriately, as his Son finds his lineage wound up in them. The catholicity of his Compassion is seen many times in the Old Testament, but, once again, is seen clearest in the New. As it is said, “The New Testament is hidden in the Old, the Old unveiled in the New.”

I can’t find the love of God in the command to kill innocent children.

If I may reiterate: Had not that ONE Amalekite woman and her child been spared, the people of Israel wouldn’t have been nearly exterminated during the days of Xerxes by Haman, of her bloodline. Who are we to profess knowledge superior to God? God commanded the Amalekites to be destroyed, wiped out completely, because they would endanger his beloved Bride if not. The command was not carried out as it should have been, and the result was nearly the destruction of a People—a holocaust of sorts. I trust my God’s command, knowing his discipline reveals his Love, even when it is not always clear.

In what form Jesus (pbuh) was before his birth?

He was God the Son, eternally begotten of the Father, one in Being and Essence. In other words: He was God both before, during, and after the Incarnation.

I am in the begenning of NT and OT.

Cool. Keep it up! These questions are good. Remain skeptical but steer away from instant dubiousness.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

How can the ‘word’ of God be the God?

Think about it: The Word of God carries all his authority and power in it, does it not? God spoke “Light!” to the darkness, and there was light, after all. The Word is more than God’s means of creating, but is the way in which God reveals himself to us, as well. Christ is the Revelation—and therefore, the Word—of God. The Word, from this stance, is little more than a synonym for the transcendent, all-powerful God of Creation.

John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.

In what form HE WAS?

He was, and is, and always will be, God.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… If GOD wanted Moses (pbuh) to kill all the little chidren for no reason, and the words that God said to Moses (pbuh) was Jesus (pbuh) getting revealed, I am sorry but I don’t find a loving GOD…

Once again, very good! You are starting to see the tragedy and heart-ache of innocent children being killed. God knows how awful this is.

Can you imagine how sad it would be for a parent to lose their child? That’s how God felt when the innocent Jesus was killed. :crying:

Now, despite His sadness, God still offered His son to be killed. Why? For us! He loves us! :extrahappy:

Keep going, Khalfan! Keep reading the bible!

(Apologies for not answering all the other questions; I’m trying to keep it simple, because this thread is getting too complicated.)

 

[Khalfan]

Once again, very good! You are starting to see the tragedy and heart-ache of innocent children being killed. God knows how awful this is.

Can you imagine how sad it would be for a parent to lose their child? That’s how God felt when the innocent Jesus was killed. :crying:

Now, despite His sadness, God still offered His son to be killed. Why? For us! He loves us! :extrahappy:

Keep going, Khalfan! Keep reading the bible!

(Apologies for not answering all the other questions; I’m trying to keep it simple, because this thread is getting too complicated.)

I like the way you answer. Many things said, but no answer for the question. No problem. I can work on what you said.

God offered his Son? I heard, it was God on the cross. Wasn’t it?

Why God offered his son for us? How is it beneficial for us? If it is for our sins, remember Jesus (pbhu) only said,

Eze 18:20 "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.

He only said, no one can pay for our sins and we ourselves will die (payment) for it. He only said, we will be judged according to our actions.

Eze 18:30 “Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct,” declares the Lord GOD…

He only said, the only way to get forgiven of our sin and its payment is to repent and return to God.

Eze 18:30 …"Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you.

How can Jesus (pbuh) contradict himself?!!

 

[Khalfan]

No; I’m saying the stage wasn’t right yet for Calvary. Before this could happen, God had to establish a People to reveal his character—his justice and his infinite Love—to, as well as establish a Law to convict the world of its sin. Only when people saw their own wretchedness and the radical Mercy of God would they turn to him. It was at this moment that God All-Knowing brought forth from the line of Jacob his Son, of the line of David according to the flesh, divine in nature and eternal in origins. (There is a difference between committing suicide and taking a bullet for someone else, by the way.)

Does that answer my question? No. I know very well the overall theology of Christianity. That is not my question.

If Jesus (pbuh) knew, his sacrifice on cross (he is omnipotent, he must have knew it), why would he say,

Eze 18:30 “Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct,” declares the Lord GOD. "Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you.

If repenting only was enough for God to forgive us, God wouldn’t let anyone kill himself on cross. By the way, do you think anyone can kill GOD? I don’t think so.

Did he die? In regards to his fleshy, temporal body, yes. We even maintain God the Son endured Hell for those three days, thereby taking upon himself the full and undeserved penalties for sin. God never cased to be in control, though. If you mean, was there a moment when God wasn’t, when he was simply gone or dead in Spirit, then no; we do not maintain that.

If you say, the spirit of God was not dead, what endured the hell, the flesh of God or the spirit od God?

In whose control that fleshly body was, of God in him or the man in him?

Was who Israelites? God’s Love transcends JUST the people of Israel. Jonah is a great book that shows this. However, it was necessary that he choose someone to reveal his infinite Love to. He choose initially Abraham and his descendants, appropriately, as his Son finds his lineage wound up in them. The catholicity of his Compassion is seen many times in the Old Testament, but, once again, is seen clearest in the New. As it is said, “The New Testament is hidden in the Old, the Old unveiled in the New.”

I asked about Lot (pbuh) and his family. Were they Israelites? Becasue if they were saved by God, there is no wonder. God is almost always there for Israelites.

If I may reiterate: Had not that ONE Amalekite woman and her child been spared, the people of Israel wouldn’t have been nearly exterminated during the days of Xerxes by Haman, of her bloodline. Who are we to profess knowledge superior to God? God commanded the Amalekites to be destroyed, wiped out completely, because they would endanger his beloved Bride if not. The command was not carried out as it should have been, and the result was nearly the destruction of a People—a holocaust of sorts. I trust my God’s command, knowing his discipline reveals his Love, even when it is not always clear.

So it is not clear for you. No problem, I agree, it was a ‘kind’ of love.

He was God the Son, eternally begotten of the Father, one in Being and Essence. In other words: He was God both before, during, and after the Incarnation.

He was, and is, and always will be, God.

If he was GOD, we can read Jn 1:1 as,

John 1:1 In the beginning was ‘GOD’, and ‘GOD’ was with God, and ‘GOD’ was God.

Is it how you understand it was? Can you just tell me, what you understand from ‘GOD was with GOD’?

Cool. Keep it up! These questions are good. Remain skeptical but steer away from instant dubiousness.

I am trying to go to the detail. Not just what you are told and learned.

Think about it: The Word of God carries all his authority and power in it, does it not? God spoke “Light!” to the darkness, and there was light, after all. The Word is more than God’s means of creating, but is the way in which God reveals himself to us, as well. Christ is the Revelation—and therefore, the Word—of God. The Word, from this stance, is little more than a synonym for the transcendent, all-powerful God of Creation.

I don’t understand the logic. What was powerful, the word or the source of the word (That is GOD)?

 

[davidv]

If he was GOD, we can read Jn 1:1 as,

John 1:1 In the beginning was ‘GOD’, and ‘GOD’ was with God, and ‘GOD’ was God.

Is it how you understand it was? Can you just tell me, what you understand from ‘GOD was with GOD’?
I don’t understand the logic. What was powerful, the word or the source of the word (That is GOD)?

Since John 1:1 is partly about an aspect of the trinity, logic is insufficient. The idea of the trinity - three distinct persons in full and complete communion with one another, yet only one “being”, is a mystery revealed by God. Since our thoughts fall short of God’s, we will never completely understand it.

 

[davidv]

I don’t understand the logic. What was powerful, the word or the source of the word (That is GOD)?

Both - the Word (Jesus) though a distinct person, is God.

 

[Khalfan]

Returning once again to the story of Sodom: “Before they went to bed, all the townsmen of Sodom, **both young and old–all the people to the last man–**closed in on the house. They called to Lot and said to him, ‘Where are the men who came to your house tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have intimacies with them.’” [Genesis 19:4-5]

Hard as it is to imagine, the children are not always exempt from the sins of their parents; they can be just as engulfed as the adults. God’s judgment against the people of the land, I remain convinced, is just. We might understand this as sparing future generations from the sins—the idolatry—of their forefathers. It might be a method of protecting his children, Israel, as it was in the slaughter of the Amalekites. (The seed of the ***one ***Amalekite woman who was spared ended up becoming Haman, who in the Book of Esther is presented as nearly exterminating all the Jews throughout Persia!) In any case, we do not have to FULLY understand, but I consent even in my ignorance. I know too well the character of my God to question his actions, and I have faith that the innocent were granted their recompense, and the guilty, their judgment.

Fine. So it is clear that, Jesus (pbuh) was not only teaching love and to love the enymies (even of God). I can agree with you.

Forgiveness and grace were ultimately manifested in the Person of Christ. Still, throughout the Old Testament we see *constantly *God’s Love! Even there God is seen telling us to do good to our enemies: Proverbs 25:21. But before God can bring about universal redemption, he must first establish the People from whose issue the Moshiach and Savior of the world would come. Israel is God’s great love affair. I consider it an honor to be a part of the “new Israel.” I know all-too-well his Love for his People—how breath-taking and awe-inspiring it is.

Isn’t it the same Israelites who were in eager and enjoyed killing GOD? And you wanna be part of it!!! No wonder.

I have done my best to cover this in my opening comments. I cannot explain to you the mind of God, however. I can only speculate.

No problem.

Of course he is! But he is also just. Neither aspect of his nature cancels out the other. If God were merciful and not just, never punishing backsliding, then he’d be a pretty lousy Father. The parent that doesn’t discipline is most certainly not a good one at all. “Those who spare the rod of discipline hate their children. Those who love their children care enough to discipline them.” [Proverbs 13:24] And even his punishments are inspired by Love: “For the LORD corrects those he loves, just as a father corrects a child in whom he delights.” [Proverbs 3:12]

And is it fair to punish one good child for the wrong doing of another naughty child? Ezekiel 18:20 answers that.

Yes, this is repentance: Turning from sin to God. Yet you must realize that the Law was inadequate to bring salvation. It was sufficient for the time being, as it gave the Israelites parameters and told them what God desires of them, but they, corrupt human beings like us all, were incapable of keeping with perfection the decrees of God.

‘It was sufficient for the time being’, then what, later God felt it is not enough?

It showed the world its guiltiness—its need for a Savior.

On what basis, you said that?

In this respect, yes, certainly the Law revealed Christ! Remember also that to God, who is beyond time, the Sacrifice of Christ is ever present.

Hold on… you just said, the repentence was enough, then it turned to the need of sacrifice.

In anticipation of his redemptive work, God spared his people: “They are justified freely by his grace through the redemption in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as an expiation, through faith, by his blood, to prove his righteousness because of the forgiveness of sins previously committed, through the forbearance of God—

to prove his righteousness in the present time, that he might be righteous and justify the one who has faith in Jesus.” [Romans 3:24-26]

Continued . . .

Hold on… earlier God (remember word of God is Jesus (pbuh)) said,

Eze 18:30 “Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct,” declares the Lord GOD. "Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you.

Then the law with sinners are changed to,

“…to prove his righteousness in the present time, that he might be righteous and justify the one who has faith in Jesus.” [Romans 3:24-26]

to the faith in Jesus (pbuh).

Now what is with the sin and the law about it, which is below?

Eze 18:20 "The person who sins will die. …wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.

 

[Khalfan]

Both - the Word (Jesus) though a distinct person, is God.

The ‘word’ was dependent of the source and God cannot be dependent.

And the source was another distinct person. 2 Gods?!! Do you know what you are saying?

 

[Khalfan]

Since John 1:1 is partly about an aspect of the trinity, logic is insufficient. The idea of the trinity - three distinct persons in full and complete communion with one another, yet only one “being”, is a mystery revealed by God. Since our thoughts fall short of God’s, we will never completely understand it.

The topic is not trinity. And the logic I was asking is not for trinity, but for the answer by Truthinator.

Think about it: The Word of God carries all his authority and power in it, does it not? God spoke “Light!” to the darkness, and there was light, after all. …The Word, from this stance, is little more than a synonym for the transcendent, all-powerful God of Creation.

What was powerful, the Word or the source of the word (That is GOD)?

 

[Khalfan]

Does it matter? Your getting caught up in semantics and not looking at the meaning. In the first chapter of Matthew’s gospel he refers to this passage:

So? My question is not answered. Why the prophecy of Jesus (pbuh) was not fulfilled.

There is also a reference to Jesus as Emmanuel in Matthew 28:20. The very last lines of the Gospel of Matthew:

Note the reference to the Trinity right before Jesus says to the apostles, “I am with you always, until the end of the age” Who is with us always? God is with us always. In other words, Emmanuel.

I don’t see any one calling him ‘Immanual’. Do you?

?? You’re getting caught up in semantics again.

No. This question have a context. Read the original. First he said, God said ‘Jesus’. Then on this question he withdrawn that and said, it was something refering to Jesus, and it was not a word by sound even.

You’ve brought this up many times before. How do we know the killing of the children was for no reason? Maybe it’s because young midianite males become adult midianite warriors who would attempt to destroy the Israelites.

Wasn’t that another stupid reason from you? If God wanted to kill all those who will do sin against God, till end of days, he could decide, not to let them take birth ever and let only the good ones to be born and live.

The point is, those children never got a chance to choose their life, to live as per law of God or to live against it. And you say, it was the word of God (the commandmend to Moses (pbuh)) which in other words Jesus (pbuh) getting revealed. Do you see a just God here? Now don’t say something like Truthinator said, ‘we have to believe it was just, since it was from God’.

You will not accept the answer, because to do so would be to reject Islam. But the answer is a definite YES!!!

And the sacrifice was paid to whom? Why God didn’t demand any sacrifice in Eze 18? Why he said the sinners will have to bear the penalty, and one cannot pay for the sin of other?

This was the repudiation of an old proverb. Read the whole chapter. It is very enlightening.

Can you summerise that?

Turning away from sin is easier said than done. Jesus even said we should be perfect, just as our Father in Heaven is perfect (paraphrasing). But God also knows we cannot achieve this perfection without his help. That’s why He sent his only Son to save us from our sins.

I don’t find that condition for perfecion in Eze 18. Instead it says,

Eze 18:30 “Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct,” declares the Lord GOD. "Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you.

Repenting and turning back from sin is the condition to be perfect.

One last thing, God did not commit suicide. He allowed himself to be put to death as a sacrifice for our sins.

God cannot be killed or dead. Jesus (pbuh) only said, no one can pay for the sin of others, and if you say, he himself did it for others, that is total nonesense.

 

[dessert]

In what sense Christians say, Jesus (pbuh) is the word of God?

**The entire content of Revelation as contained
in the Holy Bible and proclaimed in the Church,
In John’s Gospel, God’s “Word” means his only begotten Son, who is the fullness of God’s Revelation and who took flesh
(the Word Incarnate) and became man for the sake of our salvation.

**

 

[Khalfan]

**The entire content of Revelation as contained
in the Holy Bible and proclaimed in the Church,
In John’s Gospel, God’s “Word” means his only begotten Son, who is the fullness of God’s Revelation and who took flesh
(the Word Incarnate) and became man for the sake of our salvation.

**

While Jesus (pbuh) was alive, the words he spoke was of God?

 

[dessert]

While Jesus (pbuh) was alive, the words he spoke was of God?

Yes, as the Holy Spirit reveals the truth to you.

 

[dessert]

1 Sam;21-11
A hymn attributed to Hannah, mother of Samuel…

Luke 1; 46-56
The canticle of Mary, Blessed Mother,…
the Magnificat; although Mary is praised for being the mother of the Lord and because of her belief, she reacts as the servant in a psalm of praise, the magnificat.

"Blessed are those who believe…"
Luke 1;45

 

[davidv]

The ‘word’ was dependent of the source and God cannot be dependent.

And the source was another distinct person. 2 Gods?!! Do you know what you are saying?

I knew exactly what I was saying. You did not understand what I said. Please read this article on the “Trinity” so you may better understand what I said.
newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm