Words of JW Baptism

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I know how they got me. It may shed light on your friend’s situation who was also raised Catholic. The way the Witnesses get you is through pride. It’s very psychological, but it’s also the oldest trick in the book…or should I say “Oldest Trick in the Book.”

None of us knows everything about our particular religion. There are mysteries that transcend our understanding. This goes for practically all of us, regardless of creed. Even the psalmist acknowledged this when he wrote:

O Lord, my heart is not proud,
nor haughty my eyes.
I have not gone after things too great,
nor marvels beyond me.

Truly, I have set my soul
in tranquility and silence.
As a weaned child on its mother,
as a weaned child is my soul within me.

O Israel, wait for the Lord,
both now and forever.–Psalm 131.

The Jehovah’s Witnesses tell you this is wrong. They tell you that we have questions because God wants us to have and find the definitive answers. “Would a loving God give you the desire to know the answers to all the great mysteries in life and not supply a way for you to have them now?”

Of course, you answer. If God is loving (and I know God is) then surely he would supply these answers.

Jehovah’s Witnesses tell you they have all the answers to life’s greatest mysteries: “They are all found in the Bible.”

If you agree to this, they begin a process of indoctrination whereby the Bible is reduced to no more than the status of a child’s Magic 8 Ball…inspired of God, of course, but no more practical than a textbook that supplies all the answers for life: how to dress, how to think, what to believe, what jokes to laugh at and which to give a frown to, what religion to belong to, even how to correctly fill out your tax forms!

Suddenly you have all the answers. They teach you to tell others that you have different beliefs because you yourself did all the research into the Bible and now you know for yourself. Of course no one learns these JW doctrines by themselves, but that doesn’t stop them from acting like they came up with their newfound convictions due to their own efforts.

Sadly, if you get this far it is because you fell for the greatest “straw man” pitch ever! Did any of you see the fallacy when I brought it up?

The straw man pitch the Witnesses use is this: The claim that God intends us to have all the answers to all life’s mysteries.

As the psalm I quoted above demonstrates, God never promises we will have all the answers like God does. Ever read the book of Job? It begins with Job asking God why he and other good people suffer and ends with God asking Job: Who are you to ask “why”?–Job 42:1-6.

Ever read Acts? Remember the first chapter when Christ’s own apostles want to know the details about the coming Kingdom of God, and do you remember the answer from Jesus? He told them the answer doesn’t belong to humans.–Acts 1:6-7.

How about Genesis? Remember the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Bad that the snake told Eve would give her the same knowledge that God had about life, the universe, and everything? How did that turn out?

It’s the oldest straw man pitch in the book. It targets us at the center of our sinfulness and desire to have what we are not entitled to. They get you the way the original serpent got Eve: "Your eyes will be opened and you will be like God who knows good and evil.”–Genesis 3:5.

It’s not that God doesn’t want us to have any answers or keep us in the dark. He does want to teach us, but on his own terms and in his own way.

Your friend is caught in a snare of ego-centric pride. She now “knows for herself,” even though she was hand-fed all she now believes from other Witnesses. Now she knows “the truth!”

It’s the Oldest Trick in the Book.
The above is the impression I get of her. She has all the answers.

For the JW there is no mystery to God. I always thought how sad for them. I often wondered about that. Now I know. Thanks For me it would be boring not to discovery some little mystery about God for myself.

I never thought about what you have written above. It is an eye opener. And here I thought gee how smart she is finding out all this stuff on her own!

Sometimes I read some of the study books she lends me and I think gee how childish with the questions at the end of each chapter and being told what paragraph the answer will be in.

I am off to Mass now. Thanks for sharing. I enjoy your enlightening and honest posts.
Thanks
God Bless
 
When I was baptized as JW (in 1992) the elder said: ‘I baptize you in the name of the Father , the Son, and the Holy Spirit’ as he ‘dipped’ me in the water. Whether they still use the baptismal formula I do not know…

As per the post above: If Catholics read the Bible and studied their own beliefs nobody could “get” them or “trick” them. Their enemies are not JW, LDS or Protestants, but their own ignorance. The only people I met in my RC Church who know their ‘stuff’ are those who converted as adults…
 
When I was baptized as JW (in 1992) the elder said: ‘I baptize you in the name of the Father , the Son, and the Holy Spirit’ as he ‘dipped’ me in the water. Whether they still use the baptismal formula I do not know…

As per the post above: If Catholics read the Bible and studied their own beliefs nobody could “get” them or “trick” them. Their enemies are not JW, LDS or Protestants, but their own ignorance. The only people I met in my RC Church who know their ‘stuff’ are those who converted as adults…
This may have been in a rare incident because the instruction from the Governing Body does not make allowance for such a pronouncement. Knowing from experience that many elders and ministerial servants would on occasion go against directives, this doesn’t surprise me. Perhaps this elder had a conscience and realized that uttering this formula was important. Sadly I am sure he was later corrected or disfellowshipped if he did not comply with the instruction from the Governing Body on JW baptism procedure.

And I agree wholeheartedly with you. If you know your religion, the Witnesses can’t use their techniques to any effect. I know that my ignorance as a youth was what they counted on to get me in and keep me as long as I did–which is why I was able to leave once I grew up.
 
Thanks Matt. I am glad that I can help in some way.

You hit the nail on the head and are missing nothing. The JWs engage in no acts of worship like the Mass or the Divine Liturgy. They do not use the Psalter for prayer. Meditative and contemplative prayer, even Lectio Divina are not allowed. Except for saying prayers that have be thought up on the spot and singing from their songbook, they engage in nothing else that matches the liturgy of worship once practiced at the Temple and carried over into both the synagogue and the Christian churches of today.

While some of them might protest and claim that their study and preaching work are considered worship of God, this is due to their belief that God no longer deals with persons in mystical ways. For them “spirituality” is little more than studying their own publications–and the “studying” isn’t even studying. It is just underlying words and phrases in their books.

And yes, I am enjoying life like never before!
Wouldn’t the JW’s consider their “Bible Study” Lectio?
 
WOW! I just called the HQ of JWs in Canada and asked the question. The person didn’t want to answer it but eventually said:“No, they don’t say the formula”. So here, you have it from the horses’s mouth. I got baptized in a different country, right after the fall of the communist regime, so maybe the elders there didn’t know it back then.
 
Wouldn’t the JW’s consider their “Bible Study” Lectio?
Jehovah’s Witnesses refrain from doing anything that “smacks” of Catholicism. They also are forbidden by their Governing Body to engage in any type of spiritual meditation.

Lectio divina involves the reading and re-reading of a Bible passage as a form of meditation that opens one up to spiritual communion with God. The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that meditation can indeed open the mind but only as a target for demons.

The “Bible study” of Jehovah’s Witnesses is not anything like an actual study of Scripture nor are members introduced to the basic skills needed for even the most elementary of exegetical approaches. They only use the Bible in connection with reading one of their indoctrination publications, like The Watchtower magazine or one of their brochures or books. These publications contain Witness doctrine with cited “proof-texts” scattered throughout. Since “Bible study” students look up these proof-text passages in the Bible while they read these publications, the process is referred to as “Bible study.”

The Jehovah’s Witnesses have nothing like the study editions of Scripture that Catholics and Protestants and Jews do. You will not find anything even approaching the complexity of the footnote apparatus of the New American Bible or the Jerusalem Bible in their midst, nor anything even lightly resembling a study edition like the one from Little Rock, Oxford, or the Ignatius Study edition of the RSV-CE 2nd edition.

Unlike the Catholic Church that offers both traditional and critical means to study Scripture, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses follows no definitive form of hermeneutics. There are no actual scholars in their ranks and no member of the Jehovah’s Witnesses is allowed a university education in the field of Biblical studies. Scripture interpretations by the Governing Body flip and flop based on the whims of its members who one day will teach one thing, and the next day demand allegiance to the opposite interpretation under penalty of excommunication.
 
Thanks again for the info. I am anxious compare what my friend has to say to what you said now that I KNOW the truth.

She did say something like that. That is why they baptize adults because after they are to be preachers and teachers. My friend was raised a Catholic. I wonder went wrong for her to become a JW?]Good thread thank you:thumbsup:

I once had a co-worker that was JW. Who seems to bother me more then the other workers. I once asked him why that was, his reply was “Where told to target Catholics because we have it all wrong and most be told the truth so we can save them .” And of course he refused to hear anything I had to say to counter his argument.

The best I can do is pray for them.

God bless

jesus g
 
Thanks again for the info. I am anxious compare what my friend has to say to what you said now that I KNOW the truth.

She did say something like that. That is why they baptize adults because after they are to be preachers and teachers. My friend was raised a Catholic. I wonder went wrong for her to become a JW?
Good thread thank you

I once had a co-worker that was JW. Who seems to bother me more then the other workers. I once asked him why that was, his reply was “Where told to target Catholics because we have it all wrong and most be told the truth so we can save them .” And of course he refused to hear anything I had to say to counter his argument.

The best I can do is pray for them.

God bless

jesus g
 
Good thread thank you

I once had a co-worker that was JW. Who seems to bother me more then the other workers. I once asked him why that was, his reply was “Where told to target Catholics because we have it all wrong and most be told the truth so we can save them .” And of course he refused to hear anything I had to say to counter his argument.

The best I can do is pray for them.

God bless

jesus g
You are welcome.

I will see my friend on Friday . She was going to ask the elders about their “baptism”. She didn’t seem to know too much. I guess she was only to her own baptism several years ago. I will let you all know what she has to say.
 
WOW! I just called the HQ of JWs in Canada and asked the question. The person didn’t want to answer it but eventually said:“No, they don’t say the formula”. So here, you have it from the horses’s mouth. I got baptized in a different country, right after the fall of the communist regime, so maybe the elders there didn’t know it back then.
UPDATE

Hi
I asked my friend and I got the best answer from you Hortenzie and DelsonJacob9I hope IO have that right)

She said that they say nothing when they dunk them. She started quoting all sorts of verses telling me why infant baptism in wrong. How baptism does not wash away ones sins. blah blah etc. Just as I was told what she would reply.

God Bless
 
UPDATE

Hi
I asked my friend and I got the best answer from you Hortenzie and DelsonJacob9I hope IO have that right)

She said that they say nothing when they dunk them. She started quoting all sorts of verses telling me why infant baptism in wrong. How baptism does not wash away ones sins. blah blah etc. Just as I was told what she would reply.

God Bless
Her response is what is popularly referred to as the “backfire effect.” When a subject encounters information or a situation that causes one or more of their beliefs to suddenly seem contradictory to their own logic (not just that of others), this can cause excessive stress for some. While it is understandable for some denial and even grief to occur depending on how foundational the conviction under consideration is, usually logic and self-control play a part in helping the subject to deal with the situation and move on. It can often be a hard pill to swallow because it will involve admitting that one is wrong, or it can cause for some adjustment because it can mean that only the personal understanding of the subject was off. Either way most people live through it with grace.

The “backfire effect” is when the subject chooses to attack the new “disturbing” information or its source (even when it is a person), reiterating doctrine in a manner that seems to be self-serving more than anything, as if they are trying to re-indoctrinate themselves by reminding themselves of how “correct” their beliefs are in the face of the new uncomfortable information, all the while presenting their emotional response under the guise of a logical defense.

In this case your friend decided to “attack” your belief system, even though your belief practices were not what was under discussion. The individual feels better when they can do this, even though the original subject is never defended or its actual reason for incompatibility ever broached in the process of this new attack.

It is significant to note that this occurred likely to the fact that Jehovah’s Witnesses place a strong emphasis on doing things “in the name of Jesus” and “in the name of Jehovah.” to the point that they use the Divine Name as frequently or even more often than a mundane human name. They also believe that God will not hear their prayers unless they literally utter God’s name and the formula “in the name of Jesus Christ,” or something similar to it.

With this in mind, facing the fact that Biblical baptism is commanded to be performed “in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit,” and the truth that this gets ignored in their own baptism is likely to set off a similar “backfire effect” from practically any Witness you encounter.–Matthew 28:19.
 
UPDATE

Hi
I asked my friend and I got the best answer from you Hortenzie and DelsonJacob9I hope IO have that right)

She said that they say nothing when they dunk them. She started quoting all sorts of verses telling me why infant baptism in wrong. How baptism does not wash away ones sins. blah blah etc. Just as I was told what she would reply.

God Bless
Nothing new! The whole anti- infant baptism argument is the biggest bogus belief! As I used to tell my ex-roommate a JW:

So God excludes infants until they reach a certain age to be considered into His Kingdom? And exactly at what age are we considered worthy candidates?
 
Hi DelsonJacobs
With this in mind, facing the fact that Biblical baptism is commanded to be performed “in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit,” and the truth that this gets ignored in their own baptism is likely to set off a similar “backfire effect” from practically any Witness you encounter.–Matthew 28:19.
She said that the use of the biblical formula is only for disciples whatever that means. And yet she considers herself a disciple so why not the formula?

Since babies cannot be disciples therefore they cannot be baptized.

It doesn’t make sense to me.

I thank you for your education.

God Bless
 
Nothing new! The whole anti- infant baptism argument is the biggest bogus belief! As I used to tell my ex-roommate a JW:

So God excludes infants until they reach a certain age to be considered into His Kingdom? And exactly at what age are we considered worthy candidates?
I guess when the kids decide they want to do “service” in their neighbors then they are worth of baptism
 
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