Working hard to get ahead [Makers and Takers]

[Fitswimmer]

Sr. Helen came to my parish 3 wks. ago!!! She was terrific, as always…(I met her at Vassar College a few yrs. ago, too) She’s one of my heros!!!

I have to watch for her speaking schedule, I really want to hear her again. She’s an amazing lady.

 

[rlg94086]

Which means that hard work alone won’t save you. Your boss also has to want to pay you for the hard work. (Which means that he has to like you.)

The only way hard work alone can save someone is if they own their own farm, and raise all their own food, fix all their own machinery, and build their own house and other buildings.

Otherwise, the human equation enters in, and it becomes about how well liked you are, and how good of a salesman you are.

Now you are “thinking like a Protestant.” The question doesn’t say “alone,” just as the Bible doesn’t say “faith alone.”

 

[ribozyme]

Now you are “thinking like a Protestant.” The question doesn’t say “alone,” just as the Bible doesn’t say “faith alone.”

I suppose you haven’t read that book by Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray either. They do not believe in the power of “hard work” and the latter is a conservative.

Putting it all together, success and failure in the American economy, and all that goes with it, are increasingly a matter of the genes that people inherit.

 

[rlg94086]

What are your data?? …and what biases do they have…
ALL do!!!

Well, first of all, it isn’t “my data.” I am relaying the info from a book synopsis which references data. Since I don’t yet have the book, I can’t give you the specific references. However, if you look at my first quote, I describe the way the author answered the same question in an interview. He mentioned one of them by name, and I included them in a link on this post: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3768387&postcount=16

 

[rlg94086]

I suppose you haven’t read that book by Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray either. They do not believe in the power of “hard work” and the latter is a conservative.

Putting it all together, success and failure in the American economy, and all that goes with it, are increasingly a matter of the genes that people inherit.

I haven’t read their work. So, they are saying that my success is based on genetic predisposition? Interesting. So, why are siblings not equally successful? …seems like a strange theory to me.

BTW…how hard did they work when writing about this theory?

 

[ribozyme]

I haven’t read their work. So, they are saying that my success is based on genetic predisposition? Interesting. So, why are siblings not equally successful? …seems like a strange theory to me.

BTW…how hard did they work when writing about this theory?

The book has a rather long bibliography and has many charts in the appendices. I suppose it was the product of hard work. But do you think that it is solely the product of hard work? Do you think everyone has the capacity to write the book and understand it?

 

[rlg94086]

The book has a rather long bibliography and has many charts in the appendices.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Which means that hard work alone won’t save you. Your boss also has to want to pay you for the hard work. (Which means that he has to like you.)

No, your boss could hate your guts – he pays you because you make money for him.

The only way hard work alone can save someone is if they own their own farm, and raise all their own food, fix all their own machinery, and build their own house and other buildings.

Gee, I knew there was a reason I lived on a farm.

Otherwise, the human equation enters in, and it becomes about how well liked you are, and how good of a salesman you are.

An employer who pays people based on how much he likes them, and not on how much value they add to his business will soon go bankrupt.

Now, any decent man – employer or employee – respects the people he works with, under, or over. But cronyism is no part of any business.

 

[Caesar517]

An employer who pays people based on how much he likes them, and not on how much value they add to his business will soon go bankrupt.

vern humphrey is absolutely correct. Working hard and “going the extra mile” tells your employer that you are a valuable employee. Hard work is what a boss looks for when it is promotion time. Two similar employees; if one is working harder than the other, who do you think will get the pay raise?

 

[Amolibri]

vern humphrey is absolutely correct. Working hard and “going the extra mile” tells your employer that you are a valuable employee. Hard work is what a boss looks for when it is promotion time. Two similar employees; if one is working harder than the other, who do you think will get the pay raise?

…I don’t disagree…when you put it that way… one can believe it up to a point [a tad idealistic, but ok]… the opportunities need to be there, also. There is rampant nepotism in my workplace…and in many others.

 

[rlg94086]

…I don’t disagree…when you put it that way… one can believe it up to a point [a tad idealistic, but ok]… the opportunities need to be there, also. There is rampant nepotism in my workplace…and in many others.

That reminds me of a Rowan Atkinson skit I saw on some British TV show…(paraphrased from memory)

Johnson: We need to fill the vacancy on our executive staff.
Fellow Executive (subordinate): We will start the search right away.
Johnson: We probably should hire a woman…minority…lesbian…disabled…
Fellow Executive (after Johnson leaves the room): That’s Johnson, always making sure a relative is hired.

 

[Amolibri]

That reminds me of a Rowan Atkinson skit I saw on some British TV show…(paraphrased from memory)

Johnson: We need to fill the vacancy on our executive staff.
Fellow Executive (subordinate): We will start the search right away.
Johnson: We probably should hire a woman…minority…lesbian…disabled…
Fellow Executive (after Johnson leaves the room): That’s Johnson, always making sure a relative is hired.

 

[cynic]

vern humphrey is absolutely correct. Working hard and “going the extra mile” tells your employer that you are a valuable employee. Hard work is what a boss looks for when it is promotion time. Two similar employees; if one is working harder than the other, who do you think will get the pay raise?

So the solution is for everyone to be working harder than everyone else.:yup:

 

[vern_humphrey]

So the solution is for everyone to be working harder than everyone else.:yup:

Actually, the solution is for everyone to try to maximize their potential.

1. Get an education.
2. Get a job.
3. Seek more responsibility in your job.
4. Constantly upgrade your skills.
5. Upgrade your education as appropriate.
6. Save and invest.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

Hi all,

I just heard an interview on the radio with the author of a new book which sounds like it may be interesting to read and discuss: Makers and Takers: Why conservatives work harder, feel happier, have closer families, take fewer drugs, give more generously, value honesty more, are less materialistic and envious, whine less … and even hug their children more than liberals

I’ve attached a poll regarding the difference in attitudes toward hard work and getting ahead, but there are a lot of other comparisons. The results he mentioned from sources like General Social Surveys (published, accademically accepted, neutral surveys) were 80% of conservatives said ‘yes’ and 14% of liberals said ‘no.’

Another example was on the question of “is marriage important to you” posed to singles: 67% of conservatives said ‘yes,’ and only 35% of liberals said ‘yes.’

Other examples from the book summary on the hyperlink above:

I’ve heard a lot of charges against conservatives on this forum regarding how conservatives, especially Republicans, don’t reflect Catholic values. I think it would be a fun thing to hash out. Let’s try to do it in a charitable fashion…if possible.

Why is “working hard” a political issue?

What I see is lots of stereotypes for “liberals” and “conservatives” that are unrepresentative of real life. Working hard goes across the entire political spectrum. Both “liberals” and “conservatives” work hard and you have those on both sides who try to game the system. Working hard gets you pretty far but there is still the lifelong networking and “who you know” versus “what you know” in life which also unfairly counts for sometimes even more.

Toss out any labels and polls, as they are meaningless here.

 

[rlg94086]

Toss out any labels and polls, as they are meaningless here.

The labels are self-identified, and I disagree that the results of the surveys are meaningless. They display the priorities and attitudes and create an interesting correlation to the political viewpoints of those surveyed.

Since many people like to claim that conservatives are greedy, don’t care about others, etc.; I think the results showing just the opposite are important to consider.

 

[vern_humphrey]

The labels are self-identified, and I disagree that the results of the surveys are meaningless. They display the priorities and attitudes and create an interesting correlation to the political viewpoints of those survey.

Since many people like to claim that conservatives are greedy, don’t care about others, etc.; I think the results showing just the opposite are important to consider.

It’s a lot easier to claim other people are greedy than it is to go to work, pay your own way, and contribute to helping others.

As I’ve often said, I’ve seen plenty of posts that say, “The **rich **should pay,” but I’ve yet to see one that says, “***I ***should work harder so I can pay my share.”

 

[cynic]

Actually, the solution is for everyone to try to maximize their potential.

1. Get an education.
2. Get a job.
3. Seek more responsibility in your job.
4. Constantly upgrade your skills.
5. Upgrade your education as appropriate.
6. Save and invest.

7.Think about and do nothing but your job
8. Have some boring grey existence with no friends, family or outside interests.

But then I must be lazy to even think that…

Actually one of the solutions that’s been offered here is simply to work harder than your colleages. Which begs the question, what happens when everyone attempts to out-work each other, to those who fail to be promoted fast enough? What if you aren’t interested in the kind of work that pays more? Not everyone wants to be lawyers, accountants, or managers.

Conservatives like you always equate hard work with status and income, so it seems as if the existence of ‘losers’ is inherently neccessary, whether you like to admit it or not, and that’s pretty sad.

 

[vern_humphrey]

7.Think about and do nothing but your job
8. Have some boring grey existence with no friends, family or outside interests.

But then I must be lazy to even think that…

No, just dull and two-dimensional.

Actually one of the solutions that’s been offered here is simply to work harder than your colleages. Which begs the question, what happens when everyone attempts to out-work each other, to those who fail to be promoted fast enough?

Then you get high productivity, the company out-competes its rivals, profits go up, and the management – seeing the contribuition its highly-motivated employees make – pays them more.

If it doesn’t pay them more, the rival companies hire them away at higher wages.

What if you aren’t interested in the kind of work that pays more? Not everyone wants to be lawyers, accountants, or managers.

“Not interested?” Is that French for “too lazy,” or Greek for “lacking talent?”

Conservatives like you always equate hard work with status and income, so it seems as if the existence of ‘losers’ is inherently neccessary, whether you like to admit it or not, and that’s pretty sad.

What’s sad is people who could support themselves, but would rather make excuses.

 

[cynic]

No, just dull and two-dimensional.

.

thank you

Then you get high productivity, the company out-competes its
rivals
.

and what happens to its rivals?

profits go up, and the management – seeing the contribuition its highly-motivated employees make – pays them more.

If it doesn’t pay them more, the rival companies hire them away at higher wages.
.

Or perhaps it pays management a bonus for squeezing that extra bit out of the staff, and leaves everyone else’s wages where they are.

“Not interested?” Is that French for “too lazy,” or Greek for “lacking talent?”
.

Further evidence of your blinkered point of view. You eqate worth with status. Why must everyone be interested in the planning, management or financial side of business?

What’s sad is people who could support themselves, but would rather make excuses.

And a lot of poeple are supporting themselves, just not to your liking.