Working hard to get ahead [Makers and Takers]

[mark_a]

Next time you run into Peter Singer, explain to him that modern cars burn less gas with the windows rolled up, even if the air conditioner is on.

That’s at highway speed. Not so around town.

Having said that, you won’t find me in the summertime driving around without the a/c on at any speed.

 

[consumedconvert]

That’s at highway speed. Not so around town.

Having said that, you won’t find me in the summertime driving around without the a/c on at any speed.

Unless gas goes up to four fifteen in our neighborhood again.

I’ve started taking the bus to work. I don’t have to, but I don’t mind it and I’d rather save the money.

 

[cynic]

Since many people like to claim that conservatives are greedy, don’t care about others

I don’t think anyone is claiming that conservatives are neccessarily greedy here. It’s the opposite claim, that those who aren’t wealthy (or on their way to being wealthy) are a lazy waste of space that I find ‘offensive’.

Conservatives that tend to promote this, either because that is how they explain the existence the the lessers out there, or because it serves some end for them. If they can promote some idea that the low paid are lazy, then it’s easy to justify removing labour laws, paying them less and saving on costs.

 

[Holly3278]

Yes, I believe that in most circumstances, you can get ahead through working hard. Of course, there are certain circumstances when you can’t get ahead by working hard. Take the poor immigrant farmer as an example. He/she has very little chance of getting ahead.

 

[strngrnrth]

Yes, I believe that in most circumstances, you can get ahead through working hard. Of course, there are certain circumstances when you can’t get ahead by working hard. Take the poor immigrant farmer as an example. He/she has very little chance of getting ahead.

Over time those little chances add up, though. A man comes to America and works for enough to sleep in a flophouse, a meal of mush and enough savings to take a train to another town with beter wages if he can keep it on his person so no one steals it in the three years it takes him to save it. He works so hard he’s blind and hallucinating from exhaustion all his life. But one of his kids grows up in the city he moves to and works from age five to seventy for slightly more than his Dad made. He saves enough to set up a fruit stand in his old age. His daughter is good at selling fruit and inherits the stand. She makes enough to save so she can put a down payment on a shack in the country. Her second and third children are able to pay off the second mortgage and own the house outright between them and they put siding and electric wiring in it. It’s been seventy-five years since the ancestor immigrated. The next generation adds plumbing, builds an addition and gets some paint. The next plants a garden and attracts a buyer who pays a lot for the place, and uses the money to go to college, become a CPA and meanwhile invest in something fairly safe and make a modest living while in college. Twelve years later, she becomes one of the richest people in town and eventually retires extremely wealthy. Some success stories happen in just one lifetime, some are still struggling at step two or three after many generations, but no one is cut off from hope just because of nationality or lack of capital in America.

 

[Sheeniac]

I don’t think anyone is claiming that conservatives are neccessarily greedy here. It’s the opposite claim, that those who aren’t wealthy (or on their way to being wealthy) are a lazy waste of space that I find ‘offensive’.

Conservatives that tend to promote this, either because that is how they explain the existence the the lessers out there, or because it serves some end for them. If they can promote some idea that the low paid are lazy, then it’s easy to justify removing labour laws, paying them less and saving on costs.

Actually, I see this used as a liberal excuse more often than not (perhaps not on this forum). Not so much that they (a self-identified liberal) are not interested in hard work, but in that they are defending those who do not wish to work hard (or work at all) to better themselves.

Yes - some people really cannot do so, for whatever reason (let’s face it, hard work is not a guarantee), but many are just truly lazy and want life handed to them on a platter. Unfortunately, I know too many people in my family just like that.

As far as ‘getting ahead’ (I’m not sure if it was you or another poster who made the claim), but it’s not necessarily getting ahead of others, but bettering one’s own position. I came from an upper-lower class family. I can’t even lay claim to any colored collar (blue, white, pink) so I will go with ‘collarless’.

I worked hard to get ahead - to better my lot in life. To be in a better spot, to worry less. And yes - to take more vacations.

So, I agree with the comment because most of us can improve our lot in life if we kick it up a notch.

 

[vern_humphrey]

thank you

and what happens to its rivals?

They either pull up their socks, or go out of business and are replaced by more efficient companies.

Or perhaps it pays management a bonus for squeezing that extra bit out of the staff, and leaves everyone else’s wages where they are.

In which case another, smarter company comes along and hires away all their efficient and productive workers.

Further evidence of your blinkered point of view. You eqate worth with status. Why must everyone be interested in the planning, management or financial side of business?

Where do you get that idea? There are plenty of craftsmen who are content to become the best craftsmen they can. However, such people usually wind up as foremen and managers as well.

You fail to understand we are a society. There is organization in human society. As individuals mature, they naturally become leaders and mentors.

And a lot of poeple are supporting themselves, just not to your liking.

Why would I not like someone supporting himself, and contributing his share to the welfare of those who truly can’t support themselves?

 

[jmcrae]

7.Think about and do nothing but your job
8. Have some boring grey existence with no friends, family or outside interests.

But then I must be lazy to even think that…

Actually one of the solutions that’s been offered here is simply to work harder than your colleages. Which begs the question, what happens when everyone attempts to out-work each other, to those who fail to be promoted fast enough? What if you aren’t interested in the kind of work that pays more? Not everyone wants to be lawyers, accountants, or managers.

Conservatives like you always equate hard work with status and income, so it seems as if the existence of ‘losers’ is inherently neccessary, whether you like to admit it or not, and that’s pretty sad.

I used to work in an environment like that. The company went out of existence because the owner had a heart attack, and most of the employees were crazy from sleep-deprivation.

Aside from the resulting health problems, it actually reduces productivity, and zeros out creativity, when people try to work 24 hours a day. Those people (including me) couldn’t even think straight. I remember one time going home after a 36 hour shift, and I got hit by a bus. I don’t know what was in my mind at the time (if anything) but apparently, I just walked right out in front of a moving bus. I was in the hospital for six days, and it was the first rest I’d had in three years. When I got out of the hospital, I took stock of my life, made some important decisions, including a decision to quit that job and took the risk of being a “bit lazy” to be able to get a good night’s sleep every night, and to do some kind of less stressful work, where I can come home while the sun is still out, and spend time with my family.

This has its ups and downs, too, but at least I’m awake to be able to make important decisions when they need to be made.

 

[Fitswimmer]

There’s nothing wrong with working to the best of your ability and there certainly isn’t anything wrong with working to provide for yourself and your family.

Like anything else, it can and often does get taken to extremes. In the last few years, I’ve noticed that there is almost a competition for who can be doing the most. People brag about their long days at the office, working on weekends, and how much pressure they’re under.

I would rather see us return to the days when people worked decent hours, spent time with their families and weren’t “on call” with their companies 24/7.

 

[vern_humphrey]

There’s nothing wrong with working to the best of your ability and there certainly isn’t anything wrong with working to provide for yourself and your family.

Like anything else, it can and often does get taken to extremes. In the last few years, I’ve noticed that there is almost a competition for who can be doing the most. People brag about their long days at the office, working on weekends, and how much pressure they’re under.

I would rather see us return to the days when people worked decent hours, spent time with their families and weren’t “on call” with their companies 24/7.

I suggest reading Martin L Gross’s A Call For Revolution. By comparing two statistically identical families, one in the '50s and one in the present, living in the same house, he shows how our wonderful government programs brought us to this situation where both parents have to work.

How about a return to the time when everyone who could pulled their weight, helped their neighbors, and didn’t expect the government to do it all for them?

And when the government does do it all for us, who will pay for it? Do we want to run ourselves into bankruptcy and collapse like the former Soviet Union.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I suggest reading Martin L Gross’s A Call For Revolution. By comparing two statistically identical families, one in the '50s and one in the present, living in the same house, he shows how our wonderful government programs brought us to this situation where both parents have to work.

How about a return to the time when everyone who could pulled their weight, helped their neighbors, and didn’t expect the government to do it all for them?

And when the government does do it all for us, who will pay for it? Do we want to run ourselves into bankruptcy and collapse like the former Soviet Union.

I am in full support of reform and the elimination of fraud, waste and abuse in all government programs-including the Dept of Defense.

I also do not believe that MOST people “expect the government to do it all for them”. That is one of the things I disliked the most about the Conservative mindset, the negative view that was held about their fellow citizens. As if everyone in the country was just waiting for the day that they could sit back and get a free house, a free car, free food and never have to work. I’ve NEVER met anyone who seriously wanted that or would seriously advocate such a thing.

What people are tiring of is having to work 2 and 3 jobs to have the same lifestyle they had 10 years ago.

 

[jmcrae]

I suggest reading Martin L Gross’s A Call For Revolution. By comparing two statistically identical families, one in the '50s and one in the present, living in the same house, he shows how our wonderful government programs brought us to this situation where both parents have to work.

Actually, it’s materialism that has brought people to this point. The family of the fifties didn’t need two or more cars, didn’t need a TV set, gaming system, or Internet service, certainly didn’t need cable or satellite, and lived within walking distance of school, church, shopping, and work. They also made most of their own clothes rather than buying them, and grew their own vegetables in the summer time.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I am in full support of reform and the elimination of fraud, waste and abuse in all government programs-including the Dept of Defense.

That makes two of us. Unfortunately, neither of us are in Congress.

I also do not believe that MOST people “expect the government to do it all for them”.

But you don’t deny there are a lot of people who expect the government to do it all?

And that there are a lot more people who want the governmetn to do something for them that it isn’t doing now?

And that the sum total of those “somethings” adds up?

That is one of the things I disliked the most about the Conservative mindset, the negative view that was held about their fellow citizens.

And this justifies the negative view you hold about your fellow conservative citizens?

As if everyone in the country was just waiting for the day that they could sit back and get a free house, a free car, free food and never have to work. I’ve NEVER met anyone who seriously wanted that or would seriously advocate such a thing.

Come to Phillips County, Arkansas (the poorest county in the nation) and I will show you people who want exactly that.

Or if that’s too much of a trip, come to any inner city and look around.

What people are tiring of is having to work 2 and 3 jobs to have the same lifestyle they had 10 years ago.

Read A Call for Revolution to find out why.

 

[Fitswimmer]

That makes two of us. Unfortunately, neither of us are in Congress.

But you don’t deny there are a lot of people who expect the government to do it all?

And that there are a lot more people who want the governmetn to do something for them that it isn’t doing now?

And that the sum total of those “somethings” adds up?

And this justifies the negative view you hold about your fellow conservative citizens?

Come to Phillips County, Arkansas (the poorest county in the nation) and I will show you people who want exactly that.

Or if that’s too much of a trip, come to any inner city and look around.

Read A Call for Revolution to find out why.

Come to our food pantry I’ll show you people that would LOVE to have a decent job that would pay for food, rent and transportation. I live 45 min west of NYC, and the cost of living is crazy. A one bedroom apartment rents for $1000, food prices are crazy, and not all places of employment are accessable via mass transit. (mine isn’t for one) A person making minimum wage, even at more than one job simply isn’t able to do it anymore. These folks aren’t asking for big screen TV’s or vacations, they just want their kids to go to decent schools, and have decent food and shelter.

How does the Church expect people to have large families in this climate? We’re doing what we can to help with food, clothing and other necessities, but everyone is feeling the pinch. Our donations are down and our demand is way up. Charities can’t do it all.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Actually, it’s materialism that has brought people to this point. The family of the fifties didn’t need two or more cars, didn’t need a TV set, gaming system, or Internet service, certainly didn’t need cable or satellite, and lived within walking distance of school, church, shopping, and work. They also made most of their own clothes rather than buying them, and grew their own vegetables in the summer time.

Read the book.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Come to our food pantry I’ll show you people that would LOVE to have a decent job that would pay for food, rent and transportation. I live 45 min west of NYC, and the cost of living is crazy.

Again, read A Call for Revolution.

A one bedroom apartment rents for $1000, food prices are crazy, and not all places of employment are accessable via mass transit.

My youngest daughter lives in Weekawken, NJ and works in NYC.

But read the book – among the problems you have is rent control, which dried up the supply of housing and drove housing prices out of control.

A person making minimum wage, even at more than one job simply isn’t able to do it anymore. These folks aren’t asking for big screen TV’s or vacations, they just want their kids to go to decent schools, and have decent food and shelter.

My daughter manages to support herself. It seems that a lot of jobs pay more than minimum wage – and even a girl with a degree in Theater Arts can get jobs that pay well.

How does the Church expect people to have large families in this climate?

The Church did not create the climate.

We’re doing what we can to help with food, clothing and other necessities, but everyone is feeling the pinch. Our donations are down and our demand is way up. Charities can’t do it all.

Again, read the book. We could do it with charity, if Government didn’t suck up and waste so much money.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Read the book.

I would, but these days it takes me 2 jobs to keep my one bedroom condo, put gas in my little Toyota and buy food for myself. I don’t mind, but it does cut down on the time I have for reading…

 

[vern_humphrey]

I would, but these days it takes me 2 jobs to keep my one bedroom condo, put gas in my little Toyota and buy food for myself. I don’t mind, but it does cut down on the time I have for reading…

Then “good ideas” in government have driven you past the point of recovery.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Then “good ideas” in government have driven you past the point of recovery.

Yeah, like that war we’re waging that’s costing:

$4,681 per household.​

$1,721 per person.​

$341.4 million per day.​

I’d much rather pay for Social Security, healthcare, education and a rebuilding of our infrastructure with all that $$$. Maybe we might actually create some jobs in our own country if we did some of that, what a novel idea!

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Yeah, like that war we’re waging that’s costing:

$4,681 per household.​

$1,721 per person.​

$341.4 million per day.​

I’d much rather pay for Social Security, healthcare, education and a rebuilding of our infrastructure with all that $$$. Maybe we might actually create some jobs in our own country if we did some of that, what a novel idea!

Communist!