Works and Salvation...

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This question concerns the Protestant belief of Sola Fida. If works are not integral in justification, then why are we to be judged based upon our works?

Ref. Revelations 20:12 “And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.”

I’m just curious as to how this apparent dichotomy can be defended.

Thanks!
 
Coming from a “Protestant” perspective, we don’t believe works are neccessary for salvation. Before people jump on me, let me explain.

A man is on his deathbed. He has a deathbed conversion. He dies just after that (a la Constantine). Where are his good works? I suppose you could count the good works he did before his conversion, but those works, without the conversion, are not going to save him. I am talking about TRUE repentance here, not just words. From my limited understanding of Catholicism, both “Protestants” and Catholics believe in deathbed conversions. Furthermore, how would a someone with a deathbed conversion participate in the sacraments? Anyway, maybe I should just start another thread…🤷

Please correct me if I am wrong.
 
This question concerns the Protestant belief of Sola Fida. If works are not integral in justification, then why are we to be judged based upon our works?

Ref. Revelations 20:12 “And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.”

I’m just curious as to how this apparent dichotomy can be defended.

Thanks!
The key difference is that Protestants believe that while works are not necessary for justification, they are relevant for sanctification. There will be distinctions made in heaven based upon our works (how closlely we followed Christ’s commandments), but in the Protestant faith, saving grace is not dependent upon works.

Protestants do believe in works - as James said, faith without works is dead. The difference is whehter the works go to saving. Its an issue that I think is blown out of proportion because Protestants will further say that works is evidence of faith, so if you don’t do the works, it suggests you don’t really have faith and are not Christ’s. So we end up in largely the same place.

A big issue Protestants have with Catholic church teaching on the sacraments is that they believe making salvation conditioned upon the sacraments means you have to work for your salvation. The Catholic Church thinks of the sacraments as a form of grace from God/ the Church.

I’m Protestant with a strong affinity and love of the Catholic church. While I’m drawn to the sacraments (thus fellowship in the Anglican Church), I’ll admit I’m still struggling with the idea that the sacraments are necessary for salvation once you believe in, and accept, Christ as your Lord and Saviour.

Blesssings,

Brian
 
This question concerns the Protestant belief of Sola Fida. If works are not integral in justification, then why are we to be judged based upon our works?

Ref. Revelations 20:12 “And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.”

I’m just curious as to how this apparent dichotomy can be defended.

Thanks!
Unbelievers and believers will be judged based on works.

Unbelievers will be judged on their own works (not good news).

Believers will be judged based on the works of Christ (imputation) (very good news).
 
Unbelievers and believers will be judged based on works.

Unbelievers will be judged on their own works (not good news).

Believers will be judged based on the works of Christ (imputation) (very good news).
TriuneUnity:
Revelations 20:12 does not delineate between the judgment of believers and that of non-believers. I do not see imputation in this verse. Can you help me with this?
Thanks!
 
TriuneUnity:
Revelations 20:12 does not delineate between the judgment of believers and that of non-believers. I do not see imputation in this verse. Can you help me with this?
Thanks!
Sure.

Firstly, we should not use Revelation to interpret the epistles. The dispensationalists did this and it completely destroyed their eschatology.

Rev 20 doesnt speak of imputation but half of Paul’s epistles do. So we use the clearer passages of Scripture (the 4 gospels, the epistles of Paul, 1 Peter, et al) to interpret the more obscure sections of the New Testament (Revelation, 2, 3 John et al).

When we have faith in Christ, His active obedience to the Law of God is credited to us. So at that judgment seat, we will be judged in Christ. Unbelievers will be judged solely in Adam.
 
If I …

Admit that I am a sinner…

Repent sincerely, perhaps with the sinner’s prayer…

and accept Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior…

will I be saved?

.
 
If I …

Admit that I am a sinner…

Repent sincerely, perhaps with the sinner’s prayer…

and accept Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior…

will I be saved?

.
Read Paul
Code:
*  8.
* But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:

* 9.
* That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
 
If I …

Admit that I am a sinner…

Repent sincerely, perhaps with the sinner’s prayer…

and accept Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior…

will I be saved?

.
What if you die right after that? I’m curious see what people think.
 
Unbelievers and believers will be judged based on works.

Unbelievers will be judged on their own works (not good news).

Believers will be judged based on the works of Christ (imputation) (very good news).
Doesn’t this throw Jesus’ work on the cross out the window? Maybe I’m just not understanding…
 
Doesn’t this throw Jesus’ work on the cross out the window? Maybe I’m just not understanding…
No. I’m not sure how you came to that?

Christ’s active obedience to the Law is credited as our righteousness. His death on the cross took away the punishment due to us because of our transgressions of the Law.
 
Doesn’t this throw Jesus’ work on the cross out the window? Maybe I’m just not understanding…
No, I believe he/she means that if we don’t believe in,and accept Christ, as Lord and savior, then we are judged based upon our acts - and God told us that there is none righteous, not one and all of our good works are “filthy rags” in the eyes of God (thus a real problem at Judgement day). If we are believers and of Christ, then we are made rigtheous by Christ. That should lead to salvation (the Protestant view) and then, among believers, distinctions re: rewards will be made based upon our works (sanctification). Catholic theology goes a step further and says that this salvation through faith can be lost through sin and failure to cleans that sin with the sacraments.

Blessings,

Brian
 
No. I’m not sure how you came to that?

Christ’s active obedience to the Law is credited as our righteousness. His death on the cross took away the punishment due to us because of our transgressions of the Law.
I think I understand now. It looked (to me) like a works-based salvation was being presented, but I see where I was wrong. I was just a little confused. Thanks for your explaination!
 
Originally Posted by MrS forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
*If I …

Admit that I am a sinner…

Repent sincerely, perhaps with the sinner’s prayer…

and accept Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior…

will I be saved?
*
Read Paul
  • But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:
  • That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Am I to take that as a Yes??
 
I think I understand now. It looked (to me) like a works-based salvation was being presented, but I see where I was wrong. I was just a little confused. Thanks for your explaination!
Welcome! 🙂
 
Sure.

Firstly, we should not use Revelation to interpret the epistles. The dispensationalists did this and it completely destroyed their eschatology.

Rev 20 doesnt speak of imputation but half of Paul’s epistles do. So we use the clearer passages of Scripture (the 4 gospels, the epistles of Paul, 1 Peter, et al) to interpret the more obscure sections of the New Testament (Revelation, 2, 3 John et al).

When we have faith in Christ, His active obedience to the Law of God is credited to us. So at that judgment seat, we will be judged in Christ. Unbelievers will be judged solely in Adam.
TriuneUnity:
What about James? “What shall it profit if a man if he has faith, but has not works? Shall faith be able to save him? . . . You believe that there is one God. You do well. But the devils also believe and tremble. But will you know, vain man, that faith without works is dead. . . . By works a man is justified and not by faith only. Even as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead” (Jas. 2:14, 19, 20, 26).
Thanks!
 
TriuneUnity:
What about James? “What shall it profit if a man if he has faith, but has not works? Shall faith be able to save him? . . . You believe that there is one God. You do well. But the devils also believe and tremble. But will you know, vain man, that faith without works is dead. . . . By works a man is justified and not by faith only. Even as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead” (Jas. 2:14, 19, 20, 26).
Thanks!
I will quote a famed Lutheran expositor to answer this question. He just answers it better than I 😃

"Turn from a merely verbal faith, for a faith that exhausts itself in words is as useless as a charity that exhausts itself in gracious phrases (v. 14–16); turn from a faith that is in reality no faith at all, but dead (v. 17) and unable to save. (v. 14)

Turn: Cease trying to excuse yourselves with a pious sophistry which makes an impossible cleavage between faith and works by distributing them as several gifts, faith to one man, works to another (v. 18); this reduces faith to a merely intellectual grasp of truths about God—demons have that kind of faith, and they know that it cannot save them; they shudder at the judgment that is to come upon them. (v.19)

Turn from this delusion about your barren faith, a faith as impotent and inactive as a corpse (vv. 20, 26). Turn to that faith which is a living faith and must needs evince itself in works (v. 18), a faith which justifies because it is a faith that commits a man wholly to his God and is therefore a working faith, such a faith as Abraham’s was: he was ready to give to God the best gift God had given him, his son. Abraham’s faith was active in his works and found its fullest expression in works (v. 21–22). In the fact that believing Abraham showed in deed that he held God dearer than God’s dearest gift there was seen the full meaning of the words, *Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness *(v. 23). Abraham, the believing friend of God, was friend in word and deed, and so one can even say that man is justified by works and not by faith alone, for faith is never alone, as even the example of Rahab shows: Hers was a simple and unfinished faith, and yet this believing woman, with her stained and ruined past, acted out her faith in works, and she too was thus justified by works as one whose faith made her the doer of the will of God. (v. 25)

Turn to the faith which is the creation of the God who is God of the living and not of the dead, a faith that is a body animated by a living soul, not a corpse." (Roehrs, Walter R.; and Franzmann, Martin H., Concordia Self-Study Commentary, (Saint Louis, MO: Concordia Publishing House) 1988, c1979.)
 
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