Works not required?

[Mangy_Donkey]

Thanks to all who have posted, …so James is wrong and Paul is correct, and there are some who are unable to do works due to physical disabilities and therefore James must be incorrect???

Not what I expected.

 

[Flopfoot]

Allischalmers, ephraim and neweyes are all non-Catholic Christians. Don’t just accept everything they say. (I am assuming that you are a Catholic, or at least that you want a Catholic answer to this question?)

James is not wrong.
All people are able to do good works, just different kinds of works.

Read Matt 25:31-46 and convince yourself that works are an important thing for our salvation.

For more elaboration, hopefully the Catholics here can help you out.

Check their profile (click on their name link displayed above their post) if you’re not sure who it is that is posting.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

allischalmers:

Titus 3;8 --------that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintian good works----
The believing comes first and then the good works !

forever Baptist
allischalmers

Altar calls disproven by Our Lord.

Mat. 7:21

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

St. Paul “works out his salvation with fear and trembling” – salvation is not immediate, but a process (unless of course you die in a state of grace right after baptism).

Phil. 2:10

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[Elzee]

I think the problem is when people hear ‘works’ they think of ‘earning’ something. We never ‘earn’ our salvation. The Church has never taught this and never will.

Romans 2 specifically tells us God rewards our works with eternal life. It is a reward, not a wage - we are in the system of grace now, as Paul also says in Romans. What we do for him we do out of love. It’s like me shoveling the sidewalk for my elderly neighbor. I don’t do it because I want to earn his friendship, I do it because I love him. It’s the mindset that is the difference. Jesus came to fulfill the law, not abolish it. We don’t just obey it because ‘its the checklist of what we must do to stay in favor with God’ - we obey it because it has been burned in our hearts out of love for Him. It’s a big difference.

We live our lives (which is our ‘work’) for God. We can lose our salvation if we reject God. God doesn’t take it from us - we freely give it up. How do we do that? Well, by losing our faith in Him, or by works contrary to His commandments, or omission of works (murder, failing to feed someone who is starving, etc.)

By living our life (‘working’) according to His commandments, we do 2 things: we please Him, who we love, purely out of love for him, and we continually transform ourselves, little by little, into His image, surrendering ourselves to Him more and more. This openness to His grace gives us further strength to serve Him and remain out of sin (mortal and venial sin).

 

[Tom]

Mangy Donkey:

Thanks to all who have posted, …so James is wrong and Paul is correct, and there are some who are unable to do works due to physical disabilities and therefore James must be incorrect???

Not what I expected.

No, it’s not one is right and one is wrong, they are both right. They are speaking of entirely different things. In ALL of Pauls writings when he says “works” he’s referring to works of the Law, those things required to be a good Jew. James on the other hand is referring NOT to works of the Law, but works of Christian charity.

 

[Tom]

There are “works” and then there are “works of the Law”, two very different subjects. “works” vs. the “works of the Law”. (all quotes are from www.drbo.org)
Works:
Matthew 5 (The eight beatitudes): 14 - 19
Matthew 11,2
Matthew 16,
Matthew 23,1-5 And all their works they do for to be seen of men. For they make their phylacteries broad, and enlarge their fringes.
Mark 6,2
Mark 6,14
Luke 10,13
Luke 19,37
John 3,19 –
John 5,20
John 5,36
John 6,28
John 7,3-7
John 8,39
John 8,41
John 9,3
John 9,4
John 10,25-38
John 14,10 -12
John 15,24
Acts Of Apostles 2,11
Acts Of Apostles 9,36
Acts Of Apostles 26,20
Romans 2,6
2 Corinthians 11,15

Works of the Law:
Romans 3,20 Because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified before him. For by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 3,27 Where is then thy boasting? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Romans 3,28 For we account a man to be justified by faith, without the works of the law.
Romans 4,2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory, but not before God. Same epistle (Romans), speaking of works of the Law
Romans 4,6 As David also termeth the blessedness of a man, to whom God reputeth justice without works (of the Law):
Romans 9,12 Not of works (of the Law), but of him that calleth, it was said to her: The elder shall serve the younger.
Romans 9,32 Why so? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were of works(of the Law). For they stumbled at the stumblingstone.
Romans 11,6 And if by grace, it is not now by works(of the Law): otherwise grace is no more grace.
Romans 13,12 The night is passed, and the day is at hand. Let us therefore cast off the works(of the Law) of darkness, and put on the armour of light.
Galatians 2,16 But knowing that man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ; we also believe in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
Galatians 3,2 This only would I learn of you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3,5 He therefore who giveth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you; doth he do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of the faith?
Galatians 3,10 For as many as are of the works of the law, are under a curse. For it is written: Cursed is every one, that abideth not in all things, which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Galatians 5,19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury,
Ephesians 2,9 Not of works(of the Law), that no man may glory.

 

[Tom]

The “works” you are illustrating in Romans (Romans 3:20 KJV 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.) are works” of the Law” not works of Christian charity. Works of the Law are those things required to be a Jew, they have nothing to do with the “works” (deeds) our Lord Jesus the Christ has instructed us to do or “works” we do for one another because we are all brothers.
When you read the writings of Paul, his references to “works” are works of the Law, and he is absolutely correct that you don’t need to do “works” of the Law to follow Christ. Paul isn’t saying you don’t need to do any “works” of Christian charity, he’s saying you don’t need to do “works” of the Law.
Works of Christian charity and works of the Law are two quite different issues.
Works:
Matthew 5 (The eight beatitudes): 14 - 19
Matthew 11,2
Matthew 16,
Matthew 23,1-5
Mark 6,2
Mark 6,14
Luke 10,13
Luke 19,37
John 3,19 –
John 5,20
John 5,36
John 6,28
John 7,3-7
John 8,39
John 8,41
John 9,3
John 9,4
John 10,25-38
John 14,10 -12
John 15,24
Acts Of Apostles 2,11
Acts Of Apostles 9,36
Acts Of Apostles 26,20
Romans 2,6
2 Corinthians 11,15

Works of the Law:
Romans 3,20 Because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified before him. For by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 3,27 Where is then thy boasting? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Romans 3,28 For we account a man to be justified by faith, without the works of the law.
Romans 4,2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory, but not before God. Same epistle (Romans), speaking of works of the Law
Romans 4,6 As David also termeth the blessedness of a man, to whom God reputeth justice without works (of the Law):
Romans 9,12 Not of works (of the Law), but of him that calleth, it was said to her: The elder shall serve the younger.
Romans 9,32 Why so? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were of works(of the Law). For they stumbled at the stumblingstone.
Romans 11,6 And if by grace, it is not now by works(of the Law): otherwise grace is no more grace.
Romans 13,12 The night is passed, and the day is at hand. Let us therefore cast off the works(of the Law) of darkness, and put on the armour of light.
Galatians 2,16 But knowing that man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ; we also believe in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
Galatians 3,2 This only would I learn of you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3,5 He therefore who giveth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you; doth he do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of the faith?
Galatians 3,10 For as many as are of the works of the law, are under a curse. For it is written: Cursed is every one, that abideth not in all things, which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Galatians 5,19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury,
Ephesians 2,9 Not of works(of the Law), that no man may glory.