Works of the Law in Paul's Letters

[PluniaZ]

The problem for most today is definition of terms different to definitions of the early church and , therefore, authors of the NT texts we today are reading.
Baptism: Today means a quiet thing you do with a baby on a Saturday morning with some water just before the sacramental pictures begin. In Paul’s time, Baptism was what most Catholics see on the Easter Vigil (Full initation: Baptism, Chrismation, and Eucharist). This is why he says what he says in Romans 6 and Gal 3:27.
Grace: Grace means gift. The gift of God is his word in the OT and the NT (Read John 1). Jesus is the Grace of God and by extension, his Church, that is his body is the Grace of God, and by extension, the sacraments of the Church, is the Grace of God. The problem today is people sit around with chalk boards sipping coffee discussing the Sacraments, Grace, Jesus, and are not thinking the way the Early Church did, who did sit around discussing these as separate concepts but stood praying and singing about these things in the midst of the Divine Liturgy, watching in one service a man repent, be baptized, be Chrismated, and then receive the Eucharist, of which Jesus says, “He who eat my body and drinks my blood will have eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day.”
It is the Eucharist that saves you, it is the Church that saves you, it is the body of Jesus that saves you, it is Jesus who saves you. Salvation is not sitting around on fluffy clouds for all eternity singing Alleluia Chorus from Handal’s Messiah while strumming a harp and staring a a bright light! Salvation is being raised from the dead at the end of time and living again in the replanted garden of Eden. God’s plan was to live with man for all eternity on this earth and God’s plan will not be thwarted for God’s dwelling is with man! This is the whole point of the Garden! This is the whole point of the Tabernacle of Moses! This is the whole point of the Temple! This is the whole point of the Incarnation! And this is the whole point of the Salvation history. This is the whole point of being Saved! May God bless you all!

Wow. Powerful stuff. Thank you Father.

 

[fhansen]

The problem for most today is definition of terms different to definitions of the early church and , therefore, authors of the NT texts we today are reading.
Baptism: Today means a quiet thing you do with a baby on a Saturday morning with some water just before the sacramental pictures begin. In Paul’s time, Baptism was what most Catholics see on the Easter Vigil (Full initation: Baptism, Chrismation, and Eucharist). This is why he says what he says in Romans 6 and Gal 3:27.
Grace: Grace means gift. The gift of God is his word in the OT and the NT (Read John 1). Jesus is the Grace of God and by extension, his Church, that is his body is the Grace of God, and by extension, the sacraments of the Church, is the Grace of God. The problem today is people sit around with chalk boards sipping coffee discussing the Sacraments, Grace, Jesus, and are not thinking the way the Early Church did, who did sit around discussing these as separate concepts but stood praying and singing about these things in the midst of the Divine Liturgy, watching in one service a man repent, be baptized, be Chrismated, and then receive the Eucharist, of which Jesus says, “He who eat my body and drinks my blood will have eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day.”
It is the Eucharist that saves you, it is the Church that saves you, it is the body of Jesus that saves you, it is Jesus who saves you. Salvation is not sitting around on fluffy clouds for all eternity singing Alleluia Chorus from Handal’s Messiah while strumming a harp and staring a a bright light! Salvation is being raised from the dead at the end of time and living again in the replanted garden of Eden. God’s plan was to live with man for all eternity on this earth and God’s plan will not be thwarted for God’s dwelling is with man! This is the whole point of the Garden! This is the whole point of the Tabernacle of Moses! This is the whole point of the Temple! This is the whole point of the Incarnation! And this is the whole point of the Salvation history. This is the whole point of being Saved! May God bless you all!

Well, we’re covering a lot of topics there, but I like how Pope Emeritus Benedict put it in Jesus of Nazareth, “God is heaven”. Not sure we can say a lot more about it than that, or that we even need to. And by likewise summarizing other Catholic teachings in general I’d say that our goal is communion with God, ‘apart from Whom we can do nothing’ but ‘with Whom all things are possible’, a communion which is entered into by faith and which is begun here but only fully consummated in heaven. The Sacraments of Initiation plus Reconciliation provide us with physical acts which both formalize and enable that communion, or reestablish it if broken. It begins with the “sacrament of faith”, Baptism. Anyone, infant or adult, who receives this sacrament validly must continue to walk in their baptismal vows, continue to follow Christ and remain in Him, to grow in justice, even, as time, opportunity and grace allow, producing fruit, keeping the faith IOW, which it all must begin with as a response to God’s calling, to grace. Yes, Scripture points clearly to the fact that God isn’t much impressed with a lukewarm faith, but one, rather, that earnestly seeks Him.

 

[FatherSebastian]

Amen. But remember, salvation is not us going to God but God coming to us. What father, seeing his toddler on the other side of a raging river would say, “Come!” No, that is not it, like the father running to his prodigal son, God crosses that river and picks us up in his arms and stays right there with us. I think we would all do well to meditate on the words we say at the end of the Creed every Sunday. I believe in one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come! That is salvation! When all is said and done, when the dead are raised, when the wicked are judged, when they have been taken and the righteous left behind (sorry Tim Lahaye), then God’s dwelling is with men. It does not say that man’s dwelling is with God but God’s dwelling is with man. It does not say that the earthly Jerusalem goes to heaven but the heavenly Jerusalem comes to the earth. Salvation is nothing less that the restoration of what we had in the Garden.

RSV Revelation 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain. 2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while. 4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be loosed from his prison 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, that is, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. 9 And they marched up over the broad earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city; but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, 10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it; from his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done. 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire; 15 and if any one’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband; 3 and I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself will be with them; 4 he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away.” 5 And he who sat upon the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.”
22:1 Then he showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 There shall no more be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and his servants shall worship him; 4 they shall see his face, and his name shall be on their foreheads. 5 And night shall be no more; they need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they shall reign for ever and ever. 6 And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place. 7 And behold, I am coming soon.”

 

[fhansen]

Amen. But remember, salvation is not us going to God but God coming to us. What father, seeing his toddler on the other side of a raging river would say, “Come!” No, that is not it, like the father running to his prodigal son, God crosses that river and picks us up in his arms and stays right there with us. I think we would all do well to meditate on the words we say at the end of the Creed every Sunday. I believe in one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come! That is salvation! When all is said and done, when the dead are raised, when the wicked are judged, when they have been taken and the righteous left behind (sorry Tim Lahaye), then God’s dwelling is with men. It does not say that man’s dwelling is with God but God’s dwelling is with man. It does not say that the earthly Jerusalem goes to heaven but the heavenly Jerusalem comes to the earth. Salvation is nothing less that the restoration of what we had in the Garden.

Ok, and yet better in that A&E did not experience the Beatific Vision in the Garden, correct? I also tend to believe that our part involves having experienced the pigsty, relatively speaking, of this world compared to the Garden, so that like Prodigals we’ll also be compelled to run to the Father as He’s running to us. Sort of reversing Adam’s decision, having learned from the exile he initiated us into.

 

[FatherSebastian]

Ok, and yet better in that A&E did not experience the Beatific Vision in the Garden, correct?

The state of Adam and Eve is a bit of a mystery, except that we know that everything that was created was very good, that is perfect. However, as you said, “even better.” For at the end of time we walk back into the Garden, not as Adam of old, not as only a restoration of what was, but of something even greater. We walk in as God made man, as one with the only-begotten Son from the Father. We walk in as the New Adam. As an old saying put it, “God became man so that man might become God” or as St. Peter put it, "We have become partakers of the Divine Nature (2 Pet 1:4). Glory be to Jesus Christ, with his eternal Father, and his All-Holy and Life-Giving Spirit, both now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen.