Works of the Law

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Mortal sin is a REALITY!

Commit Mortal sin and die unrepentant and you go to Hell–period–no exceptions!

It really is that simple!

All people in all religions are capable of committing mortal sin!

People who believe in faith alone can mortally sin.

Catholics can mortally sin.

It doesn’t matter whether people believe in mortal sin–they can still be capable of mortal sin.

If they mortally sin and die unrepentant they go to Hell.

If they aren’t capable of mortally sinning and if they die in a state of grace they go to Heaven–it doesn’t matter WHO they are.

Jesus will judge whether they have mortally sinned or not and whether they have died in a state of grace or a state of mortal sin.

There are many people all over the world who do not like the truths I have stated here.

There may be some who hear them and repent–enter a state of grace–and go to heaven and not Hell.

That is my prayer for everyone.
 
For Paul, when a person is “justified” upon their faith in Jesus Christ, the are transferred from being in a state of “condemnation” to being in a state of “acquittal” from the wrath of God.

Acts 13:38-39
*
38 Be it known unto you therefore, brethren, that through this man is proclaimed unto you remission of sins*:39 and by him every one that believeth is** justified **from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

to be “justified” here is being “right” with God, in a position where wrath no longer lingers over a person but grace and acceptance.

Paul taught that to be “justified” was a gift that is given when someone is converted and baptized (1 Cor 6) - “You have been washed, you have been sanctified, you have been justified in the name of Jesus and by the Spirit of our God”. These are all past tense verbs.
It has already happened to them, in some sense (without denying the progressive aspect)

Paul says “It is God who justifies, who is He who condemns?” (Rom 8:34). Therefore the absence of justification is condemnation. Therefore to be “justified” is to be freed from any faults or sins, basically pardon, the forgiveness/remission of the guilt of sin (Rom 4:9-11).

And Paul inextricable ties the labor which was needed to bring about our “justification” to the sacrifice of Jesus (Rom 4:25; 5:9). There is no work in the human creature, other than the sacrifice of Christ, that brings about our “justification”- the state of forgiveness.

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Dear Erick,

I know you are working hard in several threads about soteriology. 🙂 I just add a feedback.

Consider that Paul does not speak about justification of the believer in a past tense only.

6 He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking[a] and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.

12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. (ου γαρ οι ακροαται του νομου δικαιοι παρα τω θεω αλλ οι ποιηται του νομου δικαιωθησονται )
14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. Romans 2 ESV

Paul does not refer to justification of a human being ONLY as a past occurrence.
So justification is not ONLY an on/off event marking the beginning of the believer’s life.

There is also a final verdict in it. In this stage of the process of justification we see that our deeds are very much involved.

tbc
 
Catholics are always quick to point out James to prove that justification is by works and faith. However, this is a justification that takes place much later in Abraham’s life. I would not disagree with the genuineness of Abraham’s justification by works. However, we was justified, in Genesis 15:6, apart from works at all.

Romans 4:1-2 “For what did Abraham our father find according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he would have reason to boast, but not before God. For the Scripture says ‘Abraham believed God and it was reckoned for righteousness’. Now to him who works, the wages are not counted for grace, but as debt. But to him who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness”.

Paul teaches that Abraham was justified before God by grace and faith, and not of works. Had Abraham done works for his justification, then he would have reason to boast and his justification would have been by his own merit.

James understood that, for he quotes Genesis 15:6. But James also understands that faith in God is always together with works, and therefore works also can be used for justification, but not in anyway conflicting with Abraham’s previous right-standing with God.
Romans 4 shows us another dimension/stage of the process of justification. Between our initial justification and our final one with the verdict in that day,
We know that this was not his initial justification, as already pointed out by Pax . In Hebrews 11 we read:

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed to go out unto a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he became a sojourner in the land of promise, as in a land not his own.

Since Abraham was justified in Genesis 15, after having been initially justified before that, and after having remained in communion of the Lord ever since then, it means justification is also a process taking place during the believer’s life.

tbc
 
Now let’s read again the context of Romans 4:1-4 ( sorry for the long quotation 🙂 )

3:21
But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,* through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”**
9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10 Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. 12 And he is then also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.

Paul is IMHO underlining the end, in Christ, of the previous very strict distinction between circumcised and Gentiles. Justification is for both of them, both of them can be considered children of Abraham.

Our justification, as Abrahm’s own justification, does not come from performing the works of the law of Moses.
Or from fulfilling any given list of actions. If such a precise cause-effect relation did exist, we could indeed boast, and wait for the final justification as something due. Without Christ there would be nothing we could do to deserve justification.

In this sense we are not, cannot be justified by our works

But, within the wing of Christ’s sacrificial atonement, we do have to act according to His will to get our final justification, as we can see in the previously quoted Romans 2 pericope, or a number of others you are certainly aware of.

In this sense** the process of justification depends substantively on our works, and so you can say that we are justified by works, ie we are justified acting through faith in love.

tbc*
 
I agree with this in totality.

The problem I have is that I hear that Catholics believed that when Abraham was justified in Genesis 15:6, that this was a justification by faith and works. But the problem is, it says he believed and that faith was accounted for righteousness, not works. Paul sees the principle of free grace on the whole scenario, for Abraham believed in God’s promise, and this was reckoned for righteousness.

Obviously this is not speaking of the imputation of Christ’s righteousness. But faith is considered by God to be righteousness. But faith itself is not a work. Faith and works live together, but they are distinct in some small way. Enough that Paul sees them as opposed at some point in our salvation “through faith, and not of works” (Eph 2:10).
for by grace have you been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not of works, that no man should glory.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2: 8-10

What happened in Genesis 15 is a substantial part ( neither initial nor final ) of the whole process of justification of Abraham.
Abraham through faith would walk during his whole life in the good works prepared by God, as, guided by the New Testament, we see.

Let us also listen on the present issue to an Apostolic Father, walking in the footsteps of pauline soteriology.

*Let us clothe ourselves with concord and humility, ever exercising self-control, standing far off from all whispering and evil-speaking, being justified by our works, and not our words. ……Let our praise be in God, and not of ourselves; for God hates those who commend themselves. Let testimony to our good deeds be borne by others, as it was in the case of our righteous forefathers. Boldness, and arrogance, and audacity belong to those that are accursed of God; but moderation, humility, and meekness to such as are blessed by Him.
CHAPTER 31 –
Let us cleave then to His blessing, and consider what are the means of possessing it. Let us think over the things which have taken place from the beginning. For what reason was our father Abraham blessed? was it not because he wrought righteousness and truth through faith? Isaac, with perfect confidence, as if knowing what was to happen, cheerfully yielded himself as a sacrifice. Jacob, through reason of his brother, went forth with humility from his own land, and came to Laban and served him; and there was given to him the sceptre of the twelve tribes of Israel.
CHAPTER 32 –
All these, therefore, were highly honoured, and made great, not for their own sake, or for their own works, or for the righteousness which they wrought, but through the operation of His will. And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. * 1 clement to Corinthians.

Clement states in ch. 32 that we are not justified by any performance of ours in itself. In ch 30 and 31 he clearly teaches that we are justified by our works through faith. “Let our praise be in God and not in ourselves”.

We have nothing to boast in any step of our justification.

Paul’s message IMHo is that the works of the law ( or any other specific list of actions to fulfill ) do not justify in the sense that we must not imagine we can “deserve” through them the kingdom of God, as if we could in any possible way boast that God has something as a debt with us.

Let us not do anything imagining that, because of that, God may ow something to us. We would forget that all is up to grace.

And we would NOT be acting through faith in love. 🙂

“Let all that you do be done in love” (I Corinthians 16: 14).

“Love is the fulfilling of the law” Romans 13:10

“The only thing that counts is faith acting in love” (Galatians 5: 6)

I hope something can help here.
In Christ
P7
 
I appreciate your responses.
I will have to think about this closely.

As I have been doing research on this I have gradually become aware that there is a place where “faith” and “works” are not absolutely and radically contradictory approaches to our acceptance with God.

After all, in Baptism, we are, by faith, renewed in holiness. The “faith” and “new creation” are close in relationship.

That being said, I’m glad you quotes romans 3:21-26 where the sacrifice of Jesus is at the center of the state on Paul’s talk on justification.

Could you please tell me how you understand this small section?
 
I am noticing an understanding in Catholic theology that concerns the distinctions of types of merits.

In other words, Catholics (and I am getting this from Robert Sungenis) understand the “Law of Moses” which is the covenant that God made with Israel on Mt. Sinai, to consist of the requirement of it’s members to strictly adhere to the demands of the law at the threat of being cursed. “Cursed are all those who do not continue to do all things which are written in the book of the law to do them” (Deut).

However, when it comes to grace, Catholics do not jettison all human activity in devotion to God. They understand that justification is not by the law, a strict obedience to the demands in order to be justified by keeping the commandments. But they do admit that this does not mean that we are justified by faith “alone” in the sense where all one has to do is believe and trust in Jesus’ finish work on the cross for salvation.

They hold that one has to come to Jesus Christ as Lord, as Master, and this would necessarily include repentance, a turning away from evil and sin, a confession of wicked works, converting the heart and becoming holy, AS WELL as laying hold of the agony and death of Jesus for the forgiveness of sin.

DO I have this right so far?

Therefore, in the catholic faith, justification is a grace of God for the repentant and the believing. But not just that, but those who are repentING and those who are continuing to BELIEVE. Therefore, justification remains on the person in so far as they perservere unto the end in holiness.

Is this right?
 
I am noticing an understanding in Catholic theology that concerns the distinctions of types of merits.

In other words, Catholics (and I am getting this from Robert Sungenis) understand the “Law of Moses” which is the covenant that God made with Israel on Mt. Sinai, to consist of the requirement of it’s members to strictly adhere to the demands of the law at the threat of being cursed. “Cursed are all those who do not continue to do all things which are written in the book of the law to do them” (Deut).

However, when it comes to grace, Catholics do not jettison all human activity in devotion to God. They understand that justification is not by the law, a strict obedience to the demands in order to be justified by keeping the commandments. But they do admit that this does not mean that we are justified by faith “alone” in the sense where all one has to do is believe and trust in Jesus’ finish work on the cross for salvation.

They hold that one has to come to Jesus Christ as Lord, as Master, and this would necessarily include repentance, a turning away from evil and sin, a confession of wicked works, converting the heart and becoming holy, AS WELL as laying hold of the agony and death of Jesus for the forgiveness of sin.

DO I have this right so far?

Therefore, in the catholic faith, justification is a grace of God for the repentant and the believing. But not just that, but those who are repentING and those who are continuing to BELIEVE. Therefore, justification remains on the person in so far as they perservere unto the end in holiness.

Is this right?
Yeah, pretty much, I might add all this is proceeded by grace, and one must follow that grace, to remain in a state of grace, so we go from grace to grace and remain in a state of grace.

Grace proceeds repentance and believing, both of which would be good works, as well as seeking union with Christ.
 
I appreciate your responses.
I will have to think about this closely.

As I have been doing research on this I have gradually become aware that there is a place where “faith” and “works” are not absolutely and radically contradictory approaches to our acceptance with God.

After all, in Baptism, we are, by faith, renewed in holiness. The “faith” and “new creation” are close in relationship.

That being said, I’m glad you quotes romans 3:21-26 where the sacrifice of Jesus is at the center of the state on Paul’s talk on justification.

Could you please tell me how you understand this small section?
Dear Erick,
I’ll try to focus on some possibly useful elements about Romans 3:21-26, on which you kindly ask for my humble view.

Verbs about justifying are in a present tense. That is not in support of on/off past event justification,.

But the gist is “ So whom does God’s justice justify ?”. In 3:25 the Greek has "ton ek pisteos ", literally “he that from, out of faith.”

The use of preposition “ek” in this expression in itself does not support the idea of a person just entering the faith, and that the whole of justification should be considered taking place then.
Who then is to be looked as he that from faith ? in chapter 4 we have

an explanation of why scripture says that faith was accounted for Justice to Abraham. …18 In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations, as he had been told, “So shall your offspring be.” 19 He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead (since he was about a hundred years old), or when he considered the barrenness[c] of Sarah’s womb. 20 No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, 21 fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. 22 That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.”
then we have that this refers to us… οις μέλλει λογίζεσθαι, τοις πιστεύουσιν to whom it is about to be reckoned, as to those who ( now ) believe……
…
again not a past verb as you see, related to Abraham-like action. Isn’t this a process ?

In Galatians 3 we have the same expression as in Romans 3:25, in plural nominative "case: “οι εκ πιστεως Oi ek pisteos” We are told ( verse 7) that they are children of Abraham…, not in the flesh of course, but as those who act according to Abraham’s model.
To which status is this one is opposed ? That of those who are εξ εργων νομου , ie from, out of the works of the law.
Now, it does not make sense interpreting that definition as : those just adopting the law.

It makes much more sense if we get it to mean “ those who rely on the works of the law”. Then, by strict analogy, oi ek pisteos οι εκ πιστεως are “ those who rely on faith”.

Then being justified by faith and not by the works of the law, means “by relying on faith, and not on the works of the law”.
God’s justice justifies him who relies on faith.

If you still seriosly doubt that Scriptures give a picture of justification as a process let’s go back to Romans, 6:15-16 Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves,[c] you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? ( ἢ ὑπακοῆς εἰς δικαιοσύνην; ). Obedience leads us to righteousness. Then, how can our justification be just an on/off event ? 🤷

So we could say:

We are justified relying on faith, by acting in love through obedience ( by the grace of God ) .

I hope something can help here.
In Christ
P7
 
Thank you. That was helpful.

Just out of curiosity, how has the catholic view of justification affected your life?
 
Thank you. That was helpful.
Dear Erick,

I am glad it was helpful reading last post.

I also see you are quoting several passages from St. John Chrysostom’s Homilies on Romans and you seem to accept that they teach against a Catholic view on justification.

Where do you perceive open contradictions between these homilies and the view proposed in the above post or the previous ones ?

I do hope you could already dive into the lectures by B16 that were proposed to your attention. Not the least of the merits of those reflections, is that one undertands that , by quoting passages from them, many a good will guy, Protestant, Catholic or whatever, could be led to wonder whether the Pope …has become Protestant. 🙂

And this can be most telling in getting how subtle and sometimes misunderstood these issues may turn out.
That is also manifest from the labor and time it cost to reach the great fruit :gopray2:of the Joint Declaration between the Catholic Church and most Lutheran bodies and later most Methodist. And also by the rejection of the Declaration by some other Lutheran bodies. 😦

Since the doctrine of justification appears to be a major concern of yours in your possible path back home, I may suggest to bite the bullet and read through what the Council of Trent decrees, for example going here

history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct06.html

then pointing out and sharing here what statements appear at present difficult to accept
 
Just out of curiosity, how has the catholic view of justification affected your life?
You know, I’m a cradle catholic, so there is no after/before watershed I can share. 🙂

OTOH I have been able to experience an incremental growth in the comprehension of the faith in general, which is going on fortunately, which I feel I need. I do hope that this is helping in improving my answer to the Lord.

In Christ
P7
 
Paul taught that to be “justified” was a gift that is given when someone is converted and baptized (1 Cor 6)
Was Paul justified then at his conversion on the road to Damascus or his baptism two days later?
Paul sees the principle of free grace on the whole scenario, for Abraham believed in God’s promise, and this was reckoned for righteousness.
If faith is a requirement for this righteousness then how is the grace free?
Obviously this is not speaking of the imputation of Christ’s righteousness. But faith is considered by God to be righteousness.
Faith shows God Abrahams righteous character. God recognizes Abraham as righteous because he actually was righteous. Works do the same they show God our righteous character.
Therefore, if this is the description of mankind that Paul is presenting, that all human beings are “under sin”- meaining enslaved to sin, that means that we cannot get our selves righteous by any moral or ceremonial law.
Is not faith commanded by the law?

(2Pt 1:4)Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

You fail to realize that as members of the mystical body that it’s not ourselves that get us righteousness.
I determine truth by the apostolic voice. In the NT and which has been passed early in the succession of bishops, who for years and years never once heeded to an indestructible infallible papal office particular to a petrine dynastic structure, who can never be corrected by anyone.
Name me a handful.*
The apostles never taught that Mary was channel of all graces. The church taught this.
If Mary is the mother of God than naturally she is the channel grace came. What don’t you get?*
The apostles taught the ability to marry for bishops. They church does not condone this. The apostles said peter and the rest of the apostles were married.
The Catholic Church allows married priest.
The Church teaches they were celibate during their mission.
They were.
The church believed that it was only through Jesus Christian that man might be saved.
The Church as well as the bible talks about temporal and eternal salvation. Protestants have a narrow mind of salvation.

Obad20-21 the exiles Halah who are of the people of Israel shall posses Phoenicia as far as Zarephath; and the exiles of Jerusalem who are in shepharad shall possess the cities of Negeb, saviors shall go up to mount zion to rule mount esau and the kingdom shall be the lords

Rom 11:13-14 Now I (Paul) am speaking to you Gentiles inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the gentiles I magnify my ministry in order to save some of my fellow Jews.

1Tim4:16- take heed to yourself ant to your teaching hold to that for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers

Of course this does not mean that humans bestow salvation the same way Christ does by earning it for them. But it does mean we serve as agents.

You apparently don’t believe that the Church is truly the Body of Christ.*
Since you fail to appreciate the significance of Christ’s Incarnation (and how the Church is an extension of that Incarnation), you do not recognize the truth of this; and you reduce your relationship with God to a strictly spiritual level – that is, to the level of a relationship which any Jew could have had with God before Christ’s Incarnation. Thus, you do not appreciate the gift of Emmanuel (God with us who became flesh, Matthew 1:23; John 1:14)

Dig deep enough and you’ll see this is the root of all your misunderstandings.
 
If faith simply shows abraham’s righteous character, then why is it that the word “ungodly” appears in Paul’s argument?

“What has our father Abraham found according to the flesh? For if he was justified by works, he would have reason to boast, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say: “Abraham believed God and it was reckoned to him for righteousness”. Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness” (Romans 4).

The justification of the non-workers/ungodly is set parallel with the justification of abraham.

Abraham himself is ungodly and is justified by his faith, and not his works. Otherwise, how do you fit the word ungodly into this context?
 
If faith simply shows abraham’s righteous character, then why is it that the word “ungodly” appears in Paul’s argument?

“What has our father Abraham found according to the flesh? For if he was justified by works, he would have reason to boast, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say: “Abraham believed God and it was reckoned to him for righteousness”. Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness” (Romans 4).

The justification of the non-workers/ungodly is set parallel with the justification of abraham.

Abraham himself is ungodly and is justified by his faith, and not his works. Otherwise, how do you fit the word ungodly into this context?
Because its all Gods work. We can not justify ourselves. Remember grace is preceded by no merits this includes faith.
 
Anyone who performs a single act does so by efficacious grace.God requires faith and works but He brings about the faith and works by efficacious grace becauseEternal Beatitude surpasses our natural capacity and since we not attain eternal life by our own natural powers we must be given that grace to that end by God directed by God as an arrow is directed by an archer.
 
“God willed works” do exist.

We are given freedom of will by God to obey His will and DO a “God willed work” or not do a “God willed work”.

If God wills and asks us to DO a “God willed work” and we use our freedom of will and refuse to do that “God willed work” and unrepentantly then die:

We go to Hell!

In that case salvation by “Faith alone” does not save!

Who cares about “works of the law” or “man initiated works”?

The ONLY thing that matters is whether or not by exercise of our free will we cooperate with God and let God save us by allowing His grace to continue through performance of “God willed works”!
 
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