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Pax
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Yes, Apophasis these false teachers were at some earlier point justified in Christ. 2 Peter 2:1 says: “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you,…They will even deny the Master who bought them…” Remember we are the household of God, and just as false prophets arose among the chosen “people” in the OT they will also arise among us. That means they will come from members of the household that turn away from our Redeemer.
It has already been pointed out that when the NT refers to Christ having purchased/bought someone that it is a reference to salvation.
Furthermore, we know that Christian believers are frequently referred to as “adopted sons and daughters” and “children of God.” In 2 Peter 2:14 the apostle refers to the false teachers as “Accursed children!” and he goes on to say, “They have left the straight road and gone astray.” You cannot leave the straight road and go astray unless you were first on the straight road to begin with. They were members of the household but they have since gone astray.
James also reinforces what Peter is saying by pointing out that “whoever brings back a sinner from wandering will save the sinner’s soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.”[James 5:20] The sinner has being brought back to where he once was. He once walked in the Spirit, then as a sinner walked in the flesh. He is then brought back and no longer walks in the flesh, but walks in the Spirit.
Matthew 24:11-13 says, “And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. and because of the increase of lawlessness, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to end will be saved.”
I hope this helps.
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Pax
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This is truly a fiction. In Romans 6:22-23 Paul says the following:
“But now that you have been freed from sin and enslaved to God, the advantage you get is sanctification. The end is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
Please note how intimately sanctification is tied to salvation, and please note that nowhere in scripture is the distinction made between positional and experiential justification or sanctification as you like to preach. Paul also refutes your notions in 1 Corinthians 1:30-31 when he says, that "He[God] is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption, in order that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.” This is the same language applied to justification, and we cannot boast of these as if they come from us, for they come from God. Both sanctification and justification are wrought in us by grace. Grace is a gift.
Paul also says, " but we must always give thanks to God for you, brothers and sisters beloved by the Lord, beause God chose you as the first fruits for **salvation through sanctification by the spirit **and through belief in the truth."[2 Th 2:13] We are sanctified by the blood of Christ and the Holy Spirit. Grace is a gift, sanctification is a gift and the gift of salvation is through sanctification by the spirit and belief in the truth.
I hope this helps.
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Antonius_Lupus
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This interpretation is typical reformed Evangelical theology. I remember it well from my days as an Evangelical.
What is really interesting is that this particular interpretation is an invention of Protestants.
The Early Church did not agree with this:
“And pray ye without ceasing in behalf of other men; for there is hope of the repentance, that they may attain to God. For ‘cannot he that falls arise again, and he may attain to God.’” Ignatius of Antioch, To the Ephesians, 10 ( A.D. 110).
“Watch for your life’s sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour in which our Lord cometh. But often shall ye come together, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if ye be not made perfect in the last time.” Didache, 16 (A.D. 90).
“And as many of them, he added, as have repented, shall have their dwelling in the tower. And those of them who have been slower in repenting shall dwell within the walls. And as many as do not repent at all, but abide in their deeds, shall utterly perish…Yet they also, being naturally good, on hearing my commandments, purified themselves, and soon repented. Their dwelling, accordingly, was in the tower. **But if any one relapse into strife, he will be east out of the tower, and will lose his life.” **Hermas, The Shephard, 3:8:7 (A.D. 155).
"[T]hat eternal fire has been prepared for him as he apostatized from God of his own free-will, and likewise for all who unrepentant continue in the apostasy, he now blasphemes, by means of such men, the Lord who brings judgment [upon him] as being already condemned, and imputes the guilt of his apostasy to his Maker, not to his own voluntary disposition." Justin Martyr, fragment in Irenaeus’ Against Heresies, 5:26:1 (A.D. 156).
“But some think as if God were under a necessity of bestowing even on the unworthy, what He has engaged (to give); and they turn His liberality into slavery. But if it is of necessity that God grants us the symbol of death, then He does so unwilling. But who permits a gift to be permanently retained which he has granted unwillingly? For do not many afterward fall out of (grace)? Is not this gift taken away from many?” Tertullian, On Repentance, 6 (A.D. 204).
“Confession is the **beginning **of glory, not the **full **desert of the crown; nor does it perfect our praise, but it initiates our dignity; and since it is written, ‘He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved,’ whatever has been before the end is a step by which we ascend to the summit of salvation, not a terminus wherein the full result of the ascent is already gained.” Cyprian, Unity of the Church, 21 (A.D. 251).
“Therefore, my beloved, we also have received of the Spirit of Christ, and Christ dwelleth in us, as it is written that the Spirit said this through the month of the Prophet: --I will dwell in them and will walk in them. Therefore let us prepare our temples for the Spirit of Christ, and let us not grieve it that it may not depart from us. Remember the warning that the Apostle gives us:–Grieve not the Holy Spirit whereby ye have been sealed unto the day of redemption. For from baptism do we receive the Spirit of Christ … And whatever man there is that receives the Spirit from the water (of baptism) and grieves it, **it departs from him until he dies, and returns according to its nature to Christ, and accuses that man of having grieved it.” **Aphrahat, Demonstrations, 6:14 (A.D. 345).
But alas, according to some Evangelicals, the Church fell into apostasy after the Apostles died.
Only to be re-enlightened by the Protestant “Reformation”.
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guanophore
Guest
Well, not saved in the way you use the word, apo. I don’t believe that anyone can be “sanctified by association”. That is a preposterous notion!
Sounds like the Mormons baptizing themselves on behalf of the dead.
Yes, the people spoken of by Peter were “among” them. Believers. Also these in Corinth:
7 To have lawsuits at all with one another is defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 But you yourselves wrong and defraud, and that even your own brethren.
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. 1 Cor 6:7-11
There are lawsuits among the brethren. Paul lists the unregenerate fruits that demonstrate a person will not go to heaven (unless you will now argue that "inherit the kingdom of God is something other than salvation). These people were washed (baptized) sanctified, justified, and still behaving badly. Paul is telling them that acting this way will result in a failure to inherit the kingdom.
1 Cor 5:9-13
9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with immoral men; 10 not at all meaning the immoral of this world, or the greedy and robbers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But rather I wrote to you not to associate with any one who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or robber - not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Drive out the wicked person from among you.”
I guess what you are saying is that the men described in Peter, and also here, are not really “saved”. The question is, how did they get into the church? They had to be baptized, and make a profession of faith (not necessarily in that order) and have had hands laid on them, and most likely manifested the spiritual gifts such as tongue speaking. Yet, they are “guilty of immorality”.
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guanophore
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11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God." 1 Cor 6:11
Are you saying that washing, sanctification, and justification did not happen all at the same time? Elsewhere it is made clear that the washing with the pure water of baptism sanctifies and justifies. Perhaps we are just having semantics problems?
If sanctification is made possible by the offering of the body of Jesus, I don’t see how it can be any other than a gift. This is synonmous with justification, by His blood.
10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." Heb 10:10
14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified".Heb 10:13-14
“…and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified”,Heb 10:29
The offering of blood is gift, therefore, the sanctification produced by it is also gift.
“chosen and destined by God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood”:1 Peter 1:2
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mikeledes
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Here is a verse that contradicts the notion of eternal security:
1 Timothy 3:6 (KJV)
**6Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. **
1 Timothy 3:6 (NASB)
6and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.
1 Timothy 3:6 (NIV)
6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.
This verse would not make sense if the person never escaped condemnation in the first place. Note that the plainly given cause of his falling into “the condemnation incurred by the devil” is his becoming conceited, not his lack of genuine faith.
God Bless,
Michael
1 Timothy 3:6 (KJV)
**6Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. **
1 Timothy 3:6 (NASB)
6and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.
1 Timothy 3:6 (NIV)
6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.
This verse would not make sense if the person never escaped condemnation in the first place. Note that the plainly given cause of his falling into “the condemnation incurred by the devil” is his becoming conceited, not his lack of genuine faith.
God Bless,
Michael
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mikeledes
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