"Works" Salvation?

[apophasis]

We agree that the bible is clear.

1. Justification alone is required to see God.
2. But Hebrews 12:14 teaches that a sanctification that must be strived for is required to see God.
   Since Justification removes all our sins and the penalty of them,

Actually justification doesn’t deal with sin, Christ’s redemptive work on the cross does. As our Kinsman Redeemer He paid the ransom price in His blood. Justificaton is the gifting of Christ’s righteousness to the redeemed.

but sanctification that must be strived for is required to see God, then jusfication must include sanctification.

1 Cor 1:2 “To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling,”

1 Cor. 1:30 "But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

1 Cor. 6:11 "Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Acts 26:18 "to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.’

This is exactly what the Church has always taught,

Above is what your church should teach. While sanctification is experiential this side of glory, most importantly it is also positional. God has ultimately sanctified every true believer eternally in Christ Jesus. Without this positional sanctification one will not see the Lord.

Therefore sanctification is part of justification.

No, to be theologically correct, both sanctification and justification are parts of the complete divine salvation, wrought in Christ, gifted to the one who believes in Him.

 

[apophasis]

No your logic again fails. Nonfunctional means the gift which is THE CAR fails to function at all. The car is analogous to the gift of salvation to us. The car does belong to the child, yet it is a pile of junk, just as a person who fails to obey the moral law of Christ who once knew Him has volitionally taken themselves away from Him and by grave and sinful actions which God opposes. 1 Cor 6 explains them.

Analogies can go only so far and then we must appeal to the Word of God itself:1 Pet. 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to {obtain} an inheritance {which is} imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."No one can destroy this “car,” (Edited by Moderator).

Oh yeah, now what exactly is this “moral law” you must obey and if not destroys salvation? Please be specific.

 

[sandusky]

Actually justification doesn’t deal with sin, Christ’s redemptive work on the cross does. As our Kinsman Redeemer He paid the ransom price in His blood. Justificaton is the gifting of Christ’s righteousness to the redeemed.1 Cor 1:2 “To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling,”

1 Cor. 1:30 "But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

1 Cor. 6:11 "Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Acts 26:18 "to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.'Above is what your church should teach. While sanctification is experiential this side of glory, most importantly it is also positional. God has ultimately sanctified every true believer eternally in Christ Jesus. Without this positional sanctification one will not see the Lord.No, to be theologically correct, both sanctification and justification are parts of the complete divine salvation, wrought in Christ, gifted to the one who believes in Him.

 

[Church_Militant]

God forbid that the Word of God might remove the “eternal security” blanket from the arms of those who cling to it like a frightened child.

But that’s all it is. A cherry picked set of verses to reinforce something that some n-Cs desperately wish to be true when in fact the rest of the New Testament does not support it at all.

 

[dessert]

Actually, in Matt. 25 He separates the “sheep” from the “goats.” Being “sheep” they were already saved (obviously through faith). The works were done because His sheep hear His voice and they follow Him:John 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;"Notice, He knows them. They’re His sheep. A shepherd knows his sheep.

Actually, the shepherd seperated the sheep from the goats at the evening when he drew them to the cave to be safe for the night. During the day they were allowed to graze together as the goats were a more excitable animal and kept moving but the evening was when the shepherd wanted the sheep to settle down and rest as the sheep were so nevous also the shepherd was onwatch for the wolves.

I think these verses want us to get into a quiet mood to listen to the voice of the Lord I find that even my Cathholic music needs to be extra quiet. Kind of hard to do in this noisy world today.

A good study on the 23 Psalm is on the thread called…
23 Psalm

Goats maybe can be more doers of the word but not hearers of the word but I believe that we do work together for the Church and hear His voice sometimes God has to call my name several times even loudly like helloooo. Dessert

 

[dessert]

Actually justification doesn’t deal with sin, Christ’s redemptive work on the cross does. As our Kinsman Redeemer He paid the ransom price in His blood. Justificaton is the gifting of Christ’s righteousness to the redeemed.1 Cor 1:2 “To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling,”

1 Cor. 1:30 "But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

1 Cor. 6:11 "Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Acts 26:18 "to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.'Above is what your church should teach. While sanctification is experiential this side of glory, most importantly it is also positional. God has ultimately sanctified every true believer eternally in Christ Jesus. Without this positional sanctification one will not see the Lord.No, to be theologically correct, both sanctification and justification are parts of the complete divine salvation, wrought in Christ, gifted to the one who believes in Him.

422; What is justification?
Justification is the most excellent work of God’s love. It is the merciful and freely-given act of God which takes away our sins and makes us just and holy in our whole being. It is brought about by means of the grace of the Holy Spirit which has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ and is given to us in Baptism. Justification is the beginning of the free response of man, that is , faith in Christ and of cooperation with the grace of the Holy spirit.

425;What is the relationship between grace and human freedom?
Grace precedes, prepares and elicits our free response. It responds to the deep yearnings of human freedom, calls for its cooperation and leads freedom toward its perfection.

Compendium

Dessert

 

[dessert]

Analogies can go only so far and then we must appeal to the Word of God itself:1 Pet. 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to {obtain} an inheritance {which is} imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."No one can destroy this “car,” Tiger.

Oh yeah, now what exactly is this “moral law” you must obey and if not destroys salvation? Please be specific.

This moral law is called “love” and bearing one another 's burden without getting caught up in the sin.
Galations 6
also refer to Cor 3;13 Dessert

 

[guanophore]

You deny works of any kind, that’s the problem.

I don’t think he is denying works of any kind. He affirms that works are important, just that they are not part of salvation.

yes, he just does not link them with the justification

What would happen if you were willing to separate the concept of justification (as a legal act) from sanctification? Did I read in another post of yours that they were part and parcel of the same thing?

I agree with you that the only scriptural model is not a declarative forensic. However, I disagree that this is a Luther/Calvin fallacy. This is an Apolstolic teaching. Granted, the reformers took that teaching in isolation from others, thereby resulting in distortion, but the fact remains, we are declared righteous from a forensic point of view:

"God … having canceled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross. (Col 2:14) "

There was a warrant for us (bond) with a death penalty. Jesus paid our debt on the cross. So, the warrant is “set aside”. That is a gift, and unmerited favor gving by God out of love for us. Now…since we no longer have the death penalty against us, and we have been cleansed by baptism, what now? Go, and sin no more, says the Christ.

And God’s gifts are irrevocable because God won’t ever let anyone else take our salvation except US by our choosing to disobey Him. However, God’s gifts are also conditional, the condition is that WE do the corporal works of charity.

I think this is the hangup point for Apophasis. Your assertion that the gift is conditional is not consistent with the Teaching. The death warrant was nailed to the cross for all. Even the Jews who "rejected the purpose of God for themselves’ had their warrant paid. However, they did not show up to claim their bail! Likewise, the free gift is given, but those that choose not to partake will not benefit from it.

But if you read James 2 and Mt 25 you will see the greater picture of what God requires for salvation.

Yes, there is much more required for us to actualize freedom. Contining in His word is a lifelong process, knowing the truth, and becoming progressively free. This process, also called “sanctiication” is build on the legal foundation of justification.

“If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
John 8:31-32

 

[guanophore]

What did Jesus tell Nicodemus he needed to do to be saved? Would Jesus tell us something different? What does the Catholic Church say is needed for salvation?

God Bless,
Robert

No, but He would tell additional. Jesus had many things to say about salvation in addition to this. Why leave out the rest?

catholic.com/library/salvation.asp

 

[guanophore]

Actually justification doesn’t deal with sin, Christ’s redemptive work on the cross does. As our Kinsman Redeemer He paid the ransom price in His blood. Justificaton is the gifting of Christ’s righteousness to the redeemed.1 Cor 1:2 “To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling,”

1 Cor. 1:30 "But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

1 Cor. 6:11 "Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Acts 26:18 "to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.’

Above is what your church should teach. While sanctification is experiential this side of glory, most importantly it is also positional. God has ultimately sanctified every true believer eternally in Christ Jesus. Without this positional sanctification one will not see the Lord.No, to be theologically correct, both sanctification and justification are parts of the complete divine salvation, wrought in Christ, gifted to the one who believes in Him.

Apo, with all due respect to your passion and persistence, it seems a bit pompous to hear you saying “the abofe is what your church should teach”. Not only does it border on breaking the forum rules, it is predicated upon ignorance and misunderstanding. You have been told repeatedly that the chuch DOES teach this, you have been given official documents demonstrating this. Therefore, to make a comment of this kind I can only understand as hardness of heart and understanding on your part, which is indicative of promoting some personal agenda to lambaste the faith.

 

[guanophore]

Analogies can go only so far and then we must appeal to the Word of God itself:1 Pet. 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to {obtain} an inheritance {which is} imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."No one can destroy this “car,” Tiger.

Let’s not stop reading too soon! Yes, the treasure is kept in heaven imperishable…

13 **Therefore **gird up your minds, be sober, set your hope fully upon the grace that is coming to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, 15 but as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in all your conduct; 16 since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.” 17 And if you invoke as Father him who judges each one impartially according to his deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile.
1 Peter 1:13-17

Remember, whenever you see a “therefore” look and see what it is there for? BECAUSE we are justified and our treasure is being kept, we must then…WORK!!!
Gird
Set hope
Obey
Conform to the Holy
Invoke the father
etc.

I was thinking about this yesterday at Mass during the reading of the parable of the prodigal son. He demanded his inheritance (which was pretty arrogant). “Then he squandered his property in loose living. 14 And when he had spent everything…” Luke 15:13-14

The parable is about how the Father receives us back with such joy, after we throw away everything He has given us. But, what if the son had not “come to himself”. Do you think, had he starved to death in a foreign country, longing for the pig pods, that he still would have been 'saved". And further, what good is having the ineritance to such a one, who throws away?

 

[dessert]

What did Jesus tell Nicodemus he needed to do to be saved? Would Jesus tell us something different? What does the Catholic Church say is needed for salvation?

God Bless,
Robert

---

God commands us to “test all things.”​

119; In what way did Christ offer himself to the Father?
The entire life of Christ was a free offering to the Father to carry out his plan of salvation. He gave “his life as a ransom for many” (Mark 10;45) and in this way reconciled all of humanity with God. His suffering and death showed how his humanity was the free and perfect instrument of that divine love which desires the salvation of all people. Compendium
Dessert

 

[dessert]

Analogies can go only so far and then we must appeal to the Word of God itself:1 Pet. 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to {obtain} an inheritance {which is} imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."No one can destroy this “car,” Tiger.

Oh yeah, now what exactly is this “moral law” you must obey and if not destroys salvation? Please be specific.

No one is trying to steal your car but it does have to run on gas so think of faith as the gas that makes the car go and works the MPG you get on the road but alas don’t get into a ditch or watch out for the devil on the road
I like your analogy but sometimes it should be put more interms of God’s promises and no one wants to steal anything from you and Jesus fullfilled God’s promises so this is my wish for you that you receive blessings from God:blush:
Analogys don’t always work.
Peace!
Dessert

 

[apophasis]

Church Militant:

God forbid that the Word of God might remove the “eternal security” blanket from the arms of those who cling to it like a frightened child.

No, no! The eternal aspect of divine salvation is not a “blanket” but a “comforter,” divinely designed to cover all the redeemed. True believers need no “security blanket” since there is no fear involved. Fear is reserved for those who “suppress the truth in unrighteousness.”

 

[Truthstalker]

No, no! The eternal aspect of divine salvation is not a “blanket” but a “comforter,” divinely designed to cover all the redeemed. True believers need no “security blanket” since there is no fear involved. Fear is reserved for those who “suppress the truth in unrighteousness.”

How do you know objectively that you are one of the elect? Could you possibly be mistaken about this? Not everyone who says “Lord” shall enter the kingdom of heaven. If you cannot be mistaken, how is that possible, being human?

 

[heisenburg]

Luke 3:7-14 NIV

John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. The axe is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”
“What should we do then?” the crowd asked.
John answered, “The man with two tunics should share with him who has none, and the one who has food should do the same.”
Tax collectors also came to be baptized. “Teacher,” they asked, “what should we do?”
“Don’t collect any more than you are required to,” he told them. Then some soldiers asked him, “And what should we do?”
He replied, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.”

 

[Keikiolu]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keikiolu forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
*The teaching of the Church (Catholic) is that if one is “good” one may be graced by God with salvation.

Thus,… no one is left out.*

That is correct, and exactly my point.

Yeah…! Agreeableness…! Blessings be…!

Quote:
The point of being a member of the Church is that it gives one the BEST chance of salvation because it the most FULL measure of faith available.
Indeed; but CCC 846 also notes that it is not the only means, though certainly being in the Church is the best means.

More agreeableness. Wonderful…!

Quote:
Salvation is ALWAYS a matter between an individual and God.
Yes and no. Yes, since a person is answerable to God, though it is also a no since a person must work within a community, and the Church is that community. He is after all a member of it. So in a better sense, salvation is matter between an individual and God through the Church.

I agree (AGAIN!), but I would state it as:

Salvation is ALWAYS a matter between an individual and God, and the individual is ONLY AN INDIVIDUAL within his community because it’s impossible for a person to be without a community, due to the nature of man, which is to never be “alone”.

No man is an island.

So,… we agree again…! Hoorah…!

Quote:
He who is worthy in God’s eye will be saved, and all others will not be. Period.
Ah, but what is the basis then of this worthiness of ours then?

That is God’s business (He sets the “rules”), which is not REALLY for us to know, other than what He has revealed to us.

Therefore, depending on what you believe has been revealed, you are more or less following His “rules”.

BUT,… regardless of what you believe, God makes the final judgement.

Quote:
If you think you can’t be condemned after being “saved”, you suffer from an illness.
That is most correct.

More agreeableness…! Excellent…!!

Quote:
If you only do good because you think you can “bargain with God” for salvation, then you suffer from another illness.
That is correct, though I do not find this attitude very often. It would be a selfish individual who does so.

Since it’s easier to be an atheist or agnostic than to be a “believer” who chooses to “bargain” with God, most of the people who would “bargain” simply take the easier road of agnosticism or atheism.

This is actually one of the things that brought me to the Church (Catholic).

I had always been, essentialy, a pan-theist,… but slowly evolved into a deist because of “prodding” from agnostics and especially atheists. (I didn’t find them personally appealing, as people, because of what their beliefs “did” to them, and was driven “the other way”, into deism.)

As a pan-theist, my belief was that God was diffused “into” the universe.

As a deist, my belief was that God started the universe “going”, then “withdrew” to not interfere ever again.

Eventually the idea of a God who would simply “start the machinery” and never again have anything to do with His creation just sounded SILLY in the extreme.

Therefore I “slid” into God having an actual personality (3 of them I was to discover!). At this point, I “discovered” that I NEEDED a “Church” which would be universal, applying to ALL HUMAN BEINGS.

Which Church fit? Which Church specifically states that God chooses to save “his own” according to HIS “rules”, regardless of the situation of the person, if they are GOOD PEOPLE, even if they are not formally “church-goers”.

What kind of Church allows such a possibility!? The TRUE one.

THE Church…!! (Catholic)

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[apophasis]

quanophore:

Apo, with all due respect to your passion and persistence, it seems a bit pompous to hear you saying “the abofe is what your church should teach”. Not only does it border on breaking the forum rules, it is predicated upon ignorance and misunderstanding. You have been told repeatedly that the chuch DOES teach this, you have been given official documents demonstrating this.

I’m sorry that you read pomposity into my statement. I actually said it with great grief in my heart. I have yet to find, nor have shown on this thread, any official RC document that teaches the positional aspect of sanctification that Paul teaches in his Epistles, and was commanded to him to reveal to the Gentiles by Christ Himself in the Apostolic ministry He assigned to them. Shouldn’t every church teach Pauline theology?

I was thinking about this yesterday at Mass during the reading of the parable of the prodigal son. He demanded his inheritance (which was pretty arrogant). “Then he squandered his property in loose living. 14 And when he had spent everything…” Luke 15:13-14 The parable is about how the Father receives us back with such joy, after we throw away everything He has given us.

First of all I do not think the parable of the PS is at all soteriological in nature. It’s handled all within the family, between father and son. Secondly, in the parable the father relinquishes over to his son the control of his inheritance, but that is not at all what Peter reveals concerning the true believer’s inheritance in Christ:1 Pet 1:3-5 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, {to obtain} an inheritance imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.Thirdly, it is clearly seen in the parable that although the son squandered his inheritance (not a direct parallel to the believer’s eternal inheritance in Christ), what could not be thrown away recklessly was his status of sonship. It was a right of birth:John 1:12 “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, {even} to those who believe in His name,”

Rom 8:15 "For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!”"An extremely powerful aspect of salvation is the true believer’s adoption to the status of sonship. It’s part of being “born again” not through baptism but through personal faith in Christ. What we learn from the parable of the PS is the father’s unconditional love for his son and was always ready to receive him back into fellowship. He never disowned him. Now what is pitiful, is the jealous reaction of the other son. There’s much to be learned about him, don’t you think?.

 

[heisenburg]

What does the bible say about those that were given the grace and forgiveness of god, Does the bible give us any hints on if they can loose that grace?

Matthew 18:23-35 NIV

"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

"The servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.

"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.’

"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.

"Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.”

Please Remember… the bible does not contradict itself… if you think you have a contradiction, then it is your understanding that is wrong, not the bible

In Christ

 

[jimmy]

Excerpt from 1345 in the CCC:

“Then we all rise together and offer prayers* for ourselves . . .and for all others, wherever they may be, so **that we may be found righteous by our life and actions, and faithful to the commandments, so as to obtain eternal salvation.” **

As a Catholic growing up, it was this kind of language that really made me believe that I have to earn salvation and favor with God. Do you not agree that this type of teaching fosters a “works” salvation (works being the means of our salvation?? Truly, the commandments were not given that we might obtain salvation through them but that the knowledge of sin would come by them. That is the first and foremost purpose of the law/commandments. Otherwise, I as a Christian, now love His law and live by it - out of love for Him and to please Him…not as a means of salvation.

Romans 3:20 KJV 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Looking for comments.

Read the end of the semon on the mount. “21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.”[Matt.7]

Also read Matt.25.

Paul says fornicators and liers and theives and etc. will not recieve salvation. Revelation says nothing impure shall enter heaven.

Works are necessary for salvation. Without works faith is dead as James2 makes clear.

The law has nothing to do with good works. Paul is writing against the Judaizers in Romans. The Judaizers were saying that the Mosaic law was necessary for salvation and that you could not follow Christ without following the Mosaic law as given in the Torah. Paul is writing against this. That is why he says, ‘works of the law’.

Yes, of course we do good works out of love for God. God works for the sake of good works are meaningless. They only have meaning when they are done for the love of God(or of man as well). But we still have to do those good works because they have been placed before us. To refuse to do them shows really how much we love God. Without love, there is no salvation. If you have not love you are nothing as Paul says in 1Cor.13. Love is necessary for salvation. As Paul says, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision: but faith that worketh by charity.[Galatians5]”