"Works" Salvation?

[lak611]

This whole argument is semantic in nature. To the Catholic, justification includes sanctification. A living faith is a continual faith that will continue to obey, that will continue justification past initial justification. A life of faith is not five minutes at the altar and then a free ride; the life of faith begins then, often, and then is challenged concerning perseverance and obedience. I do not believe it is coincidental that the Greek words for “faith”, “faithful” and “obedient” are so closely interrelated. It is one concept.

:clapping: :extrahappy: :bowdown2:

 

[Milliardo]

Many people often mention that the Bible never says we are saved by faith alone and that the phrase “faith alone” occurs only once in James where it says that we are not saved by faith alone. If this is so, then do some say we are justified by faith alone and not by works? Because the Bible teaches that we are justified by faith alone, and not by works.

The following is a list of verses about being saved by faith. Please take note that faith and works are contrasted. …

Again, works/Law is contrasted with faith repeatedly and we are told that we are not justified by works in any way. Therefore, we are made right with God by faith, not by faith and our works; hence, faith alone.

These are old, rehashed quotes; we’ve been talking about them for a long time not only on this thread, but in others as well. Do a search and you’ll find the same quotes cropping up from those who are convinced by faith alone. Now, let’s break this down a bit, in order to understand what each is talking about. Starting with Romans 3-5 (I’ll collapse them all into one, since as you can see, its thought is similar), we find that Paul isn’t talking about good works when he means works here, but works of the Law. As many have noted here, good works and works of the Law are different. The question I often posit on this is fairly simple: would Paul change his stance from Romans 2–where he states clearly that God’s basis for Judgment is our works–to Romans 3-5? Hardly; Paul will later (and I’ve quoted this as well a number of times) say: Love is the fulfillment of the Law (Romans 13:10). So far from saying that works is not required, he actually affirms it! So much for justification by faith alone then. That alone already buries that notion, as well as puts Romans 3-5 in its proper perspective.Ditto for Romans 9-11; Paul isn’t against good works, to say the least. 1 Corinthians 13 is clear on this. It would take someone who would isolate certain passages from each other to come up with the claim that Paul is talking about justification by faith alone.

We then go with this thought to Galatians 2:16; 21–notice, he clearly states works of the Law. Not good works. I think Protestants try to see good works to mean works of the Law; this isn’t what Paul had in mind, or else he wuld contradict Jesus’ teachings. But we must remember something important: Paul must be in harmony with what Christ taught, or not at all. Since the latter would be heretical if not outright blasphemy, we can conclude then that Paul is in consonance with what Jesus taught. We’ve gone over what He taught; we will not repeat it here. This, by the way, still carries over Galatians 3:5-6. 24, which you have quoted. Notice, again: works of the Law Scott Hahn made the same observation about this one: Paul is not pitting good works against faith, but works of the Law against faith. Remember again the charges of Jesus against the Pharisees–you have your clue there as to what works of the Law are. So, are they good works? Hardly.

Funny then that one should quote Philippians 3:9, for there one would find exactly what Catholics have been saying here all along: it is not from the Law, but a righteousness based on faith. Or, if we see it more clearly, a righteousness that is hinged on obedience, which is Jesus’ basis for what a faithful man is. Obedience. “Do my Father’s will”. So, as you can see, Paul is not talking about good works vs. faith, but works of the Law against faith.

Now, as to your contention–have you read the Judgment passages? What are they saying? Isn’t it that Judgment is the ultimate in our salvation, and that in Judgment we are justified by what we’ve done, because that shows God our faithfulness to Him?

 

[sandusky]

Milliardo:

Starting with Romans 3-5 (I’ll collapse them all into one, since as you can see, its thought is similar), we find that Paul isn’t talking about good works when he means works here, but works of the Law. As many have noted here, good works and works of the Law are different.

We then go with this thought to Galatians 2:16; 21–notice, he clearly states works of the Law. Not good works.

I think Protestants try to see good works to mean works of the Law; this isn’t what Paul had in mind, or else he wuld contradict Jesus’ teachings.

But we must remember something important: Paul must be in harmony with what Christ taught, or not at all. Since the latter would be heretical if not outright blasphemy, we can conclude then that Paul is in consonance with what Jesus taught. We’ve gone over what He taught; we will not repeat it here. This, by the way, still carries over Galatians 3:5-6. 24, which you have quoted. Notice, again: works of the Law Scott Hahn made the same observation about this one: Paul is not pitting good works against faith, but works of the Law against faith. Remember again the charges of Jesus against the Pharisees–you have your clue there as to what works of the Law are. So, are they good works? Hardly.

So, as you can see, Paul is not talking about good works vs. faith, but works of the Law against faith.

That’s not so.

You are redefining works of charity, and works of love, as not-Law.

Works of charity, and works of love are works of THE LAW Leviticus 19:18
18 ‘You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the Lord.

Compare With:

Matthew 22:39
39 “The second {commandment} is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

Read Gal 3, pay particular attention to vv21-25; and read Gal 4:21-5:6, in which, Paul’s point is that the Law, and the Gospel cannot co-exist. Faith working through love is freedom from the law.

The difference between the Law, and Grace/Faith, is the difference between Life, and Death; an accurate understanding of that is critical to salvation.

If works are not excluded from salvation/justification, absolutely, then one must meet the standard of the keeping of the law, stated by the Lord in Mt 5:48:Matthew 5:48

“Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Compare With:

Galatians 3:11-12
11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.”

12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, **“He who practices them {Laws} *shall live by them.”***IOW, if you are going to live by the law, any law, instead of living by grace/faith alone, you will be guilty of the whole law, if you stumble in one small part of the law (cf Jas 2:10; Mt 5:48).

The correct understanding of this is critical.

 

[Milliardo]

That’s not so.

You are redefining works of charity, and works of love, as not-Law.

Works of charity, and works of love are works of THE LAW Leviticus 19:18
18 ‘You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the Lord.

Compare With:

Matthew 22:39
39 “The second {commandment} is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

So now you’re saying Jesus is also teaching works of the Law? Now that’s even funnier, because His Olivette Discourse was never seen as such, not even by Protestants who are bent on sola fide. Seems like you’re making another interpretation just to make sola fide work. Too bad though–it doesn’t work.

Read Gal 3, pay particular attention to vv21-25; and read Gal 4:21-5:6, in which, Paul’s point is that the Law, and the Gospel cannot co-exist. Faith working through love is freedom from the law.

If we take you seriously, then what Paul is teaching is another Gospel, one that is strictly his alone, apart from Christ’s. That is outright heresy. Since you see Christ’s injunction to love one’s neighbor as the Law (funny in itself), then you’re saying then that Paul should be seen as having his own teaching, which is apart from Christ’s. Or more directly then, the Gospel should be undermined in the face of what Paul taught. Predictable response, which doesn’t surprise me one bit anymore.

If works are not excluded from salvation/justification, absolutely, then one must meet the standard of the keeping of the law, stated by the Lord in Mt 5:48:Matthew 5:48

“Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

So, you’re saying here that what Jesus asks is impossible to comply with? How is this so? Because Paul said so? So, is Paul greater than Christ now?

See, what I find troubling here–and with right concern–is this seeming undermining of what the Lord says for what Paul says. I think there’s no further proof of this than this one, sandusky–you would think that Jesus’ criteria is impossible, since no one can be perfect, so instead you would try to force a view that–at face value anyway–is Paul’s (though that is not correct as well, since Paul should be rightly seen as complementing what Jesus said, not contradicting it).

 

[guanophore]

A simple approach is often the best:

How can a Christian actually say he follows Christ when he doesn’t believe that works and faith earn salvation? If he truly reads the teachings of Christ, he should see that the two are inseperable. St. Paul once said that, “Faith, if it hath not works, is dead.”

How can you argue with this? This says it in black and white!

It also says in black and white that we are NOT saved by our works, and that works are to no avail. It is a long thread, but read through and you will find it. Those arguing that works have no part do not distinguish between works of the flesh and works of God.

 

[guanophore]

The whole point of Romans 11:6 is that works for salvation cancels out the grace of God.

Works of the flesh are of no avail in the light of God’s unmerited favor. The works of God are those that declare His glory in our lives, and are based on the grace of our salvation:

9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people, that you may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
1 Peter 2:9

notice: YOU ARE (justified by grace) THAT YOU MAY (declare that grace through wonderful deeds. We are regenerated in baptism, and we are to demonstrate this state of sanctity so that we give glory to the father.

 

[sandusky]

Milliardo:

So now you’re saying Jesus is also teaching works of the Law? Now that’s even funnier, because His Olivette Discourse was never seen as such, not even by Protestants who are bent on sola fide. Seems like you’re making another interpretation just to make sola fide work. Too bad though–it doesn’t work.

Matthew 22:36-40

36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”
37 And He said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
38 “This is the great and foremost commandment.
39 “The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
40 “On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.” Those two commandments are the ten commandments condensed, and stated positively.

Have you ever once, not kept them both perfectly (have you never been to confession)? If you have not, then you demonstrate that the law cannot save you, and therefore, your only recourse is grace through faith alone.

What else can I say?

 

[Truthstalker]

Matthew 22:36-40

36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”
37 And He said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
38 “This is the great and foremost commandment.
39 “The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
40 “On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.” Those two commandments are the ten commandments condensed, and stated positively.

Have you ever once, not kept them both perfectly (have you never been to confession)? If you have not, then you demonstrate that the law cannot save you, and therefore, your only recourse is grace through faith alone.

What else can I say?

Christ fulfilled the Law so we don’t have to. We are not saved by works of the Law. We are saved by grace through faith.
We obey God by the power of the Holy Ghost. Do you deny that God can act through someone He has justified, or that He desires to? Do you deny sanctification, or do you find sanctification to be a ‘work of the law’?

 

[Milliardo]

Matthew 22:36-40

36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”
37 And He said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
38 “This is the great and foremost commandment.
39 “The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
40 “On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.” Those two commandments are the ten commandments condensed, and stated positively.

That is so, but on a much broader term, Jesus isn’t specifically stating they’re strictly confined to the Law either, and indeed He taught that such things are paramount than anything else. See, again your case doesn’t prove anything.

Have you ever once, not kept them both perfectly (have you never been to confession)? If you have not, then you demonstrate that the law cannot save you, and therefore, your only recourse is grace through faith alone.

One, does that mean what Jesus said is impossible? It doesn’t, and in fact should be seen rightly as Him saying that one must strive for perfection. It demonstrates that the Law cannot save you? Then are you saying that Jesus said that in vain? Again, it does not. Please note that what He wants is an obedience that would please God. Does that mean we are to abandon it then? Again, no. in striving for that perfection, we go through the pitfalls of it–not making it, going back to old habits, etc. Will He take that against us? Only if we stay down. Again, what I see here is the undesire, if you will, to do anything and just sit back and reap all the benefits without laying a finger. Which is not what the Lord taught nor intended. If being perfect is troublesome for you, then wouldn’t it be more troublesome if you resign yourself to sin, think that since you believe in Him anyway He’ll save you or that you’re saved, and then realize that since you’ve done nothing then you are cast out to wail and gnash your teeth in your bitterness in darkness? Again, as I have posted, read the Judgment passages and tell us if works is not the basis for His Judgment. If it is, wouldn’t it then be reasonable to say that works do indeed have their place in salvation?

 

[Odell]

I’m not thinking that at all; I’m sure that they were not saved; I’m equally sure that they thought that they were saved, and that they thought that the works they were doing were the will of the Father.

The point of the passage is that, on the day of judgment, there will be many who will be shocked to find out, that what they thought were good works that they were doing, that what they thought were religious works that they were doing, were in truth lawless works, and not the will of the Father; these are religious people; why else would they call Jesus Lord?

And we belive that. Many Jews thought that mosaic Law would grant them eternal life.

And not the will of the father we already established that it is the will of the father for us to do good works.

one other thing these people had to be saved in light of these verses remember we are taking the bible as a whole context.

How can we actually do mighty works and cast out demons in His name, unless we are genuinely connected to Jesus (saved) at the time? And yet, ultimately Jesus rejects some of them because of evildoing.

Jesus says it is by the Spirit that HE casts out demons…
(Mt 12:28) “But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.”

(Lk 9:1) “And he called the twelve together and gave them power and authority over all demons and to cure diseases.”

so they did lose there salvation. because of verse 26 “And everyone who listens to these words of mine and does not ACT on them will be like a fool who built his house on sand.”

 

[guanophore]

Many people often mention that the Bible never says we are saved by faith alone and that the phrase “faith alone” occurs only once in James where it says that we are not saved by faith alone.

Do you have an argument with this?

If this is so, then do some say we are justified by faith alone and not by works? Because the Bible teaches that we are justified by faith alone, and not by works.

The only people that say this are those that do not interpret their bible correctly.

 The point is that there are only two options.  We are saved by faith alone or we are not.  Since we have faith and works (both conceptually and in practice), then we are either saved by faith alone or by faith and works.  There is no other option.

It is sad to see this narrow minded approach. There are other options, though I accept that you cannot see them for yourself. " For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love." Gal 5:6

If we see that the scriptures exclude works in any form as a means of our salvation, then logically, we are saved by faith alone.

If 'we" see that, it is because “we” are not interpreting scripture correctly. If “we” are excluding parts of the bible, then of course our “logic” will also be flawed.

Rom. 11:6, “But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.”
Gal. 2:16, “nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified.”

You are confusing works of the flesh with the good works that God has created that we should walk in them.  You lump all "works" together in the same category.

Gal. 3:24, " lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."
Eph. 2:8-9, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Not by works, lest any man should boast.”

There you go again, cutting off verses you don’t want to incorporate! Don’t stop at verse nine! Read on to verse ten!

“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” Eph 2:9-10

How can you deny that we are saved, by grace, through faith, so that we can walk in good works?

Do you think that God would prepare for us works of the flesh! May it never be! No, He has prepared these Good Works for us so that we can reflect his workmanship.

Phil. 3:9, “and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.”

Again, don’t cut the verse off from it’s tail! Read on to verse ten!

Phil 3:10-11
10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 that if possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead."
Phil 3:10-11

Why are we made righteous by faith? So that we can share in His suffering (one of the Works of God) and IF POSSIBLE attain the resurrection. If it was guaranteed when we were made righteous, why does the apostle say “if”?

Again, works/Law is contrasted with faith repeatedly and we are told that we are not justified by works in any way. Therefore, we are made right with God by faith, not by faith and our works; hence, faith alone.

Yes, no one will be justified by works of the flesh. We are made right with God by faith, so that we can participate in the works of God. Our salvation is dependent upon perseverance: “provided that you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel which you heard” Col 1:22-23

I am sorry to see your truncated gospel here DLC, but I do affirm your right to it. If you wish to live according to it, then I commend you to His grace, in which you have placed all your hope.

 

[Milliardo]

My exchange in another board, since it is connected with sandusky’s problem with the perfection Christ calls us to do; those in quote are the ones made by the other poster, while the responses are the ones on comic sans ms

This is the dilemma here. Jesus Christ says that so that man will realize that he or she cannot go to heaven on their own merits! Imagine that one has to be perfect like the Father!

If you have a problem with that, then you must have a problem with Jesus’ words. Now, are you saying you doubt our Lord’s own words? What is it again, that nothing is impossible with God? So, if nothing is impossible with Him, do you think it is impossible that He asks us to be perfect? Do you think He will say that if He knows it is impossible? No, right? So, are you saying our Lord is a liar?

If you are going to be perfect like the Father, then not only do you have to stop sinning but you shouldn’t have sinned in the past and present!

Dear, are you again doubting our Lord’s words? Then that is your problem; Jesus’ point is that we must continually strive to perfection. See, the tragedy of your own notion is that you even now doubt our Lord’s words. Again, do you think He would ask that of us if He knows it’s impossible? Do you think God can be so cruel as to set us up for failure? Again, the answer is clearly no. Like I said, you have a problem with what He said, then take that up with Him. http://pinoyexchange.com/forums/images/smilies/bop.gif

  	 				Nobody can achieve a perfect life Milliardo.

I pity you again–you have lost faith in our Lord’s words and doubt what He said. What is so hard with Matthew 5:48? Is that so hard that you don’t even see it in your life? So hard that, even if it is our Lord’s words, you do not think of following it? Ah, again I pity you. I am not even sure if you are still a Christian anymore. Are you a Christian, easter? Then why do you doubt our Lord, and why do you think what He said is impossible? Or do you think Paul’s words are more paramount than the words of our Lord Himself? So, you’re not a Christian then, but a Paulinian (not the religious congregation, thankfully; God bless them).–>note: sorry, what I said here are rather harsh, but I’m just emphasizing something

All taken from my exchange here (note, you must be registered and logged in to view the whole thing): pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269349&page=2 Exchange made last September, 2006…

 

[sandusky]

Milliardo:

That is so, but on a much broader term, Jesus isn’t specifically stating they’re strictly confined to the Law either, and indeed He taught that such things are paramount than anything else. See, again your case doesn’t prove anything.

Regarding those two commandments, Jesus states:Matthew 22:40

“On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”They are the Law.

Milliardo:

One, does that mean what Jesus said is impossible? It doesn’t, and in fact should be seen rightly as Him saying that one must strive for perfection.

Absolutely; …the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, and righteous, and good—Rom 7:12.

Milliardo:

It demonstrates that the Law cannot save you? Then are you saying that Jesus said that in vain? Again, it does not.

No, Jesus did not say that in vain, but we do not make Him a liar, if we do not keep His commandments perfectly; we make Him a liar if we say that we do—1 Jn 1:10.

Milliardo:

Please note that what He wants is an obedience that would please God. Does that mean we are to abandon it then? Again, no. in striving for that perfection, we go through the pitfalls of it–not making it, going back to old habits, etc. Will He take that against us? Only if we stay down. Again, what I see here is the undesire, if you will, to do anything and just sit back and reap all the benefits without laying a finger. Which is not what the Lord taught nor intended. If being perfect is troublesome for you, then wouldn’t it be more troublesome if you resign yourself to sin, think that since you believe in Him anyway He’ll save you or that you’re saved, and then realize that since you’ve done nothing then you are cast out to wail and gnash your teeth in your bitterness in darkness?

I have nowhere, ever, at any time, said that one should not strive to keep the law perfectly; what I have said, is that the striving to keep the law is not what saves you, because the law cannot save you, as it has no power to enable you to keep it—4:15; 5:20; 6:14–15; Gal. 3:21–25

Milliardo:

Again, as I have posted, read the Judgment passages and tell us if works is not the basis for His Judgment. If it is, wouldn’t it then be reasonable to say that works do indeed have their place in salvation?

As I have posted before, everyone will be judged on his deeds; even the one who has endeavored to keep the moral law of God, apart from faith alone; and the one who has endeavored to love God, as he understands Him, apart from faith alone; and the one who has endeavored to love his neighbor, as himself, apart from faith alone; but that one will not be saved, because that one, as did the Jews, rejects God’s Messiah, and neither knows God, nor His righteousness, but instead, he seeks to establish his own righteousness, and he does not subject himself to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.—Rom 10:2-4—he is an unbeliever.

As Paul says, “*may {I} be found in Him {Christ}, not having a righteousness of my own derived from Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith. *

 

[Milliardo]

Regarding those two commandments, Jesus states:Matthew 22:40

“On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”They are the Law.

Yes, but did Jesus confine them strictly to the Law? No, or else that wouldn’t be the overall theme of the Gospel.

No, Jesus did not say that in vain, but we do not make Him a liar if we do not perfectly keep His commandments; we make Him a liar if we say that we do—1 Jn 1:10.

If we say we do, but we don’t. That is the gist of John. Again, this in no way detracts from what Jesus commanded us to do, to be perfect.

I have nowhere, ever, at any time, said that one should not strive to keep the law perfectly

And yet you implied as much, and now backtrack?

what I have said, is that the striving to keep the law is not what saves you, because the law cannot save you, as it has no power to enable you to keep it—4:15; 5:20; 6:14–15; Gal. 3:21–25

Ah, are we going to go through that again? I have made it perfectly clear–doing good is not equal to doing works of the Law. Neither Jesus nor Paul implied that. It seems though that you confine that to the Law–something Jesus never intended.

As I have posted before, everyone will be judged on his deeds; even the one who has endeavored to keep the moral law of God, apart from faith alone; and the one who has endeavored to love God, as he understands Him, apart from faith alone; and the one who has endeavored to love his neighbor, as himself, apart from faith alone; but that one will not be saved, because that one, as did the Jews, rejects God’s Messiah, and neither knows God, nor His righteousness

Hhmm…so now you agree on this. That is good; so why the objection then on a salvation hinged on faith and works if you agree on this one?

 

[dessert]

Loving your neighbor as yourself could be as simple as praying a prayer for them or the rosary or calling them on the phone or sending a card or just mentioning their name in prayer.
Is this a work of the law?
WE serve one another is the work that Jesus showed us.
Dessert

 

[Bishopite]

Ah yes, were these not those that Moses received at Mt. Sinai and were engraved on stones?

And it is your contention that it is this “moral law” that must be obeyed or one loses one’s salvation?

Have you not read 1 Cor 6:9-11"Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.That is what some of you used to be; but now you have had yourselves washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."

Notice who doesn’t obey the moral law of God! And that baptism “yourselves washed” comes before sanctification which comes before justification. In other verses justification comes first, thus the two are interchangable; both needed with baptism to be “saved.”

And can you show me in Scripture where God abolished the ten commandments??

What does Jesus say?..
John 14:12-15 "Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father. And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it. "If you love me, you will keep my commandments. "

Now compare this with Mt 25:34-40 "Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, **whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’ **

The just are those who keep the ten commandments and fulfill the law (which includes the moral law cited in 1 Cor 6:9-11) by doing works of charity or love guided by the Holy Spirit.

And keeping the ten commandments has always been a commandment of God, it is immutable and Jesus affirms this again…

Mt 19-:16-22
"Now someone approached him and said, “Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?” He answered him, "Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." He asked him, “Which ones?” And Jesus replied, " ‘You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; honor your father and your mother’; and ‘you shall love your neighbor as yourself.’" The young man said to him, “All of these I have observed. What do I still lack?” Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to (the) poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this statement, he went away sad, for he had many possessions.

Catechism…

****The obligation of the Decalogue ****
**2072 **Since they express man’s fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, *grave *obligations. They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. The Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.
**2073 **Obedience to the Commandments also implies obligations in matter which is, in itself, light. Thus abusive language is forbidden by the fifth commandment, but would be a grave offense only as a result of circumstances or the offender’s intention.
**“Apart from me you can do nothing” ****2074 **Jesus says: "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing."33 The fruit referred to in this saying is the holiness of a life made fruitful by union with Christ. When we believe in Jesus Christ, partake of his mysteries, and keep his commandments, the Savior himself comes to love, in us, his Father and his brethren, our Father and our brethren. His person becomes, through the Spirit, the living and interior rule of our activity. "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you."

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2.htm

 

[dessert]

Regarding those two commandments, Jesus states:Matthew 22:40

“On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”They are the Law.

Absolutely; …the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, and righteous, and good—Rom 7:12.

No, Jesus did not say that in vain, but we do not make Him a liar, if we do not keep His commandments perfectly; we make Him a liar if we say that we do—1 Jn 1:10.

I have nowhere, ever, at any time, said that one should not strive to keep the law perfectly; what I have said, is that the striving to keep the law is not what saves you, because the law cannot save you, as it has no power to enable you to keep it—4:15; 5:20; 6:14–15; Gal. 3:21–25

As I have posted before, everyone will be judged on his deeds; even the one who has endeavored to keep the moral law of God, apart from faith alone; and the one who has endeavored to love God, as he understands Him, apart from faith alone; and the one who has endeavored to love his neighbor, as himself, apart from faith alone; but that one will not be saved, because that one, as did the Jews, rejects God’s Messiah, and neither knows God, nor His righteousness, but instead, he seeks to establish his own righteousness, and he does not subject himself to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.—Rom 10:2-4—he is an unbeliever.

As Paul says, “may {I} be found in Him {Christ}, not having a righteousness of my own derived from Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.

In the OT Moses gave the Israelites(Jews) the ten commandments
it was a covenant of law

In the NT Jesus brings us (and the Jews) fulfilled to Abraham, a new covenant of His blood, redemption
forgiveness, love, hope, faith

And He brings these two new commandments etc
Our personal freedom from the law is our serving these
in the obedience to the Holy Spirit

If a Jew or anyone rejects Jesus Christ he is an unbeliever.

But this is for the judgement of God not us.

Chapter 2 I Believe in Jesus Christ the Only Son of God
79; What is the good news for humanity?
It is the proclamation of Jesus Christ, the “Son of the living God” (Matt 16;16), who died and rose from the dead. In the time of King Herod and the Emperor Caesar Augustus, God fulfilled the promises that he made to ABraham and his descendants. He sent “his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons” (Galations 4; 4-5). Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church

Dessert

 

[dessert]

Now did Moses get saved too? Why?

What do you think?

Dessert

 

[apophasis]

12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them {Laws} shall live by them.”[/indent]IOW, if you are going to live by the law, any law, instead of living by grace/faith alone, you will be guilty of the whole law, if you stumble in one small part of the law (cf Jas 2:10; Mt 5:48).

The correct understanding of this is critical.

[SIGN]AMEN! And this is where RCism falls short of the gospel. It keeps its devotees bound to law prohibiting them from entering fully into grace.[/SIGN]“It was for freedom that Christ set up free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be a subject again to a yoke of slavery” (Gal. 5:1)

 

[dessert]

[SIGN]AMEN! And this is where RCism falls short of the gospel. It keeps its devotees bound to law prohibiting them from entering fully into grace.[/SIGN]“It was for freedom that Christ set up free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be a subject again to a yoke of slavery” (Gal. 5:1)

ARE YOU SAYING THAT WE ARE NOT FULLY BAPTISED INTO GRACE WHEN WE ARE BAPTISED IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT? THE TRINITY?

If you do not answer I will take that as a yes from your silence.

Dessert