World Changers Church International and Creflo Dollar...

[francesco920]

I have a friend who is a former Catholic, and who now is a self-described nondenominational evangelical. His favorite preachers are World Changers Church International preachers, especially Creflo Dollar and Joyce Meyer. He’s completely bought the message of the Word of Faith movement.

I don’t know much about the World Changers or Creflo Dollar or Word of Faith, but what I have heard disturbs me…

For example, these two videos where Dollar refers to people as “gods” and denies the divinity of Christ

Does anybody have any information on World Changers or Crelfo Dollar or Word of Faith? Has anybody here once belonged to those groups? I really want to help my friend return to the Catholic faith. Thanks.

 

[francesco920]

Are there any former followers of Creflo Dollar out there? What about Word of Faith movement followers? Anybody?

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

I have to admit that I’m not completely familiar with their theology. The shows I’ve seen seem to focus on a kind of prosperity message, that one will experience financial reward if they have true faith.

He’s definitely part of some kind of non-denominaitonal church, and I have to admit that the shows I’ve seen do reflect a conservative form of evangelical Christianity-- so I don’t think you will find anything from Creflo Dollar which is that far removed from other TV evangelists.

Of course, I don’t have a high opinion of ‘certain’ TV evangelists. But Dollar (at least, from what I’ve seen) doesn’t seem to be anything remotely close to Benny Hinn for example.

Dollar seems to me more along the lines of Jim Robinson for example, a TV evangelist that I respect-- even if Dollar’s prosperity message tends to obscure the gospel message he’s preaching.

If there’s anything radically deviant in Dollar’s message, I cannot vouch for that. I’ve only seen his show about 5 or 6 times over the last 10 years or so.

Perhaps Dollar does have some non-trinitarian views. If so, I would be dissapointed to hear this, since this would step well past heresy and deep into apostasy. On the whole, however, I would be very surprised if he really was non-trinitarian.

 

[lucybeebee]

Creflo Dollar is based near where I live, so I’m quite familar with him. His “Prosperity Gospel” is a perversion of the true Gospel since it tells people that God wants you to be rich and says that Jesus was a rich man. I don’t know if he is anti-trinitarian, but the “Prosperity Gospel” is certainly a departure from both Tradition and the Bible.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

Creflo Dollar is based near where I live, so I’m quite familar with him. His “Prosperity Gospel” is a perversion of the true Gospel since it tells people that God wants you to be rich and says that Jesus was a rich man. I don’t know if he is anti-trinitarian, but the “Prosperity Gospel” is certainly a departure from both Tradition and the Bible.

Amen to that.

Apparently they never read about Elijah, probably the most prolific prophet in the Scriptures (aside from Moses), living off the scraps given to him by wild birds. The prosperity message also directly assaults the ascetic life of John the Baptist too-- and Jesus himself said that John was the greatest of the prophets.

I’m not saying that God cannot bless a person with financial security. He often does actually do this for some. But not all people are called to a rich and prosperous life. More often than not, the Lord’s grace is sufficient-- even in impoverished times.

And this doesn’t even take into effect the likelihood that God himself sometimes allows people to be stripped of their finances so that their faith in God can be made stronger, like’s Job’s faith was.

 

[francesco920]

Mr. Ex Nihlio and lucybeebee,

I share your sentiments. It seems to me, though, that Dollar and the movement he belongs to is quite cultish. My friend went to a gathering Dollar had in New York, and he told me some things I found disturbing. For one, my friend told me he was baptized because he rejects his Catholic infant baptism. Also, he spoke of being given the gift of “tongues.” I have read this in the Bible, but the version my friend speaks of seems to be a perversion of that gift mentioned in the Bible. I am concerned that it is something of the Devil. Also, my friend told me that he had “demons casted out of him.” He also told me that he can lay his hands on people and, not only cast out demons, but cure physical ailments. I am not saying that nobody can have this gift, but I am very suspicious.

I just don’t know what to do. I’ve been trying to bring him the Catholic message but it literally goes in one ear and comes out the other. He hears something that comes out of that preacher’s mouth followed by a scripture verse and he believes it. Ironically, many of these prosperity preachers seem to imply that they’re infallible. My friend goes to such trouble to defend Creflo’s statements like:

I have equality with God, that’s my way of thinking. Now somebody says, “Well, it’s hard to think that way,” Well, keep saying it, “I have equality with God” talk yourself into it! You’ve talked yourself into other things!

and

Jesus didn’t come as God, he came as a man, and he did not come perfect. Perfect in the sense that he didn’t need to be added to.

Does anybody have any suggestions? I am afraid my friend is in over his head. I also appeal again to anybody who is a former Creflo Dollar/Prosperity Gospel follower.

Thanks.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

Mr. Ex Nihlio and lucybeebee,

I share your sentiments. It seems to me, though, that Dollar and the movement he belongs to is quite cultish. My friend went to a gathering Dollar had in New York, and he told me some things I found disturbing. For one, my friend told me he was baptized because he rejects his Catholic infant baptism.

I agree that this is a very disturbing sign in and of itself.

francesco920:

Also, he spoke of being given the gift of “tongues.” I have read this in the Bible, but the version my friend speaks of seems to be a perversion of that gift mentioned in the Bible. I am concerned that it is something of the Devil. Also, my friend told me that he had “demons casted out of him.” He also told me that he can lay his hands on people and, not only cast out demons, but cure physical ailments. I am not saying that nobody can have this gift, but I am very suspicious.

Personally, I think you have a very good right to be suspicious.

I highly doubt your friend has been given these gifts by God. I’m not saying it’s impossible. Indeed, if he/she really does have these God-given charisms, then I would advise your friend to use them. I suspect, however, that when they try to use them, nothing will actually happen.

francesco920:

I just don’t know what to do. I’ve been trying to bring him the Catholic message but it literally goes in one ear and comes out the other.

Have you attempted to get them to a Catholic Charismatic meeting?

Perhaps they really do have a gift and God would love to have them partake their. Again, I’m not sure what to say regarding your friend’s claim. I’d rather not put out the fire though. Test the Spirit to see if this is a valid motion of the Spirit.

francesco920:

He hears something that comes out of that preacher’s mouth followed by a scripture verse and he believes it. Ironically, many of these prosperity preachers seem to imply that they’re infallible.

I think that’s true. Even though they don’t claim to be infallible, they often act as if they are.

francesco920:

My friend goes to such trouble to defend Creflo’s statements like…and…

I haven’t copied the quotes, but I have read them-- and I do find them disturbing too. It would appear that your friend is undertaking a form of positive thinking, mixing it with a kind of virtual self-hypnosis methodology, dressing it up in Christian lanauage, and mistaking it for a motion of the Holy Spirit.

Again, I’m not saying that the Holy Spirit canot work through this. I just don’t think that’s how God works though, as I’m sure you’ll agree.

francesco920:

Does anybody have any suggestions? I am afraid my friend is in over his head. I also appeal again to anybody who is a former Creflo Dollar/Prosperity Gospel follower.

Thanks.

I can’t help with the later part, but I do sympathize with your plight. I would suggest a charismatic renewal movement within the Catholicism. I can’t really think of anything else that your friend might be interested in though.

Has your friend recenlty lost a large sum or money (or maybe lost their job) prior to them looking toward the teachings of Dollar?

If this is the case, then Dollar’s message would be very appealing to them-- the prosperity message often works in the more impoverished parts of the world.

Prayer helps too for sure. And I’ll keep you both in my prayers too-- clarity of doctrine for your friend and patience for you as you witness to and pray for your friend.

 

[Nan_S]

Does anybody have any information on World Changers or Crelfo Dollar or Word of Faith? Has anybody here once belonged to those groups? I really want to help my friend return to the Catholic faith. Thanks.

A quick googol search turned up this: Creflo Dollar

Most everything Creflo teaches on has to do with money, that is his message. He will even joke about his own name saying he is happy his mom did not name him Creflo one dollar. However what most people do not know is that Creflo A. Dollar was born Michael Smith according to www.data.org(this is no longer posted). It is reported that he changed his name around the same time he began his new ministry 1986. The New York Press* wrote: “To those of you who don’t watch paid programming on Sunday mornings, Creflo Dollar is a televangelist. Born Michael Smith, he drives a black Rolls Royce and his teaching is the very antithesis of that nonsense about the rich man, the camel and the eye of the needle. To Creflo, it’s all about the Benjamins.*

 

[francesco920]

I agree that this is a very disturbing sign in and of itself.

Personally, I think you have a very good right to be suspicious.

I highly doubt your friend has been given these gifts by God. I’m not saying it’s impossible. Indeed, if he/she really does have these God-given charisms, then I would advise your friend to use them. I suspect, however, that when they try to use them, nothing will actually happen.

Have you attempted to get them to a Catholic Charismatic meeting?

Perhaps they really do have a gift and God would love to have them partake their. Again, I’m not sure what to say regarding your friend’s claim. I’d rather not put out the fire though. Test the Spirit to see if this is a valid motion of the Spirit.

I think that’s true. Even though they don’t claim to be infallible, they often act as if they are.

I haven’t copied the quotes, but I have read them-- and I do find them disturbing too. It would appear that your friend is undertaking a form of positive thinking, mixing it with a kind of virtual self-hypnosis methodology, dressing it up in Christian lanauage, and mistaking it for a motion of the Holy Spirit.

Again, I’m not saying that the Holy Spirit canot work through this. I just don’t think that’s how God works though, as I’m sure you’ll agree.

I can’t help with the later part, but I do sympathize with your plight. I would suggest a charismatic renewal movement within the Catholicism. I can’t really think of anything else that your friend might be interested in though.

Has your friend recenlty lost a large sum or money (or maybe lost their job) prior to them looking toward the teachings of Dollar?

If this is the case, then Dollar’s message would be very appealing to them-- the prosperity message often works in the more impoverished parts of the world.

Prayer helps too for sure. And I’ll keep you both in my prayers too-- clarity of doctrine for your friend and patience for you as you witness to and pray for your friend.

Thank you! Your feedback has been very helpful.

I like your idea about trying to get him into a Catholic Charismatic meeting. I have to get him to think beyond sola Scriptura first, though.

However, he does seem open many to Catholic beliefs; for example, the Eucharist. In many cases, I have a feeling that he just ‘doesn’t get it’ when it comes to Catholic teachings. It shows how great the CCD is at my parish, doesn’t it? I am certain that if he had been properly catechized he would not be in this situation.

And no, he has not experienced financial loss. He and I are both high school juniors, so this cannot be the factor. I think it is their charismatic style that attracts him. After all, they promise not only salvation but “prosperity” or “wealth and health.” They teach that if you believe that God will give you something, then He will give it to you. I think they are taking the great gift of faith given to my friend (and so many others) and perverting it.

Thank you so much for your prayers and advice. I will see if there is a charismatic Catholic parish somewhere around here (that is completely in line with orthodox Catholic doctrine, of course.)

 

[francesco920]

A quick googol search turned up this: Creflo Dollar

Most everything Creflo teaches on has to do with money, that is his message. He will even joke about his own name saying he is happy his mom did not name him Creflo one dollar. However what most people do not know is that Creflo A. Dollar was born Michael Smith according to www.data.org(this is no longer posted). It is reported that he changed his name around the same time he began his new ministry 1986. The New York Press* wrote: “To those of you who don’t watch paid programming on Sunday mornings, Creflo Dollar is a televangelist. Born Michael Smith, he drives a black Rolls Royce and his teaching is the very antithesis of that nonsense about the rich man, the camel and the eye of the needle. To Creflo, it’s all about the Benjamins.*

Nan S,

That information is very interesting. I have used the passage about the camel and the rich man with my friend, but the insists that it is the “love of wealth” and not “wealth” that is evil. While this is true, I don’t understand why my friend can’t see that preachers like Creflo are obviously filled with a love of wealth. This is why I find this movement to be so cult-like.