World War III is Prophesized

[Eschato]

CathFaith, was the mystery even released before the prophesied event took place? If it did then I certainly conclude that it may have been written to “mobilize the force of change in the right direction.” If not, then how can you say that it did. I believe that the message was made public in 1999, was it not?

 

[CathFaith1]

CathFaith, was the mystery even released before the prophesied event took place? If it did then I certainly conclude that it may have been written to “mobilize the force of change in the right direction.” If not, then how can you say that it did. I believe that the message was made public in 1999, was it not?

Yes. Sr Lucia and the local bishop claim it was. And I do believe them.

From the book and articles I have read the first two secrets were given to Sr Lucia’s superiors around the late 1930’s. In the 1944 time-frame Sr. Lucia wrote down the third secret for the bishop of Leiria.

To be honest, if things were written well after after WWII and the rise of the Soviet Union I would honestly be suspicious of postdiction, even if it was pious thoughts.

(I’ll try and see which books noted dates)

 

[CathFaith1]

(Re: any references to dates)

One interesting note (I was curious of) why some things where not immediately written by Lucia Santos.

June 13, 1917. translation is: “I want you to come here on the thirteenth day of the coming month, to recite a third of the Rosary every day, and to learn to read. I will tell you later what I want.”

But I did find a linkable reference to date of Lucia’s memoirs, They do seem generally consistent w/ others dates available.

One could not possibly overvalue these documents, which are four in number and were written in 1936,1937, 1941 and 1942

Also found this Father John de Marchi’s notes interesting.

Father John de Marchi, I.M.C,

I have used the Portuguese newspapers of the period, especially the Seculo, the Diario de Noticias, and the Mundo, all at the time important pro-government journals, anticlerical in both policy and tone. They describe the drama of the reported apparitions from a purely secular, non-religious point of view, giving a graphic, if at times a somewhat tongue-in-cheek coloration to those initial pilgrimages to the field called the Cova da Iria, near Fatima, when it was first alleged that the Mother of God had appeared to three peasant children. It is worth noting that the Catholic Press at this time was hardly less sceptical.

A considerable portion of this book is based on the writings of the Portuguese priest, Dr. Manuel Formigao, whose first work on the subject, entitled Os Episodios Maravilhosos de Fatima (The Marvellous Events of Fatima), appeared in 1921. It is a faithful, painstaking account of the good priest’s many interviews with the children, and of the impression they made upon him.

In 1919, when Bishop Jose Alves Correia da Silva took possession of the newly restored diocese of Leiria, embracing, among other mountain villages, the parish of Fatima, he set up without delay a canonical inquiry into the apparitions, and the most important testimony supplied in the succeeding months and years were these:

The interrogations of the three children by their local pastor, Father Manuel Ferreira, after each of the apparitions from June to October, 1917. These interviews had been carefully recorded by Father Ferreira at the time, and provided a most valuable reference. It should perhaps be mentioned that the puzzled pastor, while performing this chore for posterity, believed in the apparitions no more than he believed in Santa Claus.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

From the Catholic Encyclopedia

This thread is a classic example of why I believe the Church does not require us to believe in private revelation. The reason being it can cause division among us. Arguing about whether or not the third secret prophecies WW 3 does nothing to increase our faith.

…but it’s a very good way to lessen charity ​

Thanks for posting that.

 

[goofyjim]

“WHOEVER WISHES TO BE SAVED, MUST ABOVE ALL KEEP THE CATHOLIC FAITH; FOR UNLESS A PERSON KEEPS THIS FAITH WHOLE AND INVIOLATE, HE WILL WITHOUT A DOUBT PERISH IN ETERNITY”---------Creed by St. Athanasius

St. Thomas Aquinas tells us that the faith is all that God has revealed; that is everything God has revealed in both Sacred Scripture and Catholic Tradition. That is the Catholic faith, and to be saved we are bound to believe it.

Private revelations are not part of the Catholic faith. We are in no way bound to believe any private revelation to be saved. We are held to Sacred Scripture and Catholic teaching. Private revelations are often wrong and even approved ones can contain error.

 

[Righteousone]

Private revelations are not part of the Catholic faith. We are in no way bound to believe any private revelation to be saved. We are held to Sacred Scripture and Catholic teaching. Private revelations are often wrong and even approved ones can contain error.

Says you goofyjim, as long as I believe the messages, that’s all that matters…I have tried to show everyone that Fatima was real, that 70-80,000 witnessed this miracle. Even Catholics here surprise me as not wanting to believe…really sad.

 

[goofyjim]

Says you goofyjim, as long as I believe the messages, that’s all that matters…I have tried to show everyone that Fatima was real, that 70-80,000 witnessed this miracle. Even Catholics here surprise me as not wanting to believe…really sad.

I believe what the Church teaches. I will not go to hell for not putting faith in a private revelation. I am only required to believe in public revelation which is now closed. That is the Bible. I also accept the doctrines and dogmas of the Church. Now I can put human faith in any private revelation I choose but I am not required to put Catholic faith in them. Do you know the children at Fatima originally said wecould pray for the people in hell as though they could get out? Even approved apparitions have their errors. Says me and Fr. Groeschel as well. I have much disdain towards your approach in defending your side.

 

[RevDrNorth]

I have not followed this whole thread but since the church has so much respect for Fatima and Pope John Paul the Great credits Our Lady of Fatima with saving his life in the assassination attempt, I give that some weight.

For those interested in Fatima, the World Apostolate of Fatima has much information. They are one of only 11 Public Associations of the Faithful (having recently been raised to that status) and the highest “ranking” Fatima Association. Formerly known as the Blue Army.

wafusa.org/pledge/membership.html

Certainly believing or not will not cause you to gain or lose salvation. It is not a matter of dogma. We all should exercise charity.

 

[puzzleannie]

Really? Then how would we know such disaster…it is what Sister Lucy said it was, is she a liar now?

no, it is what Gruner et al claim that she said.
if you are truly interested (which I beg leave to doubt) in the actual story of Fatima go to the Vatican website, not to a heretic.

 

[rpp]

no, it is what Gruner et al claim that she said.
if you are truly interested (which I beg leave to doubt) in the actual story of Fatima go to the Vatican website, not to a heretic.

 

[MelanieAnne]

For your edification ~ Banned Topics on CAF

#26

Promoting unapproved apparitions and revelations (those not approved by the Church for private or public devotion) or alleged private locutions

 

[MHalsey]

Maybe it isn’t required, but if the church accepts it as being good, maybe one should think about it…makes sense to me. Whatever the church says and does, so do I.

If you follow what the church says and does, then allow others the freedom to believe or not with regard to private revelations.

Incidentally, I have not shared my opinion about the secrets of Fatima because I do not want to argue the point. If believing in them helps someone in their faith, that’s great, but it is definitely not a requirement for salvation.

“WHOEVER WISHES TO BE SAVED, MUST ABOVE ALL KEEP THE CATHOLIC FAITH; FOR UNLESS A PERSON KEEPS THIS FAITH WHOLE AND INVIOLATE, HE WILL WITHOUT A DOUBT PERISH IN ETERNITY”---------Creed by St. Athanasius

St. Thomas Aquinas tells us that the faith is all that God has revealed; that is everything God has revealed in both Sacred Scripture and Catholic Tradition. That is the Catholic faith, and to be saved we are bound to believe it.

You, Righteousone, have insisted on tying private revelation to the Creed of St. Athanasious, implying we are required to believe it for salvation. This is simply not true, and shouting about it is not going to get anyone to agree with you. Private revelation is not a part of Catholic Faith, as Pope Benedict XIV said: “It is not obligatory nor even possible to give them the assent of **Catholic **faith, but only of **human **faith, in conformity with the dictates of prudence, which presents them to us as **probable **and worthy of pius belief.” (emphasis is mine.)

 

[rpp]

If you follow what the church says and does, then allow others the freedom to believe or not with regard to private revelations.

Incidentally, I have not shared my opinion about the secrets of Fatima because I do not want to argue the point. If believing in them helps someone in their faith, that’s great, but it is definitely not a requirement for salvation.

You, Righteousone, have insisted on tying private revelation to the Creed of St. Athanasious, implying we are required to believe it for salvation. This is simply not true, and shouting about it is not going to get anyone to agree with you. Private revelation is not a part of Catholic Faith, as Pope Benedict XIV said: “It is not obligatory nor even possible to give them the assent of **Catholic **faith, but only of **human **faith, in conformity with the dictates of prudence, which presents them to us as **probable **and worthy of pius belief.” (emphasis is mine.)

Nicely put.

I would add that I have not seen anyone on this thread claim or even imply that the Fatima visions did not occur. Nor have I seen anyone say or imply that they did not believe them.

But I have seen a number of accusations to that effect.

 

[paarsurrey]

We know from the third secret of Fatima, we know from the many apparitions of Our Lady, it is revealed that there will be a Third World War. It will be a war that will break out from East to West, all of a sudden.
There will be a massive invasion of Europe by Muslim, and there will be massive acts of terrorism by Muslim in Europe and in North America, and in Asia,wherever Muslim are found. It will be coordinated worldwide, Jihad. And they all, with boldness, will attack what they call the mushriks, to kill as many of them as they can.

Hi

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim.

Is it a result of some sort of Islamphobia?
Kindly quote from Fatima.
Who told Fatima?

Thanks

 

[Righteousone]

no, it is what Gruner et al claim that she said.
if you are truly interested (which I beg leave to doubt) in the actual story of Fatima go to the Vatican website, not to a heretic.

Father Gruner is not a heretic, Martin Luther was…, nor is Fr. Gruner suspended. It is true that certain members of the Vatican bureaucracy opposed to Father Gruner’s work have pressured the Bishop of Avellino to order him back to Avellino, under THREAT of suspension------after an approved absence of 20 years! But Fr. Gruner has appealed that plainly unjust order, and during the appeal (which is still pending), NO THREATENED SUSPENSION CAN TAKE EFFECT UNDER THE CODE OF CANON LAW. Thus, Fr. Gruner remains a priest in good standing. Do your homework.

 

[HollyDolly]

I recall my dad one time saying that if World War 3 starts,it will begin in the Middle East. Having spent 33 years in the military
working in intelligence and having a great deal of knowledge about history and current events, i’m sure he was quite correct.
If things progress the way they are,with isreal and the Palenstinians,etc.It’s just a matter of time.

 

[Eschato]

Yes. Sr Lucia and the local bishop claim it was. And I do believe them.

From the book and articles I have read the first two secrets were given to Sr Lucia’s superiors around the late 1930’s. In the 1944 time-frame Sr. Lucia wrote down the third secret for the bishop of Leiria.

To be honest, if things were written well after after WWII and the rise of the Soviet Union I would honestly be suspicious of postdiction, even if it was pious thoughts.

(I’ll try and see which books noted dates)

Ok. Cause the third secret was in a box well before 1960. That is when Sr. Lucia said that it could be examined. I did here something about Sr. Lucia sending the Pope (then Pope, I don’t remember which one…) a letter about the “sign” or “light” in the sky the preceded WWII. I knew that it had been written, I just didn’t know that anyone had read it.

 

[Eschato]

For your edification ~ Banned Topics on CAF

#26

I’m not aware of anyone promoting any unapproved apparitions on this thread. Though, about two years ago, I mentioned an unapproved apparition to a Russian Orthodox. It was around the time of my conversion and I wanted to know of the Orthodox thought on apparitions. I thought that the moderator was going to have me hung…

 

[MelanieAnne]

I’m not aware of anyone promoting any unapproved apparitions on this thread. Though, about two years ago, I mentioned an unapproved apparition to a Russian Orthodox. It was around the time of my conversion and I wanted to know of the Orthodox thought on apparitions. I thought that the moderator was going to have me hung…

I was thinking more along the lines of “private revelation”. But it may be a misunderstanding on my part.

 

[rpp]

Father Gruner is not a heretic, Martin Luther was…, nor is Fr. Gruner suspended. It is true that certain members of the Vatican bureaucracy opposed to Father Gruner’s work have pressured the Bishop of Avellino to order him back to Avellino, under THREAT of suspension------after an approved absence of 20 years! But Fr. Gruner has appealed that plainly unjust order, and during the appeal (which is still pending), NO THREATENED SUSPENSION CAN TAKE EFFECT UNDER THE CODE OF CANON LAW. Thus, Fr. Gruner remains a priest in good standing. Do your homework.

Oh brother. At least there is one correct statement here, Martin Luther was a heretic. Righteousone, you are way off here. He is suspended. There are no appeals left. There are no appeals in process. You are being misinformed. That you appear to be under the spell of this disobedient priest makes me very sad. It is leading yo to separate yourself from Holy Mother Church, and that is a terrible tragedy.

Where is the humility in anything you wrote in this post? Where is the humility in the suspended Father Gruner’s actions? Where is his obedience to authority. (He took a vow to be obedient.) Simply put, they are not extant.