World Youth Day: Catholicism or Corruption?

[ericcantona71]

The posts that followed clearly made my point.

“Look, Look, Look at this what do you think?”

Um, is that a rhetorical question?

Nobody here wants to talk about traditional Catholicism without turning it into a bash the V2 Church session.

With respect where has anyone on this thread bashed Vatican II?

In essence you seem to be doing the very thing you are accusing others of doing.

 

[ethelzguy]

With respect where has anyone on this thread bashed Vatican II?

In essence you seem to be doing the very thing you are accusing others of doing.

*A good video on the reverence sadly shown by Catholic’s today during the liturgy *

Give it another page or two, soon enough it will get there.

 

[piouswoman]

Yes, but WYD is not about adulating youth, it’s meant to be an investment in the future Church.

Indirectly, it is. Why must so much importance be placed on “youth”?. If the church taught the faith in its tradition, youth wouldn’t need debacles such as WYD. It is nothing more than modern thinking, it is worldly and inappropriate, worldly culture is intermingled with our faith…and that is just wrong in my opinion. Again, there is that adulation of youth, putting them in a separate category than everyone else and appealing to the worst traits of their nature rather than instilling piety and a sense of the sacred. There should be no WYD, there should be a call to the return to our traditional Catholic faith and to *all *members of the Church Militant.

 

[Lepanto]

I’m afraid there are going to be many similarly disturbing videos and photos come out of Australia in a few months.

Get ready.

Juventutem is a saner alternative:

juventutemusa.org/

 

[ericcantona71]

*A good video on the reverence sadly shown by Catholic’s today during the liturgy *

Give it another page or two, soon enough it will get there.

Judging by your posts which I have looked at on your profile, you seem to love to bait other Catholics by making short quick somewhat provocative and accusing comments on threads where people express their concerns regarding the liturgy and stir up trouble without contributing anything particularly constructive or of substance to any thread. If you don’t share people’s concerns, disagree, but please do so in a charitable manner.

I have tried to be polite to you, but you have been nothing but sarcastic to me and others on this thread.

 

[ericcantona71]

I’m afraid there are going to be many similarly disturbing videos and photos come out of Australia in a few months.

Get ready.

Juventutem is a saner alternative:

juventutemusa.org/

I have been on Juventutem it was excellent, my only concern was the organizers didn’t take the group to the Papal Mass and left early, which kinda of defeated the object of the trip in a certain sense.

Lets hope that things are better at Australia, but it will take awhile for Pope Benedict’s liturgical reforms to filter through.

 

[ethelzguy]

If you don’t share people’s concerns, disagree, but please do so in a charitable manner.

Actually, I try to keep my posts light-hearted, as defense against becoming very irate over the silly, nonsensical rants against my Church that I read here.

There is a distinct difference between “expressing concerns” and outright bashing of my priests, family, and fellow parishoners who spend their lives devoted to the Church.

This thread is just like so many others. World Youth Day isn’t a traditional issue, it is a current event, perhaps more suited for the “In The News” or “Catholic Living” forum. Yet, as posted in the “Traditional Catholicism” forum, it’s clearly yet another “take something in the Church today, and bash it to bits” thread.

Hardly charitable. Our Church traditions have much to offer today’s Catholic youth. Yet, rather than sharing it in a loving way, it gets used here as a sledge hammer to denigrate today’s Church.

I am an “old geezer” as my grandchildren playfully put it. I have fond, real-life memories of my Church over the past 70 years. I fail to see what is gained by the constant criticisms leveled here against my Church.

So, yes, I will continue to defend my Church and my Faith against the perpetual attacks against it from those within it.

TBL

 

[Phemie]

The posts that followed clearly made my point.

“Look, Look, Look at this what do you think?”

Um, is that a rhetorical question?

Nobody here wants to talk about traditional Catholicism without turning it into a bash the V2 Church session.

My response had nothing to do with Vat. II. It had everything to do with the way we treat today’s youth as though they are a new species that has only recently been discovered and needs to be treated differently from the generations that came before.

 

[Lepanto]

So, yes, I will continue to defend my Church and my Faith against the perpetual attacks against it from those within it.

TBL

Nobody is attacking the Church. They are attacking what was shown in the video, and therefore by extension those who attack the video are defending the Church.

 

[ethelzguy]

My response had nothing to do with Vat. II. It had everything to do with the way we treat today’s youth as though they are a new species that has only recently been discovered and needs to be treated differently from the generations that came before.

They DO need to be treated differently than the generations that came before. Like it or not, the world has changed dramatically in the last 50 years.

We can either accept that, and deal with it, and try to keep our youth “hooked up” with their faith, or refuse to change and lose them.

Look at Dairy Queen -vs- Sonic. Sonic has changed dramatically over the last decade, while Dairy Queen has stood pat. Sonics are popping up everywhere, at least in this part of the country, while DQs continue to close.

Sitting kids in a classroom and beating the Baltimore Catechism in their head won’t work anymore. Even JPII could see that. Look at how the youth was attracted to him. He called them to Christ and the Church in a way that they understood. And they responded.

We can’t go back. We can only go forward. How we go forward will determine what becomes of the Catholic Faith in the century to come.

I love the old school Church, and still do. But I also realize that just because it worked in my generation, doesn’t mean it will today.

 

[ethelzguy]

My response had nothing to do with Vat. II. It had everything to do with the way we treat today’s youth as though they are a new species that has only recently been discovered and needs to be treated differently from the generations that came before.

They DO need to be treated differently than the generations that came before. Like it or not, the world has changed dramatically in the last 50 years.

We can either accept that, and deal with it, and try to keep our youth “hooked up” with their faith, or refuse to change and lose them.

Look at Dairy Queen -vs- Sonic. Sonic has changed dramatically over the last decade, while Dairy Queen has stood pat. Sonics are popping up everywhere, at least in this part of the country, while DQs continue to close.

Sitting kids in a classroom and beating the Baltimore Catechism in their head won’t work anymore. Even JPII could see that. Look at how the youth was attracted to him. He called them to Christ and the Church in a way that they understood. And they responded.

We can’t go back. We can only go forward. How we go forward will determine what becomes of the Catholic Faith in the century to come.

I love the old school Church, and still do. But I also realize that just because it worked in my generation, doesn’t mean it will today.

 

[ericcantona71]

Ethelzguy regarding your post no:27 , not only do I feel your comments are a strawman, but you are also reading hell of a lot into what people have written here. I could respond to your points one by one, but it will kinda of take things of topic and also I don’t want to turn this into a slanging match.

Just be charitable.

Best wishes.

Eric

 

[Margarite]

I went to the last WYD and WOW! It was amazing! I am a faithful Catholic who hasn’t felt the urge to rebel and I was 16 at the time and am now almost 19. I know allot about my faith, I know more than 90% of the kids my age, but I still have so much to learn. Anyways, WYD really strengthened my faith. I was so shocked and amazed when I saw millions of kids around my age or a little older all walking together and singing. Each group held a flag from their country, and they were all singing songs from their countries. There was almost always a priest with each group, and sometimes there were some nuns. There were so many priests in cassocks and nuns in full habits. The kids were all wearing jeans because that is the most practical thing to wear when traveling. They slept out on the field and that was also amazing. If you just stood up and looked around at the hundreds of thousands of sleeping bags of people who had sacrificed thousands of dollars and a few weeks of their summer to come to a field in Germany to hear the Pope speak, and to be with other Catholics.
It was inspiring to me to realize that I wasn’t the only teen who cared about my faith, there were millions more who also cared. It was amazing. They had a tent where priests would go and they would put up a sign that had all the languages they spoke, and you just had to find one that spoke your language and you could go to confession. My sister went to a French priest and he said that her confession was the first English confession he had ever heard. I went to a German priest. Both were amazing and gave such wonderful advise.
I had a friend with me and she goes to the FSSP mass, she refused to go to confession, she refused to be inspired by the amazing sight of so many Catholics her age. She was so stubborn, she wouldn’t even go to confession. She lost so many graces because of her bigotry It was truly sad.

The reason they have all the kids sleep on outside is because it is the only practical thing to do. Cologne was an hours train ride, plus an hours walk away. And if everyone was trying to get there at the same time, it could have taken half the day just to get to the field. So the only practical thing to do was to have everyone sleep out. They didn’t allow tents, and everyone had to sleep in their own sleeping bag. If they staid up half the night, well, they were only there for a week what is so wrong with staying up half the night?

While, I don’t like the music, especially, 99% of teens do. If they can be taught through that that every part of their lives, even the fun parts, can be focussed towards God, well, our future has a much better hope.

It isn’t worship of teens, but rather teaching teens to worship speaking their language at first to get them started.

It doesn’t matter if half the kids were there just to have fun, the other half was there to learn, and the half that just wants to have fun, well, they are having fun in a clean way, and they may just learn something.

As far as talking in the Church, where else could they do it, where else could the Church get so many empty buildings? The presence of Our Lord will keep them focused on discussing God and the Church.

I can’t remember any more of the video. I couldn’t listen to it because I am at work, but from what I saw, this is what I thought.

WORLD YOUTH DAY IS WONDER FULL!

 

[ethelzguy]

Let’s see here…

You take a “current event”…
World Youth Day

String it up like a pinata on a tree limb…
By placing it in the Traditional Forum

Incite a crowd…
“Catholicism or Corruption”

Then invite the crowd to flail away…
*A good video on the reverence sadly shown by Catholic’s today *

Then tell ME that I’m the one who needs to demonstrate charity…
If you don’t share people’s concerns, disagree, but please do so in a charitable manner.

Fascinating :ehh: :ehh: :ehh:

 

[saint_rafael]

Sitting kids in a classroom and beating the Baltimore Catechism in their head won’t work anymore. Even JPII could see that. Look at how the youth was attracted to him. He called them to Christ and the Church in a way that they understood. And they responded.

We can’t go back. We can only go forward. How we go forward will determine what becomes of the Catholic Faith in the century to come.

I love the old school Church, and still do. But I also realize that just because it worked in my generation, doesn’t mean it will today.

That is what is wrong with the Church Today. What worked for your generation has worked for 2,000 years. The faith is eternal and never changes. How is it possible to have a different faith in this century?
I teach the Baltimore Catechism is my parish and the teenagers are finally starting to learn about their faith. They have never been taught it. They are grateful to be learning basic Church teaching. Teenagers want to truth and the traditional faith taught to them They are not interested in phoniness and bringing everything to their distorted level.

Pope John Paul II failed miserably in trying to bring the youth closer to the faith. He thought he could get them by being a rock star. Most teeangers who were screaming “JP I love you” were attracted to the man and not the message. Teenagers loved the Pope, but did not listen to anyhing he said or read anything he wrote. They were not interested in following Church doctrine.
**
The problem is the culture. Only when we take back our kids from the demonic television, music, movies, games, and friends will we succeed in getting them to follow the faith.**The “teenager” is a 20th century invention. It has no historical basis. **Only when peers started replacing parents as role models, did we get this rebellion against authority in the 20th century.**We now have delayed maturity and adolescence being stretched out for people in their 20’s. We need help them mature faster like earlier generations starting at childhood.

 

[VietCatholic83]

I’m afraid there are going to be many similarly disturbing videos and photos come out of Australia in a few months.

Get ready.

Juventutem is a saner alternative:

juventutemusa.org/

Not from this pilgrim, you won’t! And you’d better be sure that if I see any of my peers behaving in an irreverent manner I’m gonna say something…say it with gentleness and charity.

Also people, give the youth some credit! not everyone is a rock-n-roll-loving, Jesus-rap-following miscreant. I personally know of many orthodox, reverent Catholic young people today. It’s not all doom and gloom for the Church as so many of you are so inclined to believe.

Christus Exinanivit Semetipsum

 

[ethelzguy]

Pope John Paul II failed miserably in trying to bring the youth closer to the faith. He thought he could get them by being a rock star. Most teeangers who were screaming “JP I love you” were attracted to the man and not the message. Teenagers loved the Pope, but did not listen to anyhing he said or read anything he wrote. They were not interested in following Church doctrine.

That’s a pretty strong statement against a Pope who is on the path to canonization, no?

 

[tiggeriffic]

I teach the Baltimore Catechism is my parish…

As Coordinator of Formation for my parish, I would ask you to refrain from using outdated material or stop teaching. There are plenty of materials that effectively communicate our faith to young people, including the current Catechism.

I do not agree with separating young people from the rest of the body of the church (as often happens with Life Teen). However, young people are certainly at a different stage in their faith journey than a 30 year old. A 30 year old is certainly at a different stage of their faith journey than an 80 year old. So there HAS to be varied ways to reach people and assist them on that journey. My parish has Small Christian Communities for moms, older adults, youth, etc.

I have never had the priviledge of going to World Youth Day, but from the video it resembled many Youth Conventions I have attended or taken youth to. The video failed to show you the amazing times of silence that most likely accurred with the young people in prayer. I experienced that deafening silence in a stadium of 25,000 young people at the National Catholic Youth Conference in Atlanta. It was amazing and brought me to tears. I also had one of those kids that just went “to go on a trip” and came home totally transformed from the experience. He is an amazing young man and still volunteers with us.

Please do not judge an event like World Youth Day based on short biased clips intended to prove someones point. Be thankful we have thousands of young men and women world wide that are embracing their faith. Another poster mentioned (and forgive me for paraphrasing, but I think I get the jist of it) that its not necessarily the time at WYD or the Youth Convention - but its the seeds that such events plant. Its years later when you look back on that experience and have a feeling of comfort and confidence in your faith. The same way I look back on marching through the streets of Philly at my first National Catholic Youth Conference in November of 1992 chanting “We love Jesus, yes we do ~ we love Jesus, how 'bout YOU!”. What an amazing experience - and I think it was that experience that helped me realize my vocation to be a youth minister and in that an advocate for young Catholics.

Why cant we just be be happy that there are young people on fire and excited about their faith. We dont know from any video what doctrine or prayers or teachings they do or dont know. Every youth convention I have ever been to includes a dance - there is nothing wrong with they way they were dancing. Such conventions are not 24/7 Rosaries and Eucharistic Adoration. Even the USCCB says in Renewing the Vision (the USCCB document on Youth Ministry) that one of the 8 major components of Youth Ministry is Community Life. So it is fitting that a convention would include such activities.

Before continuing to bash Youth and Youth Ministry in the church, I would suggest getting a copy of Renewing the Vision from the USCCB and reading up on just what the Bishops are calling for with young people.

Peace.

 

[saint_rafael]

That’s a pretty strong statement against a Pope who is on the path to canonization, no?

The Church needs to settle down and let some time pass before they do anything with Pope John Paul II. He should not be canonized and become a saint.

His pontificate was a failure. He did not govern the Church properly. He did not disipline anyone, appointed horrible bishops and even made some heretics, Cardinal. The Church further decayed and crumbled under his watch.

His personal holiness and piety are worthy of sainthood, but that is not enough to save him because he was Pope and his pontificate must be part of the consideration for sainthood.
Unfortunately, his poor performance as governing Pontiff disqualifies him as saint.

Pope John Paul II had a strategy of playing geopolitics and using his charisma to bring the faith to the world, but it was a gamble that did not work.

 

[ericcantona71]

Let’s see here…

You take a “current event”…
World Youth Day

String it up like a pinata on a tree limb…
By placing it in the Traditional Forum

Incite a crowd…
“Catholicism or Corruption”

Then invite the crowd to flail away…
*A good video on the reverence sadly shown by Catholic’s today *

Then tell ME that I’m the one who needs to demonstrate charity…
If you don’t share people’s concerns, disagree, but please do so in a charitable manner.

Fascinating :ehh: :ehh: :ehh:

Wow you have super powers to read my intentions too.

This forum is a place to discuss things, the title of the thread, was the title of the author’s video on You Tube.

Of course I put it on CAF to generate comments thats the whole point of a forum to discuss things. I don’t care if people disagree with its sentiments. But its a shame you can’t enter into such discussion with a charitable attitude. If you disagree with the video’s content point it out, instead you seem to come on this thread, to have a go at people who think differently to you.

From now on I will ignore your uncharitable comments, I find your behavior astonishing.