World Youth Day: Catholicism or Corruption?

[saint_rafael]

As Coordinator of Formation for my parish, I would ask you to refrain from using outdated material or stop teaching. There are plenty of materials that effectively communicate our faith to young people, including the current Catechism.

That is pure heresy.

Every line from the Baltimore Catechism comes from a council, Pope, saint, and doctor of the Church. The Baltimore Catechism teaches the infallible doctrine of the Church. How can the doctrines of the Church be outdated? They are infallible and eternal. Truth does not change.

The Current Catechism is good but it is in paragraph form that is in depth and too wordy for teenagers. It is for those with mature faith and with a deeper understanding.

The Baltimore Catechism is direct Q&A, solid, and very effective. It has the basics of our faith. Most Catholic teeangers don’t even know the basics. I had to teach them the ten commandments, and the creed. The Baltimore Catechism has taught them more about their faith than what they would get in so called Catholic education.

 

[SenorSalsa]

The “teenager” is a 20th century invention. It has no historical basis. **Only when peers started replacing parents as role models, did we get this rebellion against authority in the 20th century.**We now have delayed maturity and adolescence being stretched out for people in their 20’s. We need help them mature faster like earlier generations starting at childhood.

Well, as a teenager, im gonna have to blame you(presuming you are older, as it sounds as if you are an adult. I sit at a grocery store and watch parents give in to their children with no second thought. Even when I was a kid, if i asked for candy, and was told no, if i asked again, i was asking for my doom. Now kids just have to ask 5 or 6 times and its thiers. Blame the adults who allow thier kids to chill at the house without a job till they are are into their 20s, still paying them an allowance for nothing.

The video failed to show you the amazing times of silence that most likely accurred with the young people in prayer. I experienced that deafening silence in a stadium of 25,000 young people at the National Catholic Youth Conference in Atlanta. It was amazing and brought me to tears.

I have to agree with this. Going to youth functions, the Masses at them are 300 times quiter than any Mass i have ever been to in a normal Church. Just becuase they are having fun listening to some music doesnt mean they dont know how to become perfectly revrent. But given 5 days of anything, im sure i could come up with 5 scattered minutes that make it look like Satan has taken over the Church

The Current Catechism is good but it is in paragraph form that is in depth and too wordy for teenagers. It is for those with mature faith and with a deeper understanding.

arent you arguing that WYD is bad becuase it isnt a focused reverent exercise. But now you openly state that teenagers have a short attention span(we do). Why do you think the concerts and “milling around” were added next to the Papal speeches and Catechetics lessons? I didnt see much of those parts in the 5 minute video. Maybe becuase they were reverent

 

[SenorSalsa]

The Church needs to settle down and let some time pass before they do anything with Pope John Paul II. He should not be canonized and become a saint.

His pontificate was a failure. He did not govern the Church properly. He did not disipline anyone, appointed horrible bishops and even made some heretics, Cardinal. The Church further decayed and crumbled under his watch.

His personal holiness and piety are worthy of sainthood, but that is not enough to save him because he was Pope and his pontificate must be part of the consideration for sainthood.
Unfortunately, his poor performance as governing Pontiff disqualifies him as saint.

Pope John Paul II had a strategy of playing geopolitics and using his charisma to bring the faith to the world, but it was a gamble that did not work.

Wow. I would like you to give me the name of one heretic he appointed Cardinal, and what exactly this Cardinal has done or said to incur such a claim. Believe it or not, Sainthood isnt determined by job performance, but on Holiness, which you yourself admitted he had plenty of. Being a poor Pope(your claim, not mine), while being bad, is not sinful, and due to the guidance of the Holy Spirit, it is impossible for him to lead the Church astray. His geopolitics definately helped bring the faith to Soviet Russia. I have seen many articles about how his globetrotting has resulted in fuller than normal Seminaries.

Slander is not becoming of one trying to prove a point.

 

[saint_rafael]

Wow. I would like you to give me the name of one heretic he appointed Cardinal, and what exactly this Cardinal has done or said to incur such a claim. Believe it or not, Sainthood isnt determined by job performance, but on Holiness, which you yourself admitted he had plenty of. Being a poor Pope(your claim, not mine), while being bad, is not sinful, and due to the guidance of the Holy Spirit, it is impossible for him to lead the Church astray. His geopolitics definately helped bring the faith to Soviet Russia. I have seen many articles about how his globetrotting has resulted in fuller than normal Seminaries.

Slander is not becoming of one trying to prove a point.

It is not slander. The record speaks for itself. Holiness is not the only requirement. You have to be orthodox and teach and believe what the Church has always taught.

Cardinal Kasper is just one example of a heretic. He is the prefect of the Congregation for Christian Unity. This man is one of the most notorious heretics and apostates in the Church. He doesn’t believe in anything. He doesn’t believe in converting anyone.

A Pope can lead the Church astray because he is a man and can use his free will for good or evil. He can fall into error. A Pope is only protected by the Holy Spirit and is infallible when he speaks Ex-Cathedra or from the Chair of Peter.
I suggest you sudy this for the Church’s teaching on infallibility and the Magisterium:
scroll down to Authority:
fisheaters.com/101.html

Russia has become a country of moral decadence with pornography, abortion, atheism, etc. widespread. There is no faith with the Orthodox Church corrupted and struggling to keep Christianity there. You also have the dictator Putin bringing back the old guard.

 

[tiggeriffic]

That is pure heresy.

Please excuse the way I worded that. I did not intend to imply that the information in the Baltimore Catechism was outdated. Only that the style and approach was outdated.

I do not think you are giving youth enough credit to be able to take a teaching from the current Catechism and discuss it and understand it. The youth that I work with and have worked with over the last 12 years have a lot to offer and a lot of good questions. There are plenty of available resources that are very good for teenagers.

 

[Margarite]

Both of you are ridiculous! The Baltimore Catechism is a fantastic teaching tool it is simple and easy to understand and it explains everything. And Pope John Paul II was a great man! He did so much for the Church, God picked him to be pope, so I wouldn’t criticize God’s choice too much. Some of the things he did you may disagree with, but to call him a failure and whatever else, that is just ridiculous! He started WYD, and as I stated before, and as others stated before, just because some of the kids my misbehave, that doesn’t mean that all couple million of those kids are misbehaving, and aren’t getting it.

You say that “Most teeangers who were screaming “JP I love you” were attracted to the man and not the message. Teenagers loved the Pope, but did not listen to anyhing he said or read anything he wrote. They were not interested in following Church doctrine.” How can you say this, you cannot read these kid’s minds, you cannot understand what they are thinking when they say that they love their pope! You know, most people are led into a deeper understanding of the faith, through a single person who they were impressed by. Well, I have heard countless “reconversion” stories of kids who grew up Catholic, fell away, went to WYD, and then because of WYD they became zealots for the faith. I have not heard of one person who went to WYD and left the faith because of it. Now I think that WYD is worth it just because of those few people who came back because of it.

I mean just think of it,
A week when Catholic Youth from all over the world go to one place and listen to the pope, and talk with each other about their faith, and witness to the world that they are CATHOLIC! WOW! That is sooooooooooooooooooooo cool! I am one of those weird teens who never rebelled, but most of the kids I know my age, get next to nothing from the liberal youth group leaders, and worse than nothing at the one “Catholic” high school in Las Vegas (the school known even in public schools as the school with the most drugs and other stuff). Now if these kids go to WYD and see this old pope who is out there with them, and they see hundreds of priests and nuns, and many of them get up and dance with the kids and enjoy their time and help these kids during the catechism lessons and show the kids that being a religious does not mean beating yourself, but rather enjoying life to the fullest through Our Lord. Tell me how this is bad.
Now you are going to point to the few who misbehave, or who are bad, but amongst every group, there will be a few bad apples. I am pointing to the many and you to the few, who seems more right?

 

[ethelzguy]

Both of you are ridiculous! The Baltimore Catechism is a fantastic teaching tool it is simple and easy to understand and it explains everything.

This, by another individual (JReducation) on another thread, but it seems to apply here…

***The Church has officially stated that the Catechsm of the Catholic Church is to serve as the model for all catechisms.

If there is something in the Baltimore Catechism that is not as clear as the Catechism of the Catholic Church or is different, then I go with the Catechism of the Catholic Church, since this is the Catechism that the Holy See holds as the model that all catechisms should follow.

Much of what the Baltimore catechism is contained in the CCC, some of it was reworked, and some was left out.

If we are to be faithful to the Church and believe that she is always right in matters of faith and morals, unless she corrects herself, then we have no other choice but to believe the wording of the CCC over the Baltimore Catechism, as this is the catechism that the Church holds up to us as the model that we must use and apply.***

 

[ethelzguy]

Pope John Paul II failed miserably in trying to bring the youth closer to the faith. He thought he could get them by being a rock star.

The Pope as a rock star? I’ll bet that one never makes Letterman’s “Top Ten” list.

 

[MarieO2]

A good video on the reverence sadly shown by Catholic’s today during the liturgy and during the sacred:

uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NPNomC8ON08

That ole guy has been sucking too many dill pickles. Sheese! WYD is quite wonderful and ole stoggie can just take his opinion and sleep on it.

 

[Margarite]

This, by another individual (JReducation) on another thread, but it seems to apply here…

***The Church has officially stated that the Catechsm of the Catholic Church is to serve as the model for all catechisms.

If there is something in the Baltimore Catechism that is not as clear as the Catechism of the Catholic Church or is different, then I go with the Catechism of the Catholic Church, since this is the Catechism that the Holy See holds as the model that all catechisms should follow.

Much of what the Baltimore catechism is contained in the CCC, some of it was reworked, and some was left out.

If we are to be faithful to the Church and believe that she is always right in matters of faith and morals, unless she corrects herself, then we have no other choice but to believe the wording of the CCC over the Baltimore Catechism, as this is the catechism that the Church holds up to us as the model that we must use and apply.***

And your point is?

The BC is still one of the best teaching tools because it is much more simple than the CCC. If I had a choice between looking something up in the CCC or the BC, I would first look in the BC because if it was in there, I know that I would understand the answer without having to look up a whole bunch of the phrases used, and I would get a quick simple answer that I could commit to memory and use whenever I needed it. The CCC is more official, but every explanation is so long, I couldn’t memorized those, and I might have to look up parts of it to understand it better.

In other words, it is easier, and thus more likely, to look something up in the BC than the CCC.

 

[Lepanto]

And your point is?

The BC is still one of the best teaching tools because it is much more simple than the CCC. If I had a choice between looking something up in the CCC or the BC, I would first look in the BC because if it was in there, I know that I would understand the answer without having to look up a whole bunch of the phrases used, and I would get a quick simple answer that I could commit to memory and use whenever I needed it. The CCC is more official, but every explanation is so long, I couldn’t memorized those, and I might have to look up parts of it to understand it better.

In other words, it is easier, and thus more likely, to look something up in the BC than the CCC.

I wish my teachers had used the BC when I was a youth.

If so I may have learned something more than “Jesus is my friend.”

 

[SenorSalsa]

And your point is?

The BC is still one of the best teaching tools because it is much more simple than the CCC. If I had a choice between looking something up in the CCC or the BC, I would first look in the BC because if it was in there, I know that I would understand the answer without having to look up a whole bunch of the phrases used, and I would get a quick simple answer that I could commit to memory and use whenever I needed it. The CCC is more official, but every explanation is so long, I couldn’t memorized those, and I might have to look up parts of it to understand it better.

In other words, it is easier, and thus more likely, to look something up in the BC than the CCC.

So basically what youre saying is you would rather get the quick easy answer, instead of the full answer, so that when a question comes up, you can not only give the answer, but also explain it?

I could look up that Mary is indeed the Mother of God.

or, i could look up how the Church came to the understanding of Mary as Mother of God, and probably get some bible verses to defend the viewpoint.

Ill give you a hint, choice B works better when in a debate with Protestants

 

[Margarite]

I wish my teachers had used the BC when I was a youth.

If so I may have learned something more than “Jesus is my friend.”

Or, “It doesn’t matter what you do, God loves you”. Or “What is right for you may be wrong for me, and what is wrong for you may be right for me ssssso don’t juuuudgggge.”:hypno: Or like at my younger siblings school where they had all the kids “Jump for Jesus” at the consecration. :nope: It is really sad.:crying:

 

[Lepanto]

So basically what youre saying is you would rather get the quick easy answer, instead of the full answer, so that when a question comes up, you can not only give the answer, but also explain it?

I could look up that Mary is indeed the Mother of God.

or, i could look up how the Church came to the understanding of Mary as Mother of God, and probably get some bible verses to defend the viewpoint.

Ill give you a hint, choice B works better when in a debate with Protestants

There is room for both catechisms. Now, obviously the universal catechism is the only official one, but the BC is better for younger people (which was its intended audience after all). It’s silly to compare them. They are complementary.

I’ll also add that the Vatican must think very highly of the pedagogical method used by the BC, because several years ago they came out with the Compendium to the Catechism, which in many ways mimics the teaching style of the BC. They did this because the full catechism may be too much for learners. Look here:

amazon.com/Compendium-Catechism-Catholic-Church-Ratzinger/dp/1574557203

Plain and simple, the Q and A format WORKS for learners.

 

[Margarite]

So basically what youre saying is you would rather get the quick easy answer, instead of the full answer, so that when a question comes up, you can not only give the answer, but also explain it?

I could look up that Mary is indeed the Mother of God.

or, i could look up how the Church came to the understanding of Mary as Mother of God, and probably get some bible verses to defend the viewpoint.

Ill give you a hint, choice B works better when in a debate with Protestants

Well, first you start with the BC and learn that Mary is indeed the Mother of God, then when you have more time, and the inclination to learn, you sit down and ask why and read the CCC. But when you are teaching children and teens, they don’t want to sit and listen to a sermon and a bunch of phrases they don’t quite get. They want the basics. They want 1+2=3, they don’t want algebra. Then once they know the basic facts, then you can re-visit them and dive deeper. That is what they do in school. Basically from kindergarten to 12th grade your just relearning the same things over and over and going more in depth each year. Well, the BC complements the CCC in this way.

 

[ethelzguy]

And your point is?

My point is, simply that while the BC may be good, it is NOT the “official” Church document in current use.

Beyond official Church documents, everything else is opinion…in my opinion

 

[SenorSalsa]

Well, first you start with the BC and learn that Mary is indeed the Mother of God, then when you have more time, and the inclination to learn, you sit down and ask why and read the CCC. But when you are teaching children and teens, they don’t want to sit and listen to a sermon and a bunch of phrases they don’t quite get. They want the basics. They want 1+2=3, they don’t want algebra. Then once they know the basic facts, then you can re-visit them and dive deeper. That is what they do in school. Basically from kindergarten to 12th grade your just relearning the same things over and over and going more in depth each year. Well, the BC complements the CCC in this way.

im sorry i must be some freak of nature teenager who actually has an attention span at religous ed classes, so that when my teachers say something, i want reasons.

I go one night a week for an hour, from august to may, and this year the entire theme was Last Things. Heaven, Hell, Judgement. We went into a whole lot of depth, including almost a whole month on Satan. And yet most of my class agreed that it was one of the most interesting years, and most educational, they have had in religious ed.

 

[hasikelee]

This is one video specifically created to strengthen an argument.

We are all adults here, surely we are aware of how easily documentation can be manipulated?

One could have easily documented only very traditional activities at WYD and made an opposing argument.

To the OP: where were you during WYD Canada?

I say shame on the creator of that video for attempting to cast a negative light on WYD and Catholicism in general.

 

[Pauseafter4ever]

at 2:47 in the video the music playing is described as rock music.
I think it’s christian reggae style music…

 

[MarieO2]

This is one video specifically created to strengthen an argument.

We are all adults here, surely we are aware of how easily documentation can be manipulated?

One could have easily documented only very traditional activities at WYD and made an opposing argument.

To the OP: where were you during WYD Canada?

I say shame on the creator of that video for attempting to cast a negative light on WYD and Catholicism in general.

I’ll second that motion. Just another ner do well trying to dis Holy Father.