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Dauphin
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That’s the problem. Catholic spirituality has been so effectively eradicated for the last 40 years that few people take note of its absence anymore.
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Freshman88
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I said no such thing.
Now if you’d try and read my post, perhaps you’d learn something.
Our culture is dangerous, it leads to many souls to the problems I have seen. It is dangerous for us to stoop to this culture, it is whollly sick and rotten to the core. Youth ministry tries to use that culture, it would be best to avoid.
Hell, I even said that it is totally unfair to suggest that my friends problems has anything to do with youth ministry… but you read right past that.
Get with the times.
yeah… try and read my post next time. I take full responsibility for everything in my life.
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palmas85
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If this video didn’t open your eyes to just how far over the edge some groups have gone then I don’t think anything will.Another “bait and bash” thread?
The theological themed mosh pit, body surfing camp out line dances and overnight communal co-ed sleepover, may all be great things and maybe even have some valid purpose other than pure sensation, but I really doubt it.
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Dauphin
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No concessions to the spirit of this world!
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SenorSalsa
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I cant speak for that night, but I can tell you that when I have gone over night with my youth group, we have slept in hotels, houses and on buses. In the hotel, it was guys on one end of the hall, girls on the other, one chaparone in the hall at all times, doors taped. In the house, its guys in the basement, girls ground floor and loft, male chaperones in the basement, female ones above. On the bus, when it got to about 10 oclock, the boys were moved all the way to the back, the girls towards the front, so that there were a few rows of seats between us, and chaperone in one of those. Just becuase there are tight quarters doesnt mean seperation of male and female isnt possible. That isnt a fault of the event, but of the chaperones
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palmas85
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This was not an overnight with the youth group. It was an affair that lasted several days.
And in the camping out segment, where were the lines drawn? How about in the mosh pit and the body surfing areas? I worked at enough concerts to know exactly what happens in those areas. Of course, I could be charitable and say that such things could never ever happen at such an event.
But such a statement just wouldn’t be true. You put young men and young women together, as in this video, fuel them with good rock music, get those endorphins and not coincidentally hormones racing, and I’ll guarantee you that something is going to happen.
And if it does whose fault is it? The kifs themselves, who look pretty much left to their own devices from what I saw? The chaperones who obviously can’t be everywhere at once or probably even able to exercise any control whatsoever in those areas or the organizers of the event who provided the place, the background and everything else?
I think the answer is obvious.
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piouswoman
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I don’t understand the relevance of the question…
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piouswoman
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It is encouraging to see a young person that recognizes the truth, that we live in a sick culture. I have found that the worst offenders of all and the most anti-tradition of all are the old folks, the old hippies and pre-Vatican II people who had modernist ideas hammered in to their psyche and blind obedience even in the face of the errors that the modernists were putting over on them…why, they couldn’t even see that those errors were not in line with Catholic teaching…pretty sad if you ask me.
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consumedconvert
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Ethelzguy you old hippy, get with the times and get in line with us young traditionalists while we criticize Pope John Paul II’s and Pope Benedict XVI’s efforts to reach out to youth at WYD. Don’t blindly follow the authorities of the Church–what’s wrong with you? Time to fall in line with tradition and criticize the authority!
You old hippy… lol
You old hippy… lol
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donmaximuso27
Guest
Sounds like you’re the one who needs to grasp the realization of the problems the Church faces today. Freshman88 did not criticize the Church in an uncharitable way, as you would have us believe. You need to recognize that since the sexual/drug/relativist revolution of the 60’s and 70’s, the Church has been under constant attack from a failing culture. Freshman88 simply pointed out how this failing culture is affecting our youth ministry, because this type of ministry uses many cultural aspects in its practice. You are right that we need to blame ourselves for the failure of our culture and society. Freshman88 never posted anything that objected to this idea. What the poster did was simply bring to light how we need to protect the Church and its youth from those failures.I have enough “grasp” to understand that we are each responsible FOR ourselves and, TO, God.
To submit a post on CAF that insinuates that the Church’s stewardship of our youth is responsible for your friends’ drug problems is both preposterous and irresponsible.
That commentary is so common today in the workplace with your generation. Always looking for someone/something else to blame for your problems, rather than accepting personal responsibility.
The Church teaches the truth, whether you like it’s style or not. You can lead a horse to water…
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ethelzguy
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Me, a hippie? Good Gawd child, I’m as un-hippie as they come. And, I’m about a decade too old for that generation anyway.Ethelzguy you old hippy, get with the times and get in line with us young traditionalists while we criticize Pope John Paul II’s and Pope Benedict XVI’s efforts to reach out to youth at WYD. Don’t blindly follow the authorities of the Church–what’s wrong with you? Time to fall in line with tradition and criticize the authority!
You old hippy… lol
Back to my Ferrante and Teicher CDs
That is, if the wife will take her Andy Williams CD out long enough for me to get mine on…
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ethelzguy
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Guess I must have been asleep for the last 40 years. NOT
Regardless of whatever “revolutions” have taken place over the decades, WE are still personally responsible for how WE behave and react over time.
SOCIETY has been “under constant attack” as you put it, not the Church. The Church has ebbed, flowed, and changed throughout history. The Church was not totally static from 70AD to 1965AD.
You want to go back to a church that Freshman88 admittedly didn’t live, but has only read about. And, you criticize those of us who HAVE “lived it” for decades, and are content and happy in God’s True Church, TODAY.
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anamchara
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“they were line dancing all night!” :bigyikes:and my other favorite. “they were milling about the whole day” The horrors. The dancing was earthy and sensual? :ehh: what naughty minds are watching these young people?OH! This could not have been any more ridiculously funny. I have seen many things posted but this has got to be the most far reaching and over the top bunch of rubbish I’ve ever seen.
THEY ARE YOUTH AND LOVE THE LORD! They are not doing drugs, having sex, watching porn. They are carrying around posters with the face of Christ and are filled with the Holy Spirit! They love the Lord as much as any traditionalists.
Good Lord people, get a grip. My three daughters would have loved that and I can tell you right now, it would make their faith stronger as adults down the road. I can assure you they would be turned off by the likes of people who put that kind of judgmental garbage up on u-tube.
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palmas85
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I suggest you watch the video again. Particularly the concert footage. Then tell me that the Lord was at the center of it. Particularly in the minds of those diving off the stage into the Mosh Pit and body surfing around.
OH! This could not have been any more ridiculously funny. I have seen many things posted but this has got to be the most far reaching and over the top bunch of rubbish I’ve ever seen.
THEY ARE YOUTH AND LOVE THE LORD! They are not doing drugs, having sex, watching porn. They are carrying around posters with the face of Christ and are filled with the Holy Spirit! They love the Lord as much as any traditionalists.
Good Lord people, get a grip. My three daughters would have loved that and I can tell you right now, it would make their faith stronger as adults down the road. I can assure you they would be turned off by the likes of people who put that kind of judgmental garbage up on u-tube.
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Freshman88
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I have never said that I want to go back to anything. In fact my position is quite the opposite. But keep on insuiting… it’s really doing me justice, thanks.
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anamchara
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palmas, I watched the whole thing and yes I did see that. I also see nothing wrong with it. It was a concert not a Mass and that is a traditional thing to do during concerts for youth. I seriously disagree with the judgments of the world youth day.
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donmaximuso27
Guest
Nobody is placing the blame of our sin on the Church! What part of that don’t you understand? We all agree that we must blame ourselves for the sin we have fallen into, whether in culture or society. Those who organize and operate WYD are personally responsible for maintaining a reverent, CHRISTOCENTRIC event. This isn’t a question of who is to blame for sin, that is obvious. What is in question here is whether or not WYD is a reverent event where the youth share the love of Christ, with piety and holiness. Society was attacked by sin and Devil, as it always has been. And because society is what is in the pews and congregations of the Church, the Church also came under attack by sin and teh Devil, as it always has. Therefore, it is always important to keep in mind the failures of our human nature and sinful society, especially at youth events. These events, and youth ministry in general, take a modernist, cultural approach to ministry. Therefore, we must be extra careful in youth ministry in protecting it from the sinful aspects of our culture.Guess I must have been asleep for the last 40 years. NOT
Regardless of whatever “revolutions” have taken place over the decades, WE are still personally responsible for how WE behave and react over time.
SOCIETY has been “under constant attack” as you put it, not the Church. The Church has ebbed, flowed, and changed throughout history. The Church was not totally static from 70AD to 1965AD.
You want to go back to a church that Freshman88 admittedly didn’t live, but has only read about. And, you criticize those of us who HAVE “lived it” for decades, and are content and happy in God’s True Church, TODAY.
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Dauphin
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A bunch of young people feeling each other up in a mosh pit is a wholesome event, is it?
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Dauphin
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Everyone knows that the Church was founded in the 60’s on the rock of cultural revolution! That “old church” was just bad to the bone. These young traditionalist folks sure are nuts!
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palmas85
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Well if you think it’s ok for Catholic Youth groups to not only provide the location and the music for this sort of activity but also advocate such behavior as shown then what can I say. This concert was part and parcel of the event itself, not something the kids went off to on their own. It was a big part of the whole program and in all likelihood a big reason some of the kids even went.
Just an aside, I worked as a police officer as security at more than a few concerts. Things happen, even to the best intentioned and most least suspect kids. To provide such an atmosphere, virtually un-chaperoned is in my opinion highly dangerous and placing the kids in a position that I think seriously inhibits their spiritual growth and can actually be detrimental to them.
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