Worldly media? Why doesn’t the Church take a clearer stance?

[JM3]

It becomes council when an opinion is requested and may be considered assault when not.

 

[TotusTuusForever]

So if you walk in on someone watching pornography you can’t tell them it’s wrong? I’m confused.

 

[SPBlitz]

There’s quite a difference between porn and a sitcom…

 

[TotusTuusForever]

I’m speaking about general media here since I was accused of thinking I could read souls.

 

[TotusTuusForever]

oh, thanks for the suggestion. I’ll have to check it out. I’ve never we heard of it before.

 

[Chistian-ity]

Some people are more susceptible to fall into sin after watching things like that, others don’t have a problem. I’m pretty sure it can be considered an “imperfection” which we should try to smooth out, but maybe not sinful in itself.

 

[TotusTuusForever]

Okay, thanks for the constructive criticism. I understand what you mean now that you’ve said it and that is not in anyway what I mean. I’m speaking matter of factly because I don’t want to add several hundred more words just to sugar coat it. I’m truly sorry if I’ve offended you and others here.

It does worry me though that many of my catholic peers are acquiescing to the media and secular culture. I think laughing at a joke about intimate body parts (which occurs on many modern sitcoms) does signify that a person might need to check themselves to see why they thought it was funny. I don’t know for sure, but from what I can gather, being deeply respectful of the human body automatically makes someone less likely to laugh at a crude joke especially when it is at someone else’s expense.

And just to add, I am not concerned about those Catholics who are trying to avoid bad media, but rather, those who think they can watch whatever they want and then argue with people who point out to them that it might not be healthy for their soul. It’s not the best example for young people.

 

[SPBlitz]

It does worry me though that many of my catholic peers are acquiescing to the media and secular culture. I think laughing at a joke about intimate body parts (which occurs on many modern sitcoms) does signify that a person might need to check themselves to see why they thought it was funny. I don’t know for sure, but from what I can gather, being deeply respectful of the human body automatically makes someone less likely to laugh at a crude joke especially when it is at someone else’s expense.

“I am not thinking primarily of indecent or bawdy humour, which, though much relied upon by second-rate tempters, is often disappointing in its results. The truth is that humans are pretty clearly divided on this matter into two classes. There are some to whom ‘no passion is as serious as lust’ and for whom an indecent story ceases to produce lasciviousness precisely in so far as it becomes funny: there are others in whom laughter and lust are excited at the same moment and by the same things. The first sort joke about sex because it gives rise to many incongruities: the second cultivate incongruities because they afford a pretext for talking about sex.”
CS Lewis, The Screwtape Letters

but rather, those who think they can watch whatever they want and then argue with people who point out to them that it might not be healthy for their soul.

This is sort of proving my point - in that you believe that someone watching a sitcom necessarily is in danger of sin. Some people might be, but not everyone.

 

[TotusTuusForever]

I suppose that argument is fair enough.

 

[SPBlitz]

While I’m sure you’re well meaning, I’d recommend you critique your friends’ habits judiciously. If you do it too much, or over too innocuous of things, you’ll quickly be labeled ‘the boy who cried sin’ and have any subsequent critiques dismissed out of hand.

 

[SPBlitz]

Also, in the spirit of constructive criticism: I think a good rule of thumb when judging a piece of media is: What is its purpose?

For example, watching porn is always a sin. Why? Because the purpose of porn is to sin. That’s why it exists. Everything that goes into porn is to get you to lust, and anyone that watches it is doing it because they want to lust. Nobody watches it ‘for the plot’.

What about Game of Thrones? Yes, there’s sex in it, and yes it might insight some people to sin, but assuredly not everyone that watches it does so for the sex scenes. They watch it for the richly constructed world and engaging characters. Watching that show for the sex could be concerning, but watching it for other reasons doesn’t necessarily mean you’ve sinned, or that you are impure, etc.

 

[puer.dei]

meant that there is no reason for anyone to react negatively towards this unless they are ignoring their conscience.

So, no one can actually just honestly have a different opinion than you do? Frankly, that comes across as pretty arrogant.

 

[1ke]

To my knowledge the Church doesn’t have a very clear stance on media

If by “media” you mean individual TV shows or movies, no of course not. There are millions of TV shows, movies, books, music, websites, etc. worldwide.

If by “media” you mean the mass media of the modern day, the Church has had, and continues to have, plenty to say.

John Paul II’s Media and the Family is a good place to start, as are many documents from the various Vatican congregations and councils, particularly the Pontifical Council on the Family and the Pontifical Council on Social Communication.

http://www.vatican.va/content/john-...ii_mes_20040124_world-communications-day.html

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...c_family_doc_20080905_antonelli-media_en.html

 

[1Lord1Faith]

“I am not thinking primarily of indecent or bawdy humour, which, though much relied upon by second-rate tempters, is often disappointing in its results.”

But this “indecent or bawdy humour” is basically what we’re talking about here. And it is indeed “often disappointing in its results”.

in that you believe that someone watching a sitcom necessarily is in danger of sin.

AFAIC, this is missing the point. If someone has a respect for the person and their inherent dignity given by God…then the bawdy, low brow humor just becomes a sick mocking of human dignity. Especially when it’s done on TV, over and over, gratuitously, with laugh tracks, being advertised as “must see entertainment”. It becomes normalized - that’s why it’s bad for the soul, not because someone watching an episode of Friends sees Joey sleep with some random woman, and then all of a sudden is going to think “oh, my hero Joey from Friends slept with a stranger, so I guess I can too”. I don’t think anyone here is saying that it’s that simple. It’s more about indoctrination and desensitization to moral issues over time.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

This is sort of proving my point - in that you believe that someone watching a sitcom necessarily is in danger of sin. Some people might be, but not everyone.

For example, watching porn is always a sin. Why? Because the purpose of porn is to sin. That’s why it exists. Everything that goes into porn is to get you to lust, and anyone that watches it is doing it because they want to lust. Nobody watches it ‘for the plot’.

What about Game of Thrones? Yes, there’s sex in it, and yes it might insight some people to sin, but assuredly not everyone that watches it does so for the sex scenes. They watch it for the richly constructed world and engaging characters. Watching that show for the sex could be concerning, but watching it for other reasons doesn’t necessarily mean you’ve sinned, or that you are impure, etc.

This is bothersome. A lot of what is in sitcoms or many movies today, less than 40 years ago would have been considered porn. Is watching sex scenes in sitcoms, movies or videos games in our culture today not sinful unless you act on what you watched?. Isn’t the sinfulness already in the watching of the impurity?

 

[WadeMoore]

If a show bothers your conscience, or you personally just don’t like it, don’t watch it.

I agree with your statement.

 

[Joe_5859]

With a lot of these threads someone comes here admonishing something or someone they’ve seen in the culture and other people respond by admonishing that person for admonishing something or someone else. So if I have it right, a Catholic can’t admonish something or someone in the culture but that Catholic can be admonished for admonishing?

At what point does it stop being pride and start being counsel?

I think a lot of it has to do with personal relationships. If we have a friendship with someone and have earned their trust, they are going to pay attention to our counsel given to them out of love.

When we get frustrated and just make blanket statements online because maybe we are frustrated and don’t know how to express that to people in real life, then we are bound to get push back from those who perceive it as some random stranger trying to tell them what’s best for them.

Such is the limits of an anonymous internet forum. People will always listen more carefully to advice from people who they know and who they know love them than they will listen to strangers.

 

[TheLittleLady]

worldly shows like Friends or Two and a Half Men

Friends ended 16 years ago, the other show ended 5 years ago.

Seems the people you know may be watching old shows for the nostalgia of their younger days?

We are not forbidden to watch/read fiction where people are portrayed as sinners. We are to be prudential, if we have perhaps an emotional or mental disability where we are not capable of separating the fiction from real life, or where we are easily influenced by fiction, it would not be wise to watch/read fiction.

The Church has made a clear stand on pornography, you can read it in the Catechism.

As for R rated movies or MA TV shows, those are left to the each person to determine what is harmful to them.

 

[TheLittleLady]

This is me. I’m picking people’s consciences.

That is the job of the Holy Spirit or of those over whom we have authority (for example, a parent may forbid their child from certain TV shows).

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Friends ended 16 years ago, the other show ended 5 years ago.

Seems the people you know may be watching old shows for the nostalgia of their younger days?

Where I live, my cable company has channels that are dedicated to these shows. It isn’t about nostalgia. Two and a Half Men is a disgusting show that is about nothing but sex, and even includes a young boy in the show learning this stuff, which several years back would have been considered pornography.

As for R rated movies or MA TV shows, those are left to the each person to determine what is harmful to them.

It seems people seem to think watching this trash does no harm to anyone else but in essence it does. Watching this stuff brings up the ratings, the ratings are good, so they make more shows that are similar or worse and the influence of our society toward this immorality increases.

The Church also teaches that our sins, whether done privately or not, effect the whole Church.

That is the job of the Holy Spirit or of those over whom we have authority (for example, a parent may forbid their child from certain TV shows).

Whatever happened to instruct the ingnorant and admonish sinners, or build each other up in the Lord or as iron sharpens iron so one person sharpens another?

If Catholics can’t bring up moral issues and discuss them, at least on a Catholic forum, who is going to? Well I guess we already see the answer to that - the world will answer and unfortunately their answer is the wrong answer.