Worried about Lifeteen coming to our Parish

[TLM08]

I consider myself a traditional Catholic. Granted I don’t go to a TLM all 7 days of the week, but I fully believe that Mass should be very reverent and try my best to stay active in learning about the faith. Unfortunately our Parish youth are trying to put in a Life teen Mass. I am very against this as our Masses already have drums, guitar, tambourines, and some modern upbeat songs ect… I feel very alone on this issue as I am the only one out of the youth who opposes having one. Everybody thinks Mass should be more fun, and more like a worship service. As one of the youth leaders at the church I do carry some respect and it will come time to where I need to speak up about, most likely at one of our meetings. I need some help, whether it be by links or advice why we should have a Life teen mass in our church. Also I will be speaking to our Priest about this as well.

Having been both a traditional catholic and now, a Bible believing Christian whose sole authority is the Word of God I feel safe to say that if indeed what happens on the altars of the Roman Catholic Church is the real sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ, there is no room for drums, guitars, hand shaking, high-fiving, dancing or anything similar that has been going on during the Mass over the last 40 years. To my way of thinking it’s a lot like playing a polka at the crucifixion.

Perhaps it is just my tendency to black and white thinking, but even as a traditional catholic, I simply never thought that stuff was appropriate.

 

[Layman]

there is no room for drums, guitars, hand shaking, high-fiving, dancing or anything similar that has been going on during the Mass over the last 40 years. To my way of thinking it’s a lot like playing a polka at the crucifixion.

[My emphasis above] I think you’ve hit the nail on the head, there. A sobering thought.

 

[JamieMc]

What? Now you are going to tell me that you’ve never been to a polka mass!!!

Have you guys never been to Minnesota?

 

[Layman]

I thought you were joking but a search on Google shows such a thing exists.

 

[catholic81]

[My emphasis above] I think you’ve hit the nail on the head, there. A sobering thought.

Just a reminder…Mass is a celebration not the Crusifiction. Furthermore there was a point in the church were the Organ was considered taboo for Church use because it evoked demonic sounds. It appears this thread has turned from a discussion of LifeTeen into a discussion of Liturgical Norms. The current LifeTeen mass (much different from the original LifeTeen masses up to 03’) is fully in line with liturgical norms for this day and age. Look up the rubric in the GIRM if you have questions for liturgical music or other areas of worship and compare them to what LifeTeen publishes (not what is done).

an interesting point, the psalms are supposed to be played on string instruments dating back to King David.

As for the conversation on Renewing the Vision, the youth are to be welcomed into the celebration of the mass. I have found very few churches where I have been “Welcomed” at mass, and I am not a teen.

I consider myself a traditional Catholic and I have been trained in liturgical norms and sacred music. Let’s not focus so much on how people are implementing the LifeTeen mass and more on what LifeTeen states liturgy should be.

Finally Mass is Mass. We receive the Eucharist which is the source and summit of our faith. That is good enough in any form for me!

 

[michaeldaniels]

You and your parish are in my prayers…I feel for you…as one that has accidentally attended a Life Teen Mass, I was saddened to see how much it strayed away from a reverent OF Mass…reminded me of the days way long ago when I was a protestant…and I became Catholic because I wanted a uniquely different style of worship that focused on God…and Communion with God and the Entire Church…not something that focused on entertainment and socializing

I consider myself a traditional Catholic. Granted I don’t go to a TLM all 7 days of the week, but I fully believe that Mass should be very reverent and try my best to stay active in learning about the faith. Unfortunately our Parish youth are trying to put in a Life teen Mass. I am very against this as our Masses already have drums, guitar, tambourines, and some modern upbeat songs ect… I feel very alone on this issue as I am the only one out of the youth who opposes having one. Everybody thinks Mass should be more fun, and more like a worship service. As one of the youth leaders at the church I do carry some respect and it will come time to where I need to speak up about, most likely at one of our meetings. I need some help, whether it be by links or advice why we should have a Life teen mass in our church. Also I will be speaking to our Priest about this as well.

 

[michaeldaniels]

I know we don’t see eye to eye on a lot of things, but on this, I whole heartedly agree my friend…you hit the nail on the proverbial “head”

Where on earth do they get the idea that Mass is supposed to be “fun”?

And what on earth do they mean by “like a worship service?”

The Celebration of the Eucharistic Sacrifice is the most important service of worship this side of Heaven.

 

[michaeldaniels]

Actually, the younger generations are starting to show a trend of leaning more towards traditional styles of worship…there has been an explosion of younger people my age and even younger that go to the TLM…no I don’t have numbers or figures…just what I have seen and hear from priest and other parishioners…My generation doesn’t want that touchy, feely, feel good, everything is ok Theology that the generation before us tried to make us inherit…We reject it…and it has been my experience that those wanting life teen masses are trying to feel as comfortable as they do when they go to their best friends protestant service…it is fun and exciting, so they think, why can’t our Mass be fun and exciting…They should only be focused on one thing…The God of The Universe, The Creator of All…The God Who died for our sins…Humbles Himself and becomes present at every Mass, and He gives Himself to us and we are able to consume Him…We are able to consume Love…Our Creator…that alone is enough reason to put them in the pews…It shouldn’t be about anything else to them and if it is, then they truly don’t understand the Great Mystery that takes place before them each Sunday…and if they don’t then as parents and teachers and priest, we have failed. Period!!!

Where do you get the idea that Heaven on Earth is supposed to be Hell?
Ask some teens and I expect many will say that is what it’s like–especially the ones with Gregorian chant, organ music and all in Latin.
Obviously, there are some that are very involved in their faith and and get it but I think the question to ask is are we trying to drive teens towards the Church or drum teens out of the Church.
I’m not pretending at all to have any answers at all but I think the questions are more complicated that the "my-way or the “hi-way” attitude that is prevelant here. I’m sure I’ll get hate mail but I have serious concerns on how to get teens more involved in their faith, more involved in their church.
Can we have that conversation or can someone point me to where I can. I’ve taught confirmation classes for nine years and I despise the “Crayon Jesus” mentality of having teens do arts and crafts to keep them entertained but I’ve learned that if you do not meet them on their ground you will be totally tuned out.
This is such a complicated subject but such an important one because these kids aren’t the future of the Church the ARE the Church and we have to do something to reach them. If having a mass on Sunday evenings with contempary music helps put teen butts in the pews and is incorporated with something before or after mass where they LEARN about their faith so that they maintain their faith and carry it into the world to me that beats the alternative.
I’m sure I’ll get flamed for this post but like someone said–it’s a multi-pronged monster. I just want to entertain the discussion of how to keep our youth in the Church as opposed to pushing them away.

 

[Sarabande]

Furthermore there was a point in the church were the Organ was considered taboo for Church use because it evoked demonic sounds.

Just wanted to clarify something… although there were periods in music history when cheesy or just poorly constructed organ compositions were created, it really was never considered “taboo” - at least from my reading of music history. (But if there are actually documents/writings from certain periods that expressed this, it would be interesting to read. I just haven’t seen it yet.) In regards to demonic sounds, there was certainly a time when certain kinds of chords and intervals were considered “demonic” such as the tri-tone (which is so commonly used through the centuries to today) also known as the “devil’s chord”, “Diabolus in Musica”, etc. and composers were forbidden to use these kinds of chords in their music, especially in their sacred compositions. But this wasn’t because of the organ.

Benedict XVI gives a very good history of the organ in his article and lecture “Church Music, a Spiritual and Intellectual Discipline” and how it became important and held in high esteem for liturgy. Rather than it ever being considered taboo or demonic-sounding within its history, it was more part of what he called “theo-political history” as explained below in this excerpt.

The organ is a theological instrument whose original home was the cult of the emperor. When the Emperor of Byzantium spoke, an organ played. **On the other hand the organ was supposed to be the combination of all the voices of the cosmos. Accordingly, the organ music at imperial utterances meant that when the divine emperor spoke, the entire universe resounded. **As a divine utterance, his statement is the resounding of all the voices in the cosmos. The “organon” is the cosmic instrument and as such the voice of the world’s ruler, the imperator.18 As against this Byzantine custom, Rome stressed a cosmic Christology and on that basis the cosmis function of Christ’s Vicar on earth: what was good enough for the Emperor was quite good enough for the Pope. Naturally, it is not a case here of superficial problems concerning prestige, but it is a matter of the public, political and cultic representation of the mandates received in each case. To the exclusivity of an imperial theology which abandoned the Church to the Emperor and degraded the bishops to mere imperial functionaries,19 Rome opposed the Pope’s cosmic claim and with it the cosmic rank of belief in Christ, which is independent of and indeed superior to politics. Therefore the organ had to resound in the papal liturgy as well.

It was also a way to separate the Church from the Temple and to show that the Christian faith, although acknowledges its history with the Jewish faith, had “surpassed” it by making a connection with the cosmos, the “Universal”. It’s an interesting point in Church history and sacred music history, especially in regards to what kinds of instrumentation was to be used for the liturgy sacrifice of the mass.

Such a borrowing from imperial theology is not regarded with favour by contemporary theological scholarship, which considers such acceptance as “Constantinian” or as “Romanisation,” which is naturally far worse than Hellenisation. As a matter of fact, what has been said thus far suffices to indicate clearly the convincing reasons for the whole process, as well as its logic within a Christian context:** this detour made it possible to avoid turning the Church into a synagogue and to carry out in practise the true claim of the Christian faith, which accepts the inheritance of the Temple and surpasses it by far, into the very dimensions of the Universal.**

Furthermore, the history of the organ remained a theo-political history for quite a long time: the fact that an organ resounds at the Carolingian court is an expression of the Carolingian claim to equality with Byzantium. Conversely, the Roman usage was transferred to the cathedrals and abbey churches. **Less than a lifetime ago it was still customary for the organ to play as background to the abbot’s recitation of the Pater noster in Benedictine abbeys, and this is to be understood as a direct inheritance from the ancient cosmic liturgy.**20

In regards to LifeTeen, I haven’t been to one in years, so it would not be fair for me to make much of a comment on the music. I do know as a musician and as a Church musician, we sometimes can’t base the music choices or instrumentation on how we are spiritually inspired or prefer, but by what the Church indicates for us.

 

[littlequestion]

They(youth a my church) think Mass should be more attention grabbing which means having all modern(up beat) worship music, encouraged clapping even during communion, only modern instruments(no organ), only hugs during the “peace be with you”, more hand holding. This is what you have in Lifeteen Mass.

I think the right thing to do is to have a teen fellowship meeting at which they can have a great time with this creative spirit, but it should not be a Mass with the Eucharist. Teens could go to the fellowship service and participate in it and still get their full adult portion of the Catholic Faith at Mass separately, with their parents and siblings, or even still just with their friends but in a quieter frame of mind.

I don’t understand why this fellowship has to replace the adult Mass for them. Jesus’ own mother was only about 15, after all, and certainly attended the Jewish services of her time as an adult.

 

[bkovacs]

What about a Life Teen Extra-Ordinary form Mass. Where teens learn how to Chant.

 

[littlequestion]

What about a Life Teen Extra-Ordinary form Mass. Where teens learn how to Chant.

Why are they being separated from the adults in the church? Why are they being denied access to adult life? They can participate in the choir, can’t they? They can arrange their own events for music, etc, can’t they? Why are they being isolated? Who is taking them away from their own Catholic community and telling them they should not be part of it?

 

[ljubim]

I only wish we could talk about the “TLM coming to our Parish.”

Why does Lifeteen spread so quickly throughout our parishes? I have never been to a Lifeteen Mass specifically, but have been to a “youth mass” and it was the worst experience of my life. Never before have I run out of Mass crying. I am restraining myself from a detailed explanation

This should help you make reparations for irreverence at Mass:

MOST Holy Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, I adore Thee profoundly.
I offer Thee the Most Precious Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity
of Jesus Christ, present in all the tabernacles of the world,
in reparation for the outrages, sacrileges, and indifference
by which He is offended. And through the infinite merit
of His Most Sacred Heart, and the Immaculate Heart of Mary,
I beg of Thee the conversion of poor sinners. (3 times)

It’s one of the many prayers given to the children at Fatima by the angel who preceded Our Lady’s visits.

Love,
another very concerned teenager

 

[palmas85]

I would be very worried if Lifeteen was coming to my parish now. I lived with Lifeteeen and its abuses of the Mass for many years. In order to get confirmed my kids had to attend a minimum number of Lifeteen events and Mases as is the practice in many Dioceses. And yes, I know that the supporters of Lifeteen will say that Lifeteen has nothing at all to do with that, but it is indeed a fact in many areas. While I don’t doubt that there may be reverent Lifeteen programs, it has never been my experience to find one. Over the years I attended many workshops at conferences and had the opportunity to talk with a lot of Lifeteen members and supporters.While generally well meaning there was a general feeling that they and only they could relate to the youth in their charge.

One of the problems with Lifeteen as I see it is that you never know exactly what will come out of it. It all depends on who is running it at the Parish level. Lifeteen, the organization, provides materials to the Parishes along with guides and suggestions on how to do things. It is totally up to the Parishes how to implement these things. A basic concept of the program is that youth by definition needs a separate program and having a separate Mass is part and parcel of that. In an effort to be relevant they introduced all manner of things into these programs and the Mass itself. When called on the carpet by Rome to reign in these things especially abuses in the Mass, the Lifeteen Organization sent out a well worded letter in which they expressed their obedience and fealty to Rome and agreed to sop all such abuses immediately.

They did not. :tsktsk:, And in fact due to the way that Lifeteen is run, I doubt that they ever could, short of having monitors at every Parish and every meeting, event and Mass.I would be very very concerned at this.

 

[kage_ar]

Lifeteen is two things - it is a plan of youth ministry and it can include a special mass.

It is only as good or a s bad as the leaders. Volunteer to be a leader.

 

[Lycorth]

I don’t think Lifeteen’s issues will be solved with leadership. Trying to jazz up the Mass with common instruments to make it seem more appealing will only result in turning more young people away when the novelty of Lifeteen wears off.

Traditional methods and Masses worked perfectly well for centuries. People need to learn how to appreciate the tried-and-true ways and not expect to be entertained and placated at church. It’s hard for many people, I imagine, to get past that sort of thinking in a world where being entertained is so very central to our lives.

It’s great to reach out to young people to bring them to the Lord. But, don’t fix what ain’t broke.

 

[Onegin]

Also, many teenagers get offended by the idea that we need to “dumb down” things to appeal to them or, alternatively, that people just assume that what is appealing to them is modern instruments. Many teens yearn to know more about Church tradition but the leaders are so bent on forcing the modern stuff that they never get the opportunity.

Don’t assume that “Life Teen” is really what today’s teens want (or need). Offer teens something to challenge them intellectually and spiritually. Teach them about the Church’s rich history and you may be surprised at how receptive they are.

 

[ljubim]

Also, many teenagers get offended by the idea that we need to “dumb down” things to appeal to them or, alternatively, that people just assume that what is appealing to them is modern instruments. Many teens yearn to know more about Church tradition but the leaders are so bent on forcing the modern stuff that they never get the opportunity.

Don’t assume that “Life Teen” is really what today’s teens want (or need). Offer teens something to challenge them intellectually and spiritually. Teach them about the Church’s rich history and you may be surprised at how receptive they are.

Thank you for such a breath of fresh air!

I’m a TLMteen, NOT a Lifeteen

 

[Brendan]

What about a Life Teen Extra-Ordinary form Mass. Where teens learn how to Chant.

Just what I was thinking. Our teen choir is mostly a schola and they do quite beautiful chant, and that’s at our parish’s OF Masses.

 

[Lycorth]

Also, many teenagers get offended by the idea that we need to “dumb down” things to appeal to them or, alternatively, that people just assume that what is appealing to them is modern instruments. Many teens yearn to know more about Church tradition but the leaders are so bent on forcing the modern stuff that they never get the opportunity.

Don’t assume that “Life Teen” is really what today’s teens want (or need). Offer teens something to challenge them intellectually and spiritually. Teach them about the Church’s rich history and you may be surprised at how receptive they are.

Hah! I totally forgot to mention that.

When I was a teen, I hated having things “dumbed down” for me. Even as a child I did not care for childish things or pandering - I wanted the straight facts. Teens can handle the traditional Church and understand it perfectly; adults merely have to take the time to explain things, same as with anyone. Young people are not idiots.

As a teen, I wanted the most traditional Church I could get. No amount of Latin, incense, long prayers, or anything put me off - I wanted the authentic Faith as closely as I could get to the Medieval glory days in which it reigned supreme. Dumbing things down was the surest way to keep me away.