Worried about Lifeteen coming to our Parish

[Melchior_1]

Often, as I have seen in these threads, when a person cannot find the authoritative document to support his position, he tends to resort to making it personal rather than being receptive to what the Church says.

I’m very receptive to what the Church says. And in case you haven’t noticed, I obviously have no beef with “Sacred Music”. I hear it often outside of Mass because of my wife.

There’s a reason why no one will show you documents, and I’ll say it for you; there are none. There are no documents that I have found which explicitly allow for modern instruments. I am well aware of this fact, and most people would be after a quick glance. You don’t need to keep on saying “no one ever produces anything” because we all know there’s nothing to produce.

What I am also well aware is what happened in 2004. I can toss out several links to news stories and the like. The US Bishops exorcised their power and sent out a document to Life Teen, and Life Teen listened. This was not a memo (although a memo with the notice was sent out of course) but came from the US Bishops. And they (Life Teen) listened in Canada and throughout the world as well. And by listen I mean be obedient to their shephards. The US Bishops are well aware of Life Teen, and the Canadian Bishops are well aware of the Companions of the Cross. Our Arch Bishop is aware of the program and the Mass and has nothing but good things to say about (so did the one before him). Several people have great things to say about the Companions as well, for their unique way of blending the Charismatic with solid orthadoxy.

If anything was wrong with what was happening, as I said before they would shut down those Masses. **The Bishops did not condemn the instruments or the Mass itself, just certain things that were done. ** Once again, those things were changed. They **had a chance to address the issue at that time by simply shutting down the Masses totally but they didn’t. **They haven’t yet shut down the “Life Teen” Mass, and I think that’s for a reason.

Do YOU think I’m a heretic? Or a selfish man seeking entertainment with a shallow faith? Am I sending these kids towards a path to hell because I play drums? Once again, this is not me being a strawman. I want your opinion on this. And you know my heart of hearts and the level of reverence at Mass?

 

[benedictgal]

I’m very receptive to what the Church says. And in case you haven’t noticed, I obviously have no beef with “Sacred Music”. I hear it often outside of Mass because of my wife.

There’s a reason why no one will show you documents, and I’ll say it for you; there are none. There are no documents that I have found which explicitly allow for modern instruments. I am well aware of this fact, and most people would be after a quick glance.

What I am also well aware is what happened in 2004. I can toss out several links to news stories and the like. The US Bishops exorcised their power and sent out a document to Life Teen, and Life Teen listened. This was not a memo (although a memo with the notice was sent out of course) but came from the US Bishops. And they (Life Teen) listened in Canada and throughout the world as well. And by listen I mean be obedient to their shephards. The US Bishops are well aware of Life Teen, and the Canadian Bishops are well aware of the Companions of the Cross. Our Arch Bishop is aware of the program and the Mass and has nothing but good things to say about (so did the one before him). Several people have great things to say about the Companions as well, for their unique way of blending the Charismatic with solid orthadoxy.

If anything was wrong with what was happening, as I said before they would shut down those Masses. **The Bishops did not condemn the instruments or the Mass itself, just certain things that were done. ** Once again, those things were changed. They haven’t yet shut down the “Life Teen” Mass, and I think that’s for a reason.

Do YOU think I’m a heretic? Or a selfish man seeking entertainment with a shallow faith? Am I sending these kids towards a path to hell because I play drums? Once again, this is not me being a strawman. I want your opinion on this.

Actually, it was the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, that clarified what should be happening at the Mass, not necessarily the USCCB. The USCCB was directed by the CDWDS to ensure that these clarifications were transmitted and enforced.

Please do not put words in my mouth. I have never called you a heretic. Again, you are not reading what I have posted and, as I see it, you are letting emotions get the better of you.

Musicam Sacram makes it very clear as to what is and what is not allowed:

1. In permitting and using musical instruments, the culture and traditions of individual peoples must be taken into account. However, those instruments which are, by common opinion and use, suitable for secular music only, are to be altogether prohibited from every liturgical celebration and from popular devotions.44

I don’t think that anyone can say, with a straight face, that electric guitars, electric bass guitars and drum kits are not, by common opinion and use, suitable for sacred music only. In another thread, the one that I started on the Liturgy and Sacraments forum, folks tried to make the argument that the Protestants were using these instruments. However, the Church does not have an asterisk to its documents indicating that if it’s fine with the Protestant ecclesial communities, then, it’s okay with us. That is not how it works.

You are also ignoring the concerns that the Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist expressed about the music used at Youth Masses and are still trying to justify yourself. You have yet to quote anything authoritative from the Church (as in the Holy See) to support your view points. Again, as I read your posts, you seem to be going on what feels good to you, as opposed to what the authoritative documents of the Church have to say.

Furthermore, if your wife teaches and composes Sacred Music, why not introduce this particular form to the youth. This is the preferred genre for the Church. Exposing them to the Church’s form of music for the Mass will help them grow. Save the other stuff for LifeNight or for prayer meetings, but, teach the teens about the beauty of the Church’s treasury of sacred music.

 

[Melchior_1]

Actually, it was the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, that clarified what should be happening at the Mass, not necessarily the USCCB. The USCCB was directed by the CDWDS to ensure that these clarifications were transmitted and enforced.

Which they did, and of course we listened. But it doesn’t diminish what I was saying;** if they had a problem with the instruments wouldn’t they have said to no longer use them?** Especially if this came from the CDWDS. Why did they not ban the instruments at that time?

Please do not put words in my mouth. I have never called you a heretic.

I know you didn’t call me a heretic, I never said you did. You’re putting words in my mouth by saying that I put them in your mouth (which means we’re feeding each other at this point). I’m asking you if you THINK I am a heretic, not that you called me one

I don’t think that anyone can say, with a straight face, that electric guitars, electric bass guitars and drum kits are not, by common opinion and use, suitable for sacred music only.

I can’t with a straight face say that organs are suitable for only Sacred Music and nothing else. I’m a Cubs (MLB) and a Habs (NHL) fan, after all.

You are also ignoring the concerns that the Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist expressed about the music used at Youth Masses and are still trying to justify yourself.

I’m not ignoring the concerns at all. Those concerns are VERY valid, and they also apply to all Masses (not just youth Masses). Once again, they did not outright prohibit anything. Otherwise I wouldn’t be playing drums every week.

You have yet to quote anything authoritative from the Church (as in the Holy See) to support your view points. Again, as I read your posts, you seem to be going on what feels good to you, as opposed to what the authoritative documents of the Church have to say.

There are no documents about music. There ARE documents about following your Bishops with obedience and listening to your shephards. You mean to tell me that if our Bishop encourages us that we should ignore it?

I have not lost sight of the lack of documents. I will repeat myself; I have not lost sight of the lack of documents. I also haven’t lost sight that the Bishop is fine with what we do, the CDWDS is alright with what we do (or else they would have shut down the Mass). They are obviously concerned for the possibility of bad stuff happening (the Synod) but they haven’t shut the door yet.

Furthermore, if your wife teaches and composes Sacred Music, why not introduce this particular form to the youth.

We do. The director of youth programmes at my Church also happens to be married to someone who is on the Sacred Music group the city has. I assure you we expose the youth to Sacred Music.

 

[Melchior_1]

I did find an news article regarding what happened in 2004. catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0404616.htm

Of note;

• "He said the Mesa, Ariz.-based Life Teen International approached U.S. bishops almost two years ago and asked for direction about the way Life Teen Masses should be conducted. Life Teen specifically asked for direction on how the liturgy could be in line with the new general instruction.

“Life Teen worked with Msgr. Moroney of the bishops’ Committee on Liturgy. It also was in contact with Bishop Thomas J. Olmsted of Phoenix, who consulted with Cardinal Francis Arinze, prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments at the Vatican”. *

On a related note, a lot of good came from this. At the time this gave us several wonderful opportunities from a Catechist/instructional standpoint. Things like the Church Hierarchy and why they do the things they do, obedience, and of course reminding the youth that Christ and the Eucharist is the center of the faith.

Things like this article should relieve some people (but not all). Life Teen (the organization) obviously wants to do the right thing as it pertains to the liturgy. Otherwise, why go through those channels? And the Vatican is obviously alright with things somewhat, otherwise they would have put an end to it back then. And they are obviously aware of the Life Teen movement and keeping an eye on things.

Sadly, as Michael mentioned earlier, sometimes things get lost along the way. People go overboard. And that goes back to the OP and what I have to say about ANY Ministry (youth or otherwise);

“There’s two kinds of leadershi_. One has a P, the other has another letter. If you have the former, it will be a HUGE blessing. If you have the later…well, we’ll be praying for your well being”.

 

[benedictgal]

I did find an news article regarding what happened in 2004. catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0404616.htm

Of note;

• "He said the Mesa, Ariz.-based Life Teen International approached U.S. bishops almost two years ago and asked for direction about the way Life Teen Masses should be conducted. Life Teen specifically asked for direction on how the liturgy could be in line with the new general instruction.

“Life Teen worked with Msgr. Moroney of the bishops’ Committee on Liturgy. It also was in contact with Bishop Thomas J. Olmsted of Phoenix, who consulted with Cardinal Francis Arinze, prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments at the Vatican”. *

On a related note, a lot of good came from this. At the time this gave us several wonderful opportunities from a Catechist/instructional standpoint. Things like the Church Hierarchy and why they do the things they do, obedience, and of course reminding the youth that Christ and the Eucharist is the center of the faith.

Things like this article should relieve some people (but not all). Life Teen (the organization) obviously wants to do the right thing as it pertains to the liturgy. Otherwise, why go through those channels? And the Vatican is obviously alright with things somewhat, otherwise they would have put an end to it back then. And they are obviously aware of the Life Teen movement and keeping an eye on things.

Sadly, as Michael mentioned earlier, sometimes things get lost along the way. People go overboard. And that goes back to the OP and what I have to say about ANY Ministry (youth or otherwise);

“There’s two kinds of leadershi_. One has a P, the other has another letter. If you have the former, it will be a HUGE blessing. If you have the later…well, we’ll be praying for your well being”.

This is a news article and not an official document of the Church. However, again, what you quoted dates back to 2004. The Synod on the Eucharist happened in 2005. Clearly, not everything has been settled, as the Synod Fathers classified the music used at Youth Masses as a shadow (and, that is not a positive classification).

 

[LoyalViews]

Where on earth do they get the idea that Mass is supposed to be “fun”?

And what on earth do they mean by “like a worship service?”

The Celebration of the Eucharistic Sacrifice is the most important service of worship this side of Heaven.

You said it! Also, I wouldnèt trust LifeTeen with 2 dollars. They are to fundamental. I fidn they are like something that you would find in Evangelical Protestantism … I are radically a wee bit liberal. I would suggest like you said to especially talk to the priest ang get him to intervene … ASAP!
The best of luck to you now!

 

[benedictgal]

Which they did, and of course we listened. But it doesn’t diminish what I was saying;** if they had a problem with the instruments wouldn’t they have said to no longer use them?** Especially if this came from the CDWDS. Why did they not ban the instruments at that time?

I know you didn’t call me a heretic, I never said you did. You’re putting words in my mouth by saying that I put them in your mouth (which means we’re feeding each other at this point). I’m asking you if you THINK I am a heretic, not that you called me one

I can’t with a straight face say that organs are suitable for only Sacred Music and nothing else. I’m a Cubs (MLB) and a Habs (NHL) fan, after all.

I’m not ignoring the concerns at all. Those concerns are VERY valid, and they also apply to all Masses (not just youth Masses). Once again, they did not outright prohibit anything. Otherwise I wouldn’t be playing drums every week.

There are no documents about music. There ARE documents about following your Bishops with obedience and listening to your shephards. You mean to tell me that if our Bishop encourages us that we should ignore it?

I have not lost sight of the lack of documents. I will repeat myself; I have not lost sight of the lack of documents. I also haven’t lost sight that the Bishop is fine with what we do, the CDWDS is alright with what we do (or else they would have shut down the Mass). They are obviously concerned for the possibility of bad stuff happening (the Synod) but they haven’t shut the door yet.

We do. The director of youth programmes at my Church also happens to be married to someone who is on the Sacred Music group the city has. I assure you we expose the youth to Sacred Music.

There is a document on music issued by the Holy See. In fact, there are several of them. For you to say that there is none leads me to believe that, with all due respect, you are subscribing more to how you feel than what the Church has stated.

Musicam Sacram (1967) is the authoritative document of the Holy See on music. You can find it by following this link:
adoremus.org/MusicamSacram.html

The Constitution on Sacred Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium, has a portion devoted to Sacred Music. You can find it by following this link:
adoremus.org/SacrosanctumConcilium.html

Sacramentum Caritatis, the response that Pope Benedict wrote to the Synod on the Eucharist can be found here:
adoremus.org/SacramentumCaritatis.html

Pope St. Pius X wrote a Motu Propio on Sacred Music, on which many of the Church’s statements on the subject are based:
adoremus.org/TraLeSollecitudini.html

Pope John Paul II wrote the Chirograph on Sacred Music to mark the 100th Anniversary of Tra Le Sollecitudini:
adoremus.org/Chirograph-SacredMusic.html

In this document, he notes that the same problems that plagued the Church insofar as Sacred Music was concerned back in 1903 are still present today. He even acknowledged that today’s music stands in need of purification.

What you do not seem to realize (nor want to admit, as I read your posts) is that the organ is the only instrument directly mentioned by name in the Church’s authoritative documents. That should indicate something to you.

Furthermore, the bishops are bound by obedience to follow the directives of the Holy See. Even the decision on musical instruments does not lie within the competency of an individual bishop; rather, such lies within the scope of the national episcopal conference, with the recognitio of the Holy See. Even the citation that was posted from the GIRM in the thread that I started in another forum does not give the complete picture. Musicam Sacram clearly states that:

However, those instruments which are, by common opinion and use, suitable for secular music only, are to be altogether prohibited from every liturgical celebration and from popular devotions.44

Footnote 44 comes from an instruction given by the Sacred Congregation for Rites (now known as the CDWDS) in 1958. Here is what the document states:

b) The difference between sacred, and secular music must be taken into consideration. Some musical instruments, such as the classic organ, are naturally appropriate for sacred music; others, such as string instruments which are played with a bow, are easily adapted to liturgical use. But there are some instruments which, by common estimation, are so associated with secular music that they are not at all adaptable for sacred use.

Again, it restates the issue point here:

1. Musical instruments which by common acception, and use are suitable only for secular music must be entirely excluded from all liturgical functions, and private devotions.

Just because it is 52 years old, that does not necessarily make that particular footnote outdated.

 

[Melchior_1]

This is a news article and not an official document of the Church. However, again, what you quoted dates back to 2004. The Synod on the Eucharist happened in 2005. Clearly, not everything has been settled, as the Synod Fathers classified the music used at Youth Masses as a shadow (and, that is not a positive classification).

The news article shows that Life Teen was in contact with, and received approval, to do the Life Teen Mass from the proper people within Rome. It also shows they worked extensively with them to make sure everything was on the up and up. At the time in 2004, the CDWDS put the stamp of approval on things. The USCCB also put their approval on things as well.

A year later, the Synod happens and they speak about Youth Masses. Please note they didn’t mention Life Teen Masses, but Youth Masses in general. It’s because not every youth organization who does Youth Masses spends a couple of years in contact with the Holy See, making sure they are doing things as the Vatican wishes.

To summarize; the CDWDS worked with Life Teen and the Bishops in the States to ensure that the Life Teen Mass met the GIRM back in 2004. The Synod was concerned about Youth Masses, but they did not specifically mention Life Teen. I’m not denying that they cast a shadow on Youth Masses at the Synod. Just like you can’t exactly deny that Life Teen did their due diligence and made sure they were conforming to GIRM standards. The news article clearly show they did their work on the matter and both CDWDS and the USCCB were fine with what was developed.

 

[benedictgal]

The news article shows that Life Teen was in contact with, and received approval, to do the Life Teen Mass from the proper people within Rome. It also shows they worked extensively with them to make sure everything was on the up and up. At the time in 2004, the CDWDS put the stamp of approval on things. The USCCB also put their approval on things as well.

A year later, the Synod happens and they speak about Youth Masses. Please note they didn’t mention Life Teen Masses, but Youth Masses in general. It’s because not every youth organization who does Youth Masses spends a couple of years in contact with the Holy See, making sure they are doing things as the Vatican wishes.

To summarize; the CDWDS worked with Life Teen and the Bishops in the States to ensure that the Life Teen Mass met the GIRM back in 2004. The Synod was concerned about Youth Masses, but they did not specifically mention Life Teen. I’m not denying that they cast a shadow on Youth Masses at the Synod. Just like you can’t exactly deny that Life Teen did their due diligence and made sure they were conforming to GIRM standards. The news article clearly show they did their work on the matter and both CDWDS and the USCCB were fine with what was developed.

The target group for these Youth Masses are teenagers. The target group for LifeTeen is the teenage crowd, as the name suggests. The genre of music used at these Youth Masses and at LifeTeen Masses is the same. Thus, it’s not very hard to conntec the dots, Melchior.

The news article is merely reporting something that happened. It is not quoting any authoritative document.

 

[Melchior_1]

There is a document on music issued by the Holy See. In fact, there are several of them. For you to say that there is none leads me to believe that, with all due respect, you are subscribing more to how you feel than what the Church has stated.

I’m trying to study Microsoft Exchange Server 2003 for my exam tomorrow, so if there’s typos my apologies. Sadly, this was one LARGE omission on my part. When I said “There are no documents about music” I meant to say “there are no documents about music supporting the use of modern instruments”.

My bad on that one. Next time I stumble across a thread like this I should wait until exams are done until posting.

I am well aware that the Church says the Organ only. What you do not seem to realize (nor want to admit, as I read your posts) is that Life Teen was in direct communication with the Holy See and received approval to do Life Teen Mass. That should indicate something to you.

I do want to mention that I respect your viewpoint on this, and I applaud the passion you have towards this topc. Regardless of our respective opinions, I think we’re both on the same side with this in the sense we both want reverent and radical devotion to the Blessed Sacrament. And if we both bring this much passion to what we do in Ministry as we do here, then it’s the Church that wins. I also want to thank you for engaging in an actual intellectual conversation with proper typing. Too many other message boards I visit do not do that.

LoyalViews, outside of modern music and myself being a part of Life Teen, I’m willing to metaphorically bet that I teach/preach/believe everything you do. You’re painting with the wide brush, friend, by saying all of Life Teen is filled with “liberals”.

 

[Melchior_1]

The target group for these Youth Masses are teenagers. The target group for LifeTeen is the teenage crowd, as the name suggests. The genre of music used at these Youth Masses and at LifeTeen Masses is the same. Thus, it’s not very hard to conntec the dots, Melchior.

So because the music is the same, all the Youth Masses must be as well? Dots or not, that logic seems flawed to me.

Example; there’s a CRAZY liberal Church in my city run by the Oblates. Do I cut all Oblates from the same cloth? No, because there’s different kinds of Oblates.

EDIT: Something I wrote came out wrong, and what I actually want to say is in poor taste. I’ll self-moderate this for content.

 

[benedictgal]

I’m trying to study Microsoft Exchange Server 2003 for my exam tomorrow, so if there’s typos my apologies. Sadly, this was one LARGE omission on my part. When I said “There are no documents about music” I meant to say “there are no documents about music supporting the use of modern instruments”.

My bad on that one. Next time I stumble across a thread like this I should wait until exams are done until posting.

I am well aware that the Church says the Organ only. What you do not seem to realize (nor want to admit, as I read your posts) is that Life Teen was in direct communication with the Holy See and received approval to do Life Teen Mass. That should indicate something to you.

I do want to mention that I respect your viewpoint on this, and I applaud the passion you have towards this topc. Regardless of our respective opinions, I think we’re both on the same side with this in the sense we both want reverent and radical devotion to the Blessed Sacrament. And if we both bring this much passion to what we do in Ministry as we do here, then it’s the Church that wins. I also want to thank you for engaging in an actual intellectual conversation with proper typing. Too many other message boards I visit do not do that.

LoyalViews, outside of modern music and myself being a part of Life Teen, I’m willing to metaphorically bet that I teach/preach/believe everything you do. You’re painting with the wide brush, friend, by saying all of Life Teen is filled with “liberals”.

Thank you for your kind words. I have sat on my diocese’s liturgical commission, and was treated as the workhorse for three years. That is why I have had to study every shred of written documentation handed down by Rome. That was the only way I could provide justifiable service to the diocese. I also served as the director of worship at our cathedral, all in a volunteer capacity. In fact, there have been times when priests have called upon me for help in digging stuff up for them.

My main concern is that, as we hand down the authentic Faith of the Church, we do so in a manner that exposes the next generation to the vast treasury of the Church’s Sacred Music. These were the hymns that our ancestors sang for several centuries. If you were to examine them and their simple melodies, they convey a genuine Sensus Fidei and have a generous measure of majesty, solemnity, dignity and beauty. In fact, if you catch the Papal Mass next Wednesday, you will see what I mean.

They also don’t water down things. Attende Domine remains one of the best Lenten hymns. It pulls no punches. It forces us to admit that we are sinners who need to implore God’s mercy. It reminds us that Jesus took upon Himself our sins and was sacrificed in our stead. It’s also a hymn that can be sung without musical instruments. If you look at the words, they will pierce you, probably more than any of the PW stuff put together. It is impacting and it is a hymn that the Church has sung during Lent for several centuries.

 

[Melchior_1]

Thank you for your kind words. I have sat on my diocese’s liturgical commission, and was treated as the workhorse for three years. That is why I have had to study every shred of written documentation handed down by Rome. That was the only way I could provide justifiable service to the diocese. I also served as the director of worship at our cathedral, all in a volunteer capacity. In fact, there have been times when priests have called upon me for help in digging stuff up for them.

My main concern is that, as we hand down the authentic Faith of the Church, we do so in a manner that exposes the next generation to the vast treasury of the Church’s Sacred Music. These were the hymns that our ancestors sang for several centuries. If you were to examine them and their simple melodies, they convey a genuine Sensus Fidei and have a generous measure of majesty, solemnity, dignity and beauty. In fact, if you catch the Papal Mass next Wednesday, you will see what I mean.

They also don’t water down things. Attende Domine remains one of the best Lenten hymns. It pulls no punches. It forces us to admit that we are sinners who need to implore God’s mercy. It reminds us that Jesus took upon Himself our sins and was sacrificed in our stead. It’s also a hymn that can be sung without musical instruments. If you look at the words, they will pierce you, probably more than any of the PW stuff put together. It is impacting and it is a hymn that the Church has sung during Lent for several centuries.

Believe it or not, I share your concerns. I actually share MOST concerns that people have in this thread. One of my worse nightmares is that I’m teaching bad theology and I like the reassurance. Music is no exception, and although I would prefer an explicit authoritative document, the fact that Life Teen went to the proper channels to ensure everything was fine gives me a sense of peace.

I’m a weird case. I came to this city and I wanted a Parish where there’s a more modern style of music, but I want ORTHODOX teachings and no liturgical abuses. An odd mix, right? So before I joined the Core Team, I volunteered to see what things were like there. I was uneasy with some of the things they did. Not the music, obviously. The theology was SOLID, loved it. SOLID SOLID teaching. Loved the fact they centered everything around the Eucharist. But some of the other stuff (outlined in the article) I didn’t like. When I found out about the changes they had to make and that they got approval, that set me at peace and I continued to volunteer there (and eventually joined the Core Team). Because the Leaders in Rome said it was cool, so it was cool by me.

I agree that a lot of the modern Christian music is pretty “dumbed” down, which is why we’ve started taking some of those traditional hymns and adjusting them to our style. We did “All Creatures of Our God and King” as a Communion hymn a couple of weeks ago, and it was WONDERFUL (the youth and adults alike loved it). And of course, Christmas time is Christmas time. Lent time is Lent time. Some songs just work. But there’s some talented modern writers out there who I respect and admire. I love Jim Cowen, for example. And as always, when we pick more modern songs, we make sure they fit the readings and the Gospel just like we would any other songs.

Your main concern about the loss of Sacred Music through the years is VERY much valid, and I assure you that myself and others WANT it to keep going. It is not the intent of modern music advocates like myself to stamp out the Sacred Music, and any who do have no idea behind the history of the Church OR the history of music. I try to do that by focusing on the theology of the Eucharist. Getting the kids ready for that when they leave Life Teen they have an understand of the Mass and the ability to go to any Church and know Jesus is there, fully Present. That they can go to Mass in Russia and still be able to believe and receive Our Lord.

I applaud the work you do, and I think it’s wonderful that you do it. We need people like you within the Church to advocate for Sacred Music, because it some circles it doesn’t get a fair shake. And I truly believe this doesn’t need to be an “all or nothing” thing, I think that both styles can exist in the same parish so long as respect and reverence is involved.

I always find it interesting that I married a classically trained composer, someone with such a love for Sacred Music…and she married a small town guy who loves modern worship music. She says the respect I have for Sacred Music (and classical music overall) drew her to me, because although I’m obviously more inclined for the modern stuff. Our wedding was funny, she picked the music and we had a bit of everything (including some of her own original pieces) from Sacred Music to a more Gospel-type feel.

No drums though. She probably thought I’d go play them at some point if they were set up

 

[CMatt25]

Would you play drums during the Last Supper?.

I wonder if Latin and English were spoken at the Last Supper or even when believers first gathered together for communion in the early Acts?

 

[lovemyboys]

I think if someone had come to Jesus with a drum during the last supper, wanting to play it for him, He would have allowed it. Jesus cared about what was people’s hearts, not silly formalities.

 

[CMatt25]

I think if someone had come to Jesus with a drum during the last supper, wanting to play it for him, He would have allowed it. Jesus cared about what was people’s hearts, not silly formalities.

 

[Melchior_1]

. Jesus cared about what was people’s hearts, not silly formalities.

It’s a fine line, which is why I can understand the others in this case. You say that and it opens the door for a lot of potential issues and abuses, which actually highlights the discussion earlier. I wouldn’t be shocked after Life Teen got permission from Rome to do their Mass, others figured “oh hey lets do our own!” and left out the “silly” formality of talking to Rome first.

Hence why the Synod happened. As I tell the kids, NOTHING the Catholic Church teaches is by accident. Even the what the Priests wear at Mass has special meaning. It’s no coincidence, this timeline. The timing for the Synod makes too much sense in this context. And I think benedictgal and I are both worried about what issues the Synod addressed.

benedictgal’s concern, if I’m not mistaken at this point, is that Sacred Music and reverence are being swept away in some circles, and that youth will get a sugar-coated liturgy without meaning (please correct me if I am wrong). My concern is that people are taking something solid and went too far with it, potentially ruining what myself and others have tirelessly worked hard to build.

The “formalities” are always there for a reason though, and myself personally I do not want to diminish these, rather I want to work with them and through them. They are there for a reason. Just like human life, there are no accidents.

(That said, I’d still play the drums at the Last Supper).

EDIT: Is there a limit for this Trial Membership dealio? I’d hate to run out of eligible posts.

 

[lovemyboys]

It’s a fine line, which is why I can understand the others in this case. You say that and it opens the door for a lot of potential issues and abuses, which actually highlights the discussion earlier. I wouldn’t be shocked after Life Teen got permission from Rome to do their Mass, others figured “oh hey lets do our own!” and left out the “silly” formality of talking to Rome first.

Hence why the Synod happened. As I tell the kids, NOTHING the Catholic Church teaches is by accident. Even the what the Priests wear at Mass has special meaning. It’s no coincidence, this timeline. The timing for the Synod makes too much sense in this context. And I think benedictgal and I are both worried about what issues the Synod addressed.

benedictgal’s concern, if I’m not mistaken at this point, is that Sacred Music and reverence are being swept away in some circles, and that youth will get a sugar-coated liturgy without meaning (please correct me if I am wrong). My concern is that people are taking something solid and went too far with it, potentially ruining what myself and others have tirelessly worked hard to build.

The “formalities” are always there for a reason though, and myself personally I do not want to diminish these, rather I want to work with them and through them. They are there for a reason. Just like human life, there are no accidents.

(That said, I’d still play the drums at the Last Supper).

EDIT: Is there a limit for this Trial Membership dealio? I’d hate to run out of eligible posts.

Point taken…

 

[Onegin]

Michaeldaniels has a good point here so I’ll add that I still haven’t gotten a clear reason either as to why teens supposedly need a “different” Mass? Who decided that the Mass the rest of us attend isn’t good enough for them?

In getting all hyped up about different forms of worship, aren’t we forgetting that the defining characteristic of the Mass is that it is the same at all times and all places? To me, Life Teen seems to be taking a fundamentally Catholic concept and throwing it out the window in favor of a more Protestant attitude of encouraging teens to go to a church where the service suits your style.

Different forms of prayer are fine. Different devotions appeal to different people. But the Mass is something that is not subjective and was never intended to suit every persons’s individual “liturgical preference.” That’s simply not what it is about.

Also, does anyone know if the practice of congregating all the teens around the altar during the consecration ever got scrapped? They did it frequently when I was in college but I’m not sure if that’s managed to hang on or if Rome finally put a stop to it.

 

[Melchior_1]

Onegin, please follow the link I provided earlier. They consulted Rome and removed the standing in the Sanctuary with the Priest five and a half years ago.

lifeteen.com/default.aspx?PageID=BGQADETAIL&__DocumentId=255513 is from a Q & A section, and provides a good place for how Life Teen wants people to get into the Mass.

catholicyouthministry.com/top-12-misconceptions-about-life-teen-in-no-particular-order covers some misconceptions about Life Teen.

catholicyouthministry.com/teens-distracted-at-mass-reverence-begins-with-relevance is something I can get on board with.

And finally, catholicyouthministry.com/youth-focused-mass-overview-and-direction is a recent blog posted on their site about Youth Masses. Your Mileage May Vary on some, but I don’t think you can complain about “Don’t mess with the ritual. You do a disservice to the community by breaking the unity of the universal experience of the order and flow of the liturgy. Work at helping teens understand the central elements of liturgy. Try to do what you do with excellence, style and grace. Bring out the real elements of the liturgy and place emphasis where it belongs – on the Community, the Word, and the Eucharist” or about the fact it is for families as well as youth.