Worried about my husband's views (sedevacantism)

[mariecaroline]

I’m turning to this forum for prayers and help because I don’t know where to turn and I can’t talk to anyone I know. My husband and I experienced a “reversion” to traditional catholicism a few years ago. We were on an incredible journey together from being catholics in name only to attending the EF at an amazing parish - to a point. We made a big leap of faith to follow advice of our spiritual director which involved a move across the country with our small children. I had never felt closer to my husband and I was happy that we made that sacrifice together but then after our move, he began to talk about sedevacantism and “independent” churches, etc. I was nearly taken in by his arguments but after a year of hearing this garbage I finally talked to a priest who pointed me towards some reading to refute his points. We had some tense conversations and arguments after which he began to say that he had merely been “sympathetic” to their viewpoints and that he didn’t want to talk about it any longer.

He no longer attends the “independent” church, but he still seems to have what might be vestiges of that point of view. Not entirely sure where these ideas come from, but his brand of Catholicism has begun to seem really oppressive and negative to me. He detests the “Novus Ordo” and labels certain groups of Catholics “Neocats” He is sometimes very critical of the priest and his way of celebrating the mass, what he is wearing, etc. He is critical of the Holy Father, our neighbors, my friends who are not traditional catholics-- everyone. Recently we were invited to a Jewish wedding of an old and dear friend who has been very kind to us and he has refused to go to the ceremony even though the marriage will be valid (our priest has said it was fine as long as we didn’t actively participate in the ceremony). He says his reason is that Judaism is “repugnant” to him.

I have embraced a very traditional catholic life and am naturally docile but I feel an urge to rebel when confronted with this kind of negativity. I’m afraid my children will feel the same way about his views and that it may lead them further from the faith instead of closer. Any advice and prayers would be welcome.

 

[Gidge]

I understand your frustration. Prior to Vatican II you could run into a priest in a public place and reasonably assume that he and you held the same beliefs. This, sadly, is not the case today.

Sedevacantism is a backlash to all the abhorrent abuses that were propagated under the banner Vatican II. Aristotle stated (Ethics) that when men are bending timber they cause the wood to be bent to the opposite extreme in order to arrive at the median position.

The sad part about sedevacantism is that in their zeal to preserve tradition, they actually break with the church by creating a schism.

We’re traditional Catholics, and we never participate in any non-Catholic services.
We have Jewish friends too, and have had to explain, that they deny Christ and how can I as a Christian approve of anyone committing themselves to this? They then went on to point to all their other (non-traditional) Catholic friends who were attending their service – we then went on to explain how seriously we take out faith and then invited them to attend Mass with us some time.

It is much more charitable to tell these friends the truth then allow them to stay in error, IMO.



Here’s a link that may help :

fisheaters.com/traditionalcatholicism.html

 

[Armor_of_Light]

I don’t think we’re supposed to link to that particular catholic site on CAF, but…have a go at the above link.

That being said, I know a LOT of trads who go through this type of thing. Myself included. It gets old pretty quickly! I’ll pray for your husband, that he may mellow out a bit.

Part of the process is the constant learning, digging, research, etc…that normally accompanies the trad-leaning mindset. Once you ‘discover’ something, you theoretically can keep digging up writings of the saints, documents from Trent, etc, until you are dead and you still have barely scratched the surface. A lot of trads follow what they think is a logical course of thought and that leads to sedevacantism.

Intellectual pride. Too smart for their own good!

 

[MaryT777]

Prayers for you and your husband said.

 

[OraLabora]

We often do go through an intensely “doctrinaire” position when converting to or returning to a faith. Call it the “zeal of the newly converted”. In that phase we tend to look for black-and-white answers. We think that because we understand correct doctrine, that we can overcome sin by our own willpower which we mislabel as overcoming sin by prayer.

It can be a particularly tough time on one’s loved ones as we tend to exclude those who don’t think like we do.

I know, I’ve been there. And I was the guilty party. While on the surface we may succeed in overcoming whatever sins we think we can overcome, the poison usually comes out in other ways that are hard on all those around us.

With the help of monastic affiliation, slowly God chipped away at that. Then a bit of a minor meltdown with respect to sin resulted in my realizing that we aren’t saved through our own will but through God’s grace and mercy, and that amazingly, He even made that grace available to my Protestant wife who found it in her heart to forgive me, and since then things have been blissful between us and in general.

It may be your husband is going through something similar. It may take time to overcome that, including a bit of a dark night of the soul like I went through.

God bless and you’re in my prayers.

 

[Reborn2013]

Here’s a link that may help :

fisheaters.com/traditionalcatholicism.html

It is sad that so many churches have fallen into these habits. The pictures here don’t surprise me. The truth hurts.

 

[brasta_septim]

We’re traditional Catholics, and we never participate in any non-Catholic services.

Odd; I’m an Eastern Catholic, and I regularly go to the local Orthodox temple on Sunday due to the lack of a Byzantine parish; the local Latin priest, even as much a traditionalist as he is, said there was nothing wrong with that.

 

[clem456]

I’m turning to this forum for prayers and help because I don’t know where to turn and I can’t talk to anyone I know. My husband and I experienced a “reversion” to traditional catholicism a few years ago. We were on an incredible journey together from being catholics in name only to attending the EF at an amazing parish - to a point. We made a big leap of faith to follow advice of our spiritual director which involved a move across the country with our small children. I had never felt closer to my husband and I was happy that we made that sacrifice together but then after our move, he began to talk about sedevacantism and “independent” churches, etc. I was nearly taken in by his arguments but after a year of hearing this garbage I finally talked to a priest who pointed me towards some reading to refute his points. We had some tense conversations and arguments after which he began to say that he had merely been “sympathetic” to their viewpoints and that he didn’t want to talk about it any longer.

He no longer attends the “independent” church, but he still seems to have what might be vestiges of that point of view. Not entirely sure where these ideas come from, but his brand of Catholicism has begun to seem really oppressive and negative to me. He detests the “Novus Ordo” and labels certain groups of Catholics “Neocats” He is sometimes very critical of the priest and his way of celebrating the mass, what he is wearing, etc. He is critical of the Holy Father, our neighbors, my friends who are not traditional catholics-- everyone. Recently we were invited to a Jewish wedding of an old and dear friend who has been very kind to us and he has refused to go to the ceremony even though the marriage will be valid (our priest has said it was fine as long as we didn’t actively participate in the ceremony). He says his reason is that Judaism is “repugnant” to him.

I have embraced a very traditional catholic life and am naturally docile but I feel an urge to rebel when confronted with this kind of negativity. I’m afraid my children will feel the same way about his views and that it may lead them further from the faith instead of closer. Any advice and prayers would be welcome.

Sounds like more of a personality problem than a problem with any particular church or faith tradition.
Tell him that prejudice is unacceptable to you. He finds Judaism repugnant? Rent Schindler’s List and watch it with him. That’s where these attitudes lead.
Tell him that no one gets to make his own personal rules in life, we all depend on others to help each other out. Requires a lot of trust, tolerance, and sacrifice.
Tell him the Catholic Church proposes loving trust and obedience to the Pope and Magisterium…as it exists, not as He wishes it to be.
Prayers for you and your husband.

 

[clem456]

I understand your frustration. Prior to Vatican II you could run into a priest in a public place and reasonably assume that he and you held the same beliefs. This, sadly, is not the case today.

Sedevacantism is a backlash to all the abhorrent abuses that were propagated under the banner Vatican II. Aristotle stated (Ethics) that when men are bending timber they cause the wood to be bent to the opposite extreme in order to arrive at the median position.
There is no justification for disobedience to the Church. We can’t blame our problems on the imperfections of others, or any state of dissatisfaction we have with others. The sad part about sedevacantism is that in their zeal to preserve tradition, they actually break with the church by creating a schism.

We’re traditional Catholics, and we never participate in any non-Catholic services.
I’ve been to services from other traditions before. There is no problem with that in the right context. I know who I am and what I believe and try to hold fast to that at all times.
We have Jewish friends too, and have had to explain, that they deny Christ and how can I as a Christian approve of anyone committing themselves to this? They then went on to point to all their other (non-traditional) Catholic friends who were attending their service – we then went on to explain how seriously we take out faith and then invited them to attend Mass with us some time.

It is much more charitable to tell these friends the truth then allow them to stay in error, IMO.
As long as you have respect for their faith traditions and customs, fire away with the truth, and good luck.


Here’s a link that may help :

fisheaters.com/traditionalcatholicism.html

 

[Gidge]

I’m turning to this forum for prayers and help because I don’t know where to turn and I can’t talk to anyone I know. My husband and I experienced a “reversion” to traditional catholicism a few years ago. We were on an incredible journey together from being catholics in name only to attending the EF at an amazing parish - to a point. We made a big leap of faith to follow advice of our spiritual director which involved a move across the country with our small children. I had never felt closer to my husband and I was happy that we made that sacrifice together but then after our move, he began to talk about sedevacantism and “independent” churches, etc. I was nearly taken in by his arguments but after a year of hearing this garbage I finally talked to a priest who pointed me towards some reading to refute his points. We had some tense conversations and arguments after which he began to say that he had merely been “sympathetic” to their viewpoints and that he didn’t want to talk about it any longer.

He no longer attends the “independent” church, but he still seems to have what might be vestiges of that point of view. Not entirely sure where these ideas come from, but his brand of Catholicism has begun to seem really oppressive and negative to me. He detests the “Novus Ordo” and labels certain groups of Catholics “Neocats” He is sometimes very critical of the priest and his way of celebrating the mass, what he is wearing, etc. He is critical of the Holy Father, our neighbors, my friends who are not traditional catholics-- everyone. Recently we were invited to a Jewish wedding of an old and dear friend who has been very kind to us and he has refused to go to the ceremony even though the marriage will be valid (our priest has said it was fine as long as we didn’t actively participate in the ceremony). He says his reason is that Judaism is “repugnant” to him.

I have embraced a very traditional catholic life and am naturally docile but I feel an urge to rebel when confronted with this kind of negativity. I’m afraid my children will feel the same way about his views and that it may lead them further from the faith instead of closer. Any advice and prayers would be welcome.

It is the father’s duty to protect his family from error, and Judaism no longer has a valid priesthood, to claim otherwise, makes a mockery of Our Lord’s passion, death and resurrection (I find it interesting that this thread has “anti-Semitism” as a tag). While it is our duty to evangelize to non-Christians, we need not participate in their services.

I think many traditional Catholics are tempted to sedevacantism, given the abuses of the past 50 years; however, sedevacantism is not a solution, but actually a schism.

We’ll keep you both in our prayers

 

[Lormar]

I’m turning to this forum for prayers and help because I don’t know where to turn and I can’t talk to anyone I know. My husband and I experienced a “reversion” to traditional catholicism a few years ago. We were on an incredible journey together from being catholics in name only to attending the EF at an amazing parish - to a point. We made a big leap of faith to follow advice of our spiritual director which involved a move across the country with our small children. I had never felt closer to my husband and I was happy that we made that sacrifice together but then after our move, he began to talk about sedevacantism and “independent” churches, etc. I was nearly taken in by his arguments but after a year of hearing this garbage I finally talked to a priest who pointed me towards some reading to refute his points. We had some tense conversations and arguments after which he began to say that he had merely been “sympathetic” to their viewpoints and that he didn’t want to talk about it any longer.

He no longer attends the “independent” church, but he still seems to have what might be vestiges of that point of view. Not entirely sure where these ideas come from, but his brand of Catholicism has begun to seem really oppressive and negative to me. He detests the “Novus Ordo” and labels certain groups of Catholics “Neocats” He is sometimes very critical of the priest and his way of celebrating the mass, what he is wearing, etc. He is critical of the Holy Father, our neighbors, my friends who are not traditional catholics-- everyone. Recently we were invited to a Jewish wedding of an old and dear friend who has been very kind to us and he has refused to go to the ceremony even though the marriage will be valid (our priest has said it was fine as long as we didn’t actively participate in the ceremony). He says his reason is that Judaism is “repugnant” to him.

I have embraced a very traditional catholic life and am naturally docile but I feel an urge to rebel when confronted with this kind of negativity. I’m afraid my children will feel the same way about his views and that it may lead them further from the faith instead of closer. Any advice and prayers would be welcome.

Marie Caroline, you will be in my prayers. You must have patience with your husband. Above all, pray for him daily. He may always be like he is; getting rid of that mindset takes a miracle. Perhaps Our Lord will choose to grant one for your husband through Our Blessed Mother. If not, you will just have to learn to live with how he is.

I am a former sedevacantist/SSPXer, so I know what I am talking about.

 

[Lormar]

Sounds like more of a personality problem than a problem with any particular church or faith tradition.
Tell him that prejudice is unacceptable to you. He finds Judaism repugnant? Rent Schindler’s List and watch it with him. That’s where these attitudes lead.
Tell him that no one gets to make his own personal rules in life, we all depend on others to help each other out. Requires a lot of trust, tolerance, and sacrifice.
Tell him the Catholic Church proposes loving trust and obedience to the Pope and Magisterium…as it exists, not as He wishes it to be.
Prayers for you and your husband.

No. It is not a “personality problem.”

 

[clem456]

No. It is not a “personality problem.”

Referring specifically to the husband…
When the person goes against the Church in a matter of faith, he is exalting his own person ahead of the Church.
Individual person first, hence the term personality. Apologies if I am misusing the word personality.

 

[quiet52]

…Not entirely sure where these ideas come from, but his brand of Catholicism has begun to seem really oppressive and negative to me. …Recently we were invited to a Jewish wedding of an old and dear friend who has been very kind to us and he has refused to go to the ceremony even though the marriage will be valid (our priest has said it was fine as long as we didn’t actively participate in the ceremony). He says his reason is that Judaism is “repugnant” to him… I’m afraid my children will feel the same way about his views and that it may lead them further from the faith instead of closer…

St. Paul was like this and then some for a while (against everyone who wasn’t Jewish enough).

Please do what you can to be positive and joyful about the faith, especially with your children.

And we need to appreciate our Jewish heritage, and to love our Jewish brothers and sisters, who do not yet recognize that the Messiah they are waiting for has come.