Worrisome Statistics

[CelestineFan]

I’m not entirely sure how I can convey my thoughts on this matter, nor whether they will come across as unrestrained fanaticism, but I will try regardless.

I came across this piece of information: “By their early 20s, some 79% of never-married women—and 89% of never-married Catholic women—have had sex.” (Source: guttmacher.org/media/inthenews/2012/02/15/index.html).

Now, I’m usually distraught and despairing on matters of culture and social mores (I have only recently considered changing my mind on my lifelong goal of becoming an anchorite), but with this piece of information having been exhibited, I ask: what would the chances of me (or any person who has lived their life in an utmost chaste manner) actually finding a good, chaste, Catholic wife?

I have read around 108 studies relating either fully or tangentially to the matter of pre-marital sex and its effect on marriages; am I wrong to worry about this? Am I allowed to worry about this? Is this something that I should not be considering? What are optimal resolutions? Can any good come of my concern? Are there things (specific knowledge, in this case) that could allay my concerns? Should I just remain with my original goal?

I will have completed my Master’s degree next Spring, after which I wish to make a choice on the path I choose. I’m in my early twenties, if that matters. And, if my mind were not ill-at-ease enough, many people around me consider “extremely eligible” for marriage (their words; if only they knew my dilemma). sigh

 

[WoundedIcon]

I wouldn’t be all PC and say it’s something wrong for you to worry about - I’m 22 and I do too, but unlike you I’m in no position for marriage right now. However, like any other sin, it can be forgiven and cleansed so I wouldn’t worry too much. Obviously you don’t want to get involved with a woman who hasn’t repented, but if she’s, well… done it… and doesn’t want to again till marriage, these days that’s a keeper. Just be careful that you don’t cross the line into thinking they’re all soiled goods or something. Once you fall in love, so long as she’s chaste now, in all reality you won’t give a rat’s butt about it anymore. I’m the type who would love to marry a virgin, but when I feel love for someone, well… love covers over a multitude of sins.

 

[Irishmom2]

I wouldn’t be all PC and say it’s something wrong for you to worry about - I’m 22 and I do too, but unlike you I’m in no position for marriage right now. However, like any other sin, it can be forgiven and cleansed so I wouldn’t worry too much. Obviously you don’t want to get involved with a woman who hasn’t repented, but if she’s, well… done it… and doesn’t want to again till marriage, these days that’s a keeper. Just be careful that you don’t cross the line into thinking they’re all soiled goods or something. Once you fall in love, so long as she’s chaste now, in all reality you won’t give a rat’s butt about it anymore. I’m the type who would love to marry a virgin, but when I feel love for someone, well… love covers over a multitude of sins.

I read the original post without reading this response, and had my thoughts all ready to say the same exact thing.

OP, please check out the chastity link on this site, and read about Jason Evert’s wife. You will see that even those that have failed at some point, are forgiven and can become the model of perfection in a spouse. Please don’t cross the line into thinking you can judge a woman solely by what she has done in the past and when she may not have known better at the time.

 

[The_Bucket]

Even if she DID know better, it’s still not a reason to hold it against her if God isn’t. Certainly God is quicker to forgive than any human being and I wouldn’t advocate say, being A-OK with a cheating spouse/significant other if he or she went to confession, but that’s not the case here. You’re talking about a phenomenon by the way that while recent for women, isn’t recent for men. In centuries past how many men do you think were virgins before they were married? Women of status were more cloistered from the world in that regard but men certainly were not, especially men of high status when they came across lower-status women.

My point is that brokenness in this area is far from a modern phenomenon but there have nevertheless been plenty of good and holy marriages.

 

[AthenaC]

Just be careful that you don’t cross the line into thinking they’re all soiled goods or something. Once you fall in love, so long as she’s chaste now, in all reality you won’t give a rat’s butt about it anymore.

This exemplifies a brand of charity that is very hard to find, even (especially?) here in the Catholic world. Men in particular seem to struggle with seeing non-virginal women as being “soiled” and thus unworthy of marriage, which in truth objectifies women far more than our sex-saturated media ever could.

Now, having said that, you are well within your rights to prioritize virginity if that is important to you. But please consider that if a woman has had sex before, it could actually be a good sign. It means she has a sex drive and will be more than comfortable expressing that to you in marriage. Your risk of a sexless marriage is quite low if you marry someone who likes sex.

 

[Schieffelin]

I’m not entirely sure how I can convey my thoughts on this matter, nor whether they will come across as unrestrained fanaticism, but I will try regardless.

I came across this piece of information: “By their early 20s, some 79% of never-married women—and 89% of never-married Catholic women—have had sex.” (Source: guttmacher.org/media/inthenews/2012/02/15/index.html).

Now, I’m usually distraught and despairing on matters of culture and social mores (I have only recently considered changing my mind on my lifelong goal of becoming an anchorite), but with this piece of information having been exhibited, I ask: what would the chances of me (or any person who has lived their life in an utmost chaste manner) actually finding a good, chaste, Catholic wife?

I have read around 108 studies relating either fully or tangentially to the matter of pre-marital sex and its effect on marriages; am I wrong to worry about this? Am I allowed to worry about this? Is this something that I should not be considering? What are optimal resolutions? Can any good come of my concern? Are there things (specific knowledge, in this case) that could allay my concerns? Should I just remain with my original goal?

I will have completed my Master’s degree next Spring, after which I wish to make a choice on the path I choose. I’m in my early twenties, if that matters. And, if my mind were not ill-at-ease enough, many people around me consider “extremely eligible” for marriage (their words; if only they knew my dilemma). sigh

Just wanted to add you shouldn’t trust any statistics by the Guttmacher Institute. They are the “research” branch of Planned Parenthood and they basically find ways to make the statistics say whatever they want them to say. They recently also came out with that study saying that 98% of Catholic women use birth control (or something along those lines) but it turns out they weren’t surveying women who actually go to church and put some effort into their faith.

 

[Pink_Lemonade]

But please consider that if a woman has had sex before, it could actually be a good sign. It means she has a sex drive and will be more than comfortable expressing that to you in marriage. Your risk of a sexless marriage is quite low if you marry someone who likes sex.

Um, this is really not a good yardstick to use, OP. Plenty of women who were virgins until they were married have perfectly healthy sex drives, and just because a woman has had sex does not mean that she automatically “has a sex drive” or that your “risk of a sexless marriage” will be low.

In any case, I do not think it’s wrong to prefer to marry a virgin. That is the ideal, after all. However, as you mentioned, the numbers are not in your favor. It’s your right if you choose to make it a deal-breaker, but do consider that there are very good Catholic women who have made mistakes and now live chastely.

You’ve read 108 studies? And counted them? I think you are possibly a little too fixated on the issue, and I am curious about the studies’ conclusions- in what ways does pre-marital sex influence marriages? (I am not debating that it does, just wondering.) Did any of the studies use a person’s feelings toward their pre-marital sex as a mediating variable? While research is good and useful, relying on it too much to make big life decisions can be problematic. I would urge you to focus on finding a spouse whose main concern in getting you and your children to heaven, and then consider all the other things after that. Only you can decide where your line is, but I can tell you from experience that it is possible to have a beautiful and holy marriage with someone who was not a virgin.

 

[bonvivantHermit]

I read this post as if you want a set of morals (say bronzed and on a shelf) rather than a person. And frankly you sound confused- to be charitable- being an anchorite for one is not done to remove oneself from the immoral world- if it’s for that reason, you’re wrongly motivated.

Do you question the forgiveness God grants? I’d concentrate on yourself, before you start judging sins of yet known woman.

 

[Mangaartist]

I’d say, trust God that if you are called to marriage, you will find a spouse, and just discern where you’re called in life. I know that is easier said than done, but if we based all our choices on fear about their feasibility, our lives would be pretty sad.

Also, totally agreed with everyone who said that mistakes in the past are just that – in the past. I did things I’m not proud of when I was a teenager and naive and thought I knew everything. Knowing that God forgave me eased my guilt a lot, until I met my now-fiance, when I started feeling guilty again, but he forgave me too, and man do I feel blessed! It’s important to remember that we’re all broken and in need of forgiveness. However, there are women out there who embraced sexual morality all their lives, it’s not impossible to find someone like that (even though that may be how it seems). But if someone has truly changed their ways, it may be an unfair bar to set.

 

[Stratocatholic]

Even if she DID know better, it’s still not a reason to hold it against her if God isn’t. Certainly God is quicker to forgive than any human being and I wouldn’t advocate say, being A-OK with a cheating spouse/significant other if he or she went to confession, but that’s not the case here. You’re talking about a phenomenon by the way that while recent for women, isn’t recent for men. In centuries past how many men do you think were virgins before they were married? Women of status were more cloistered from the world in that regard but men certainly were not, especially men of high status when they came across lower-status women.

My point is that brokenness in this area is far from a modern phenomenon but there have nevertheless been plenty of good and holy marriages.

So more men used to have sex in the past than women?

 

[AthenaC]

Um, this is really not a good yardstick to use, OP. Plenty of women who were virgins until they were married have perfectly healthy sex drives, and just because a woman has had sex does not mean that she automatically “has a sex drive” or that your “risk of a sexless marriage” will be low.

Yeah, I will admit I worded that kinda poorly. I think you made my point better - sexual experience (or lack thereof) isn’t really an indication of anything other than … sexual experience. But as I did state earlier, it will be the OP’s marriage and it is his prerogative to look for a virgin if that is what he wants.

 

[AthenaC]

So more men used to have sex in the past than women?

I believe that was the point, yes. And it perpetuates the misconception that women are either: 1) virginal angels; or 2) disease-ridden sluts. No in-between. No room in this ideology for women with a healthy sex drive who may have had a partner or two (or several) who is more than happy to commit to a beautiful, monogamous relationship.

But anyway, I think we’re getting off-track here.

 

[Stratocatholic]

On a serious note, I think that the poster is right to be concerned and aware. We live in the times we live in and they are what they are. He’s young and young people think about these things and it’s going to effect him. He has a right to think about something, as a practicing Catholic, which once he marries into, will effect him the rest of his life. Yes, having sex before marriage is a sin and yes, God does forgive those sins. Once forgiven, that sin is gone, however, only per her relationship with God. The effect of the sin upon her life experience is still real. Sex with any person changes you. I am 39, single and still waiting and still looking. I’ve had to evaluate whether a person’s past matters to me or not. Sometimes I’ve been able to look past mistakes to move forward and sometimes not. In either event I’m still single. I think that the important thing is that people are honest with each other, and how they view their own pasts and mistakes and sins. I certainly would not say that having sex before marriage is ever a good sign. Having sex before marriage is not an indicator of a strong sex drive and more importantly it may be an indication of an improperly ordered sex drive. Most premarital sex is not committed to with an aim towards family. I think it’s important on the whole however, to be aware, informed, honest, and to view people on the whole as to what each others expectations are in the relationship and where they are in their faith. If anyone tried to pressure you into anything other than a proper sex life in a committed marriage before God with an aim towards children and a family, kindly but resolutely show them the door.

 

[PatriceA]

Just wanted to add you shouldn’t trust any statistics by the Guttmacher Institute. They are the “research” branch of Planned Parenthood and they basically find ways to make the statistics say whatever they want them to say. They recently also came out with that study saying that 98% of Catholic women use birth control (or something along those lines) but it turns out they weren’t surveying women who actually go to church and put some effort into their faith.

This was my first thought.

I would concentrate more on discerning my vocation and then discerning a potential spouse rather than concentrating on that person being a statistic or not. You could meet a potential spouse that is a virgin but have none of the other qualities you desire in a spouse OR you could meet a potential spouse that is now living a very chaste life and was tempted in the past but is your ideal in every other way. We all sin, you’re not going to meet a potential spouse that hasn’t been tempted in some area of sin or sinful nature. You have to decide though how much of their past sins would affect your future together. I would just caution you not to get fixated on just one part of someone’s past but see the whole person and how they have addressed their past and are now living in the present.