Worrying blog post from Father Z

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…WHICH WERE THERE WITHOUT IDOLATROUS INTENTIONS…’
Which is not the same as saying “there was no idolatry”. Someone can accidentally run someone over with their car even though they never intended to do so.
Also please read this too
Ah, the Sibyls! Here’s an article for you:

https://www.fisheaters.com/sibyls.html
“These women, albeit shrouded in mystery and wonderful, fantastical tales, remind us that the Church teaches that actual grace and the natural virtues exist outside of Her, and that Christians are to honor Truth no matter whence it comes in the temporal realm. That the majority of Church Fathers adopted a form of Platonism, considering the philosopher an ally against naturalism and materiaism, that St. Thomas Aquinas and the Scholastics who followed used the Truths spoken by Aristotle for the same, that medieval Catholic civilization revered the “Nine Worthies” 5 – three of whom were pagan, three of whom were Old Testament Jewish – as the embodiment of chivalry – these things remind us that arrogance and spiritual pride have no place in a Catholic’s life. While there is an “us” and a “them” with regard to sanctifying grace, there is no “us” and “them” with regard to actual grace and the natural virtues. Further, we can’t presume to know who’s been blessed by sanctifying grace – i.e., we can’t know who the “them” is in that regard; we can only know who is formally outside of the Church and, therefore, whom we need to evangelize – in all charity and prudence – and pray for.
Treat all men with charity, honor Truth wherever it is, and live a deeply Catholic life. “Spread the Gospel and let God sort 'em out.” This is all we can do.”
So, what truth does Pachamama represent? Where in the Catechism does it hold a symbol on the same level as the reverence we give to God, Mary, and the Saints?
 
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Maybe there are many other reasons why this Pope is so controversial and unpopular in USA
Ah, of course, we just “hate” Pope Francis because he’s so pastoral. It’s ironic that it says he’s hated because he’s fighting against Clericalism when he just called a Synod of bishops whose working document was primarily devoted to ecology, a concern which could be dealt with as an initiative of lay people and not bishops. No, we just sit around dreaming of the day that Pope Francis is seen bowing towards pagan idols and putting them on altars in a church over the course of a single Synod, all the while ignoring the Dubia from four Cardinals submitted years ago, and calling Catholics who have prayed and sacrificed time, money, and prayers, and staying within parishes and communities in good canonical standing, to have traditions and a rite that was the norm of the Church until 50 years ago “rigid”.

Do you think Traditionalists actually wanted this? Do you think they’re looking at this with sick glee? All because we just think he’s too nice to the poor and environment and we’re too caught up in American politics?

Wow.
 
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The “working document” was really all the evidence that was needed. The statues were a confirmation, and the bowls are just icing on the cake. There is no spin left that can be offered to explain away all of this evidence. As far as I am concerned, the case is closed on the Amazon Synod. People are going to believe what they want to believe. Free will in action. That is fine. Christ told the disciples to bypass villages where their message was not welcome. The wood on the alter did not catch fire. Time to move on.
 
In fact, traditionalists hate him so much, that’s why the SSPX (who really hate him) are offering Masses in reparation for the idolatry at the Synod instead of, say, his death, that’s why Traditionalists followed Bishop Schneider’s and another bishop’s request to fast one day for each of the weeks of the Synod and pray one decade of the rosary for it, and that same hate is why some are continuing to fast and offer up their own reparations for what happened instead of, say, his death, that’s why there’s another movement going on right now promoted by Pope Francis-hating Fr. Z asking for prayers for the deceased and the Church. Because we “hate” Pope Francis.
 
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Ezk: 18:2 “'The parents eat sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge”
 
So this concerns the actions of someone with the title ‘Pontiff Maximus’, originally that of an, um, pagan high priest in Rome. There is a very, very long history of Catholic adoption of elements of other religions and their adaptation to Catholic belief.

I would also take with large grain salt any suggestion that indigenous people ‘worship’ in their traditional religions. ‘Worship’ is a peculiarly Judea-Christian-Islamic practice without many direct parallels in other religions generally, and certainly not in the religions of indigenous peoples. It is in any case very difficult for Christians to distinguish between ‘worship’, ‘praise’, ‘glorification’, etc. And I have yet to find evidence outside the Bible accounts of non-Jewish practice, or people who ‘worship’ an ‘idol’ in the belief that it is itself God.
 
So this concerns the actions of someone with the title ‘Pontiff Maximus’, originally that of an, um, pagan high priest in Rome.
Umm… ‘pontiff maximus’ means “greatest priest”. Are you really trying to make the case that, since there were religions that chronologically preceded the Christian Church, therefore her use of the term “priest” is adoption of a ‘pagan term’? :roll_eyes:
And I have yet to find evidence outside the Bible accounts of non-Jewish practice, or people who ‘worship’ an ‘idol’ in the belief that it is itself God.
Apparently, you haven’t examined the practices of ancient Egyptians, who worshipped animals as literal manifestations of gods.

Nor have you examined cultures who worshipped the sun, moon, or stars as gods.

Are you certain that you’ve conducted a reasonable search for evidence of idol worship? 🤔
 
Umm… ‘pontiff maximus’ means “greatest priest”. Are you really trying to make the case that, since there were religions that chronologically preceded the Christian Church, therefore her use of the term “priest” is adoption of a ‘pagan term’? :roll_eyes:
Yes!
And I have yet to find evidence outside the Bible accounts of non-Jewish practice, or people who ‘worship’ an ‘idol’ in the belief that it is itself God.
Yes!..
 
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Gorgias:
Are you really trying to make the case that, since there were religions that chronologically preceded the Christian Church, therefore her use of the term “priest” is adoption of a ‘pagan term’? :roll_eyes:
Yes!
Trivial claim, then. Your claim devolves into “any usage with non-null etymology is a usage that presumes the same context as the prior usage.” That’s just bunk. Basically, you’re saying that we all are just Proto-Indo-European pagans. Good luck with that idea. 🤣
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FiveLinden:
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Gorgias:
Are you certain that you’ve conducted a reasonable search for evidence of idol worship?
Yes!..
Then you’re just plain mistaken. Have a wonderful evening. 😉
 
The overwhelming response I’ve had about this synod and the things I’ve been seeing has been pretty simple: “who asked for this?”

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That said, I’m not especially anxious. This too shall pass.
 
Or, they don’t hate HH, and simply love Christ the King and the Church.

One cannot dismiss those who are scandalized as radical. If it was just Sedes, SSPX, and independents it would appear this issue may be just an excuse to criticize HH. But mainstream clergy are scandalized as well.

That is the difference in this case.
 
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@MagdalenaRita @CradleRC58

Ok, here some pictures during Mass
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