"Worship"

[exnihilo]

I think as a Christian Church, to tell people that they must eat or abstain from eating on certain days; or refrain from certain types of foods on certain days is indeed what Paul wrote against this line of thinking makes the belief unbiblical.

When Paul says to the members of the Catholic Christian Church “don’t let anyone look down on you in matters of food (do not taste, touch)” he means it. So I think it’s wrong for the Church to look down on its members if they do not accept that they must eat fish on a certain day, or abstain on a certain day. I truly believe that Paul wrote against this way of thinking.

I think your interpretation may be missing the context in which the words were written. Paul was writing to the Romans in large part to contend with Jewish converts to Christianity. These Jews then faced problems after they converted where some wanted to uphold the old dietary requirements. I think a reasonable understanding of these passages in Romans and Colossians is that Paul is warning against judging people by the old dietary requirements and other rules of Judaism.

 

[Telstar]

I understand, but that doesn’t exactly answer my question.

Would ‘worshiping’ a different Saint in the way that Catholics worship Mary be a sin?

This isn’t a gotcha question, I’m genuinely curious. (Though expect follow ups)

The only reason Catholics have to define those terms when we talk about prayer, is because non-Catholics seem to think we could get confused between the Saints (human beings) and God.

Catholics are taught to pray, almost from the time we learn to talk. Basically, it’s the same thing. The only difference is that the person we’re praying to, is technically not a member of our earthly family, or friends. It’s just as natural as learning the language our family speaks, and talking to them. The only real difference, is in learning how we show proper respect whenever we pray to God, or Mary, or the angels and Saints. But, that has more to do with learning proper manners, than it does about prayer, itself.

We really don’t consider the Saints to be equal to Mary, even though they’re similar. We call her the Blessed Mother, or Our Lady, to show the distinction between them. Mary is Our Mother, and the Saints are more like our siblings. That’s the real difference. We certainly don’t consider Mary to be equal to God, by any stretch of the imagination.

Catholics also tend to distinguish between the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost during specific prayers, or we just refer to Him as God when speaking in general, or maybe the Holy Trinity. For anyone to think that Catholics could ever get confused between them, is like my thinking you could get confused between talking to your parents, or your siblings, or your aunts, uncles, cousins and friends. Do you ever get confused about who you’re talking to? Do you tend to show each of them a different level of respect, without really thinking about it? Why do you?

We grow up doing it, so it’s almost impossible for us to get confused, or to “go too far”. It’s really hard to explain it to someone that’s never learned it. We just automatically know the difference, because that’s just the way it is. I can’t imagine how anyone could get confused between the way you’re supposed to pray to the Saints, or to Mary, or to God. It makes no sense for Catholics to ever get confused about it.

I have no clue if it’s a sin, because it’s never come up, or even crossed my mind. I think most Catholics would have a hard time answering that question. I don’t think I’ve ever even heard anyone discuss it. At least, not any Catholics that I know.

Absolutely we must honor our Mother and Father, and we do as Christians. It’s still a commandment yesterday, today and forever. However again getting back to the language we must separate ‘honor’ from ‘worship’ should we not? So again, how do we know we’re not taking things too far?

Maybe if someone falls prostrate on the floor whenever their mother or father enters the room, they might be going a tad overboard. I really have no idea how to respond to a question like that. How would you respond to it? What would you consider to be “taking things too far”? Praying to your dad, and begging him not to make you take out the garbage? Praying to him and expecting him to give you a million dollars, even though you know he doesn’t have a penny in the bank?

Is it possible to put so much faith in one’s Mother/Father that we begin to Worship him/her? Not as God, but just in a way that would be too far and therefore sinful.

I’ve never heard of anyone actually worshiping a human parent in modern times, but anything’s possible. I don’t think we can ever really go too far in honoring our parents, unless they want us to do something evil, like kill someone. But, I was specifically referring to the respect due to Mary, who we’ve already agreed is our Mother. But, Catholics are taught that there’s a huge difference between any human being, and God, so there should never be any confusion between the two.

As special to me as she is to Jesus? No, I don’t think God would object to that.

He’s more likely to object if you don’t think she’s special to you.

That’s actually an excellent question! It made me smile a bit because we have Mary in our Bible too. And Evangelicals and Catholics will both agree that Mary points to Jesus. Mary says “Look to God!” and her soul doth magnify the Lord.

Mary does lead us to Jesus. We also know that if we ever need anything, like the groom that ran out of wine at the wedding, she’ll talk to Jesus and ask Him to help us, too. What do you think she says to us, when we want or need something? “Do whatever He tells, you.” She’s telling us to truly follow Him. Mary never does anything on her own, but she asks Jesus, because she knows He has that power. When she asks, He always listens, because He loves her.

Therefore, Mary would show great delight in that Evangelicals use her example and put much greater emphasis on God. Mary points us to God, so we look to God, and God would find much pleasure in that we obey Mary by showing great honor and Worship to our Lord, God and Savior. Don’t you agree? I do recognize that this is a very Catholic thing to do in that everything Catholics do for Mary is actually done for God.

God knows that making Mary happy is not your intention. He might even see it as an insult, because He knows you purposely ignore her.

Catholics are also taught to give credit, where credit is due. God loves it when we recognize His intricate work in what’s been accomplished by those who love Him. This gives Him even greater Glory, because He made them who they are, and inspired them to strive toward becoming more holy, because He is Holy. So, when we honor them, we also honor Him for all that He accomplished, through their actions.

 

[Cavaradossi]

My point is that Jesus tells us “when you fast” and tells us “how to fast.” And the manner in which Evangelicals fast is the manner in which Jesus told us to. We don’t hold fast days, and let everyone know we’re fasting; rather we do it in secret so that you’ll never know about it. Again, it’s avoiding this asceticism and self made Religion.

I disagree. The religious milieu in which Jesus historically preached and lived had seasons and days when fasting might have been done by custom, though it was not always compulsory. Some Jews, for example, had the custom of fasting on Mondays and Thursdays, something referenced in Luke 18:12 and more explicitly referenced in the Didache.

Participation in the fasting seasons prescribed by the church calendar does not transgress what the Lord commanded concerning fasting, as the Lord’s words concern not those who fast and pray as a means of drawing near to God, but rather those who fast as a means of finding worldly glory. Would you truly be willing to condemn all of those who fast simply because they do so at the times recommended by the Church?

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

I disagree. The religious milieu in which Jesus historically preached and lived had seasons and days when fasting might have been done by custom, though it was not always compulsory. Some Jews, for example, had the custom of fasting on Mondays and Thursdays, something referenced in Luke 18:12 and more explicitly referenced in the Didache.

Participation in the fasting seasons prescribed by the church calendar does not transgress what the Lord commanded concerning fasting, as the Lord’s words concern not those who fast and pray as a means of drawing near to God, but rather those who fast as a means of finding worldly glory. Would you truly be willing to condemn all of those who fast simply because they do so at the times recommended by the Church?

He is not condemning those who fast and abstain by recommendation of the Church. He has said he does not. His concern is that the Church places some observances as required under the penalty of sin. He believes this contradicts St. Paul’s words about not letting others look down on you for not doing what they do in regards to abstaining from certain foods and observing certain festivals and so forth.

 

[dronald]

Ok, I understand you better now that I read that

I have explained my position the best I can. Your question actually made me want to look into it a little for myself and I truly believe that nowhere is scripture conflicted (IMO) because we have a example of The Church commanding meat sacrificed to other gods and strangled animals not to be eaten in the book of acts. This was in the first counsel of Jerusalem. St. Paul was even there. Well, it looks like Paul’s words were contradicted there because NOTHING is supposed to be “unclean” and we are not supposed to look down on others for what they do or do not eat. BUT, here we have The Apostles using their binding and loosing authority to command something be Abstained from. Now can you imagine the early Christians saying “Oh, no. St Paul said not to let other people look down on us for what we eat. It cannot be a sin. And if the other apostles say it is a sin to eat meat sacrificed to another god, they are wrong.” and then ignoring the authority of The Church? Or would Christ want us to obey the apostles, as he left them in charge? The Apostles did not conflict each other and neither does The Catholic Church contradict scripture, St Paul’s words were warning the early Christians against The Gnostic’s and their beliefs about rituals and certain foods. It must be understood in context.

I do agree that context is key of course, and I don’t believe that Acts 15 contradicts Paul’s instructions. Actually I would say the opposite that Acts 15 speaks in favor of Paul’s instructions and I wouldn’t say that anything Paul wrote abrogated or “loosed” the teachings on eating the meat of strangled animals.

Let’s look at what Paul taught on the topic of eating food being offered in a way that was consistent with pagan practice:

1 Corin 8:7 However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. 9 But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? 11 And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. 12 Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. 13** Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.
**

You see here that the context of why we ought to abstain from foods is completely different than what we have been discussing. Paul in fact says that he would never eat meat if his brother would stumble.

1 Corin 10:27 If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience. 28 But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience— 29 I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else’s conscience? 30 If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks?

Again, we ought to abstain from this meat for the conscience of our brother; which again is off topic from what we’re discussing. What you’re seeming to say is that at one point James taught that we ought to abstain and then Paul changed that teaching; which I don’t think is true at all. James taught that (with Paul present as you say) things should be written to them that they should abstain from such things. Well indeed we have these writings, and the context of what James and Paul meant.

15:20 but should** write to them** to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.

All this said, it doesn’t change the fact that the Bible remains contextually true still today. So again, when Paul says that one may not look down on another in terms of eating certain foods or observing certain days; it still applies today. It applied 2000 years ago with the Jews, and Gentiles, but also applies today with Christians.

See Romans 14 as well: “As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.”

And

5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

Again, Paul wants no one to quarrel or look down on others over days and foods, and this one is referring those in Rome. I’ve also pointed out that Paul saw his letters as Scripture and wanted them read in different Church’s and even condemned those who don’t.

 

[dronald]

I think your interpretation may be missing the context in which the words were written. Paul was writing to the Romans in large part to contend with Jewish converts to Christianity. These Jews then faced problems after they converted where some wanted to uphold the old dietary requirements. I think a reasonable understanding of these passages in Romans and Colossians is that Paul is warning against judging people by the old dietary requirements and other rules of Judaism.

His context he gives has to do with things that “have an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.”

 

[dronald]

The only reason Catholics have to define those terms when we talk about prayer, is because non-Catholics seem to think we could get confused between the Saints (human beings) and God.

Catholics are taught to pray, almost from the time we learn to talk. Basically, it’s the same thing. The only difference is that the person we’re praying to, is technically not a member of our earthly family, or friends. It’s just as natural as learning the language our family speaks, and talking to them. The only real difference, is in learning how we show proper respect whenever we pray to God, or Mary, or the angels and Saints. But, that has more to do with learning proper manners, than it does about prayer, itself.

We really don’t consider the Saints to be equal to Mary, even though they’re similar. We call her the Blessed Mother, or Our Lady, to show the distinction between them. Mary is Our Mother, and the Saints are more like our siblings. That’s the real difference. We certainly don’t consider Mary to be equal to God, by any stretch of the imagination.

Catholics also tend to distinguish between the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost during specific prayers, or we just refer to Him as God when speaking in general, or maybe the Holy Trinity. For anyone to think that Catholics could ever get confused between them, is like my thinking you could get confused between talking to your parents, or your siblings, or your aunts, uncles, cousins and friends. Do you ever get confused about who you’re talking to? Do you tend to show each of them a different level of respect, without really thinking about it? Why do you?

We grow up doing it, so it’s almost impossible for us to get confused, or to “go too far”. It’s really hard to explain it to someone that’s never learned it. We just automatically know the difference, because that’s just the way it is. I can’t imagine how anyone could get confused between the way you’re supposed to pray to the Saints, or to Mary, or to God. It makes no sense for Catholics to ever get confused about it.

I appreciate the effort in the responses you’re giving, as I am learning a lot. Even though I come here often and post often, I always wind up getting a better idea of what Catholics believe, especially in how it relates to their thoughts/feelings during their time at Church, and not just Theological matters.

The entire time I read what you’ve posted above I kept thinking in my mind how difficult then it seems for new believers entering the Church, and then what I have bolded really drove that thought home. It is rather confusing to those entering the Church, and I think that could be considered a problem. Saying that we pray to Mary a certain way, and afford her a certain type of “worship” that is higher than others, but we don’t really worship her or anyone else; just God is confusing.

I have no clue if it’s a sin, because it’s never come up, or even crossed my mind. I think most Catholics would have a hard time answering that question. I don’t think I’ve ever even heard anyone discuss it. At least, not any Catholics that I know.

Well, how much reverence we give to another, whether Saint, Mother, friend, or God Himself is important to us. Because we don’t want to place to much faith in another that it becomes a sign of worship for that person. We don’t want to worship a person, Saint, friend, anyone. Only God.

 

[dronald]

Maybe if someone falls prostrate on the floor whenever their mother or father enters the room, they might be going a tad overboard. I really have no idea how to respond to a question like that. How would you respond to it? What would you consider to be “taking things too far”? Praying to your dad, and begging him not to make you take out the garbage? Praying to him and expecting him to give you a million dollars, even though you know he doesn’t have a penny in the bank?

I actually don’t quite know myself also. When it comes to God, I sign hymns, I say thanks, I give praise, and I pray. When it comes to Mary, my friends, my family, whomever I too thank as a sign of respect for any good deeds done. Then when I read of these different levels of reverence or “worship” for different Saints, it becomes very confusing to me…

I’ve never heard of anyone actually worshiping a human parent in modern times, but anything’s possible. I don’t think we can ever really go too far in honoring our parents, unless they want us to do something evil, like kill someone. But, I was specifically referring to the respect due to Mary, who we’ve already agreed is our Mother. But, Catholics are taught that there’s a huge difference between any human being, and God, so there should never be any confusion between the two.

That’s good. But it seems they’re taught there’s a massive difference in the reverence shown between Mary and others as you have said.

He’s more likely to object if you don’t think she’s special to you.

Well yes, she’s special of course.

Mary does lead us to Jesus. We also know that if we ever need anything, like the groom that ran out of wine at the wedding, she’ll talk to Jesus and ask Him to help us, too. What do you think she says to us, when we want or need something? “Do whatever He tells, you.” She’s telling us to truly follow Him. Mary never does anything on her own, but she asks Jesus, because she knows He has that power. When she asks, He always listens, because He loves her.

Indeed. As I said we do agree on these points in a way.

God knows that making Mary happy is not your intention. He might even see it as an insult, because He knows you purposely ignore her.

That you’re right about (not the ignoring part). Making Mary happy is not my intention; my intention is to please God, which would in turn make Mary happy.

Catholics are also taught to give credit, where credit is due. God loves it when we recognize His intricate work in what’s been accomplished by those who love Him. This gives Him even greater Glory, because He made them who they are, and inspired them to strive toward becoming more holy, because He is Holy. So, when we honor them, we also honor Him for all that He accomplished, through their actions.

Honor again seems like a much better word than “worship”.

 

[ahs]

I apologize if this has already been discussed (I only skimmed). In 2Kngs 4, what does the Scripture say about whether the widow went too far in paying homage to Elisha (cf. 2Kng 4:37)?

The word for “bowed down” (“shachah” in Greek) is the same exact word used to reference people bowing down in worship to God and even to pagan gods in the OT. IT also is used to describe people giving due reverence to fellow humans (kings, for example). It occurs some 500+ times in the OT. Some translations use the word “worship” or “prostrate”.

Bowing facedown to someone while falling at their feet certainly has the outward appearance of “worship”, doesn’t it? What does the Bible say of this woman who did this act to Elisha?

ETA: 1Chron 29:20 is even more explicit.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

I do agree that context is key of course, and I don’t believe that Acts 15 contradicts Paul’s instructions. Actually I would say the opposite that Acts 15 speaks in favor of Paul’s instructions and I wouldn’t say that anything Paul wrote abrogated or “loosed” the teachings on eating the meat of strangled animals.

Let’s look at what Paul taught on the topic of eating food being offered in a way that was consistent with pagan practice:

1 Corin 8:7 However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. 9 But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? 11 And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. 12 Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. 13** Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.
**

You see here that the context of why we ought to abstain from foods is completely different than what we have been discussing. Paul in fact says that he would never eat meat if his brother would stumble.

1 Corin 10:27 If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience. 28 But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience— 29 I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else’s conscience? 30 If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks?

Again, we ought to abstain from this meat for the conscience of our brother; which again is off topic from what we’re discussing. What you’re seeming to say is that at one point James taught that we ought to abstain and then Paul changed that teaching; which I don’t think is true at all. James taught that (with Paul present as you say) things should be written to them that they should abstain from such things. Well indeed we have these writings, and the context of what James and Paul meant.

15:20 but should** write to them** to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.

All this said, it doesn’t change the fact that the Bible remains contextually true still today. So again, when Paul says that one may not look down on another in terms of eating certain foods or observing certain days; it still applies today. It applied 2000 years ago with the Jews, and Gentiles, but also applies today with Christians.

See Romans 14 as well: “As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.”

And

5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

Again, Paul wants no one to quarrel or look down on others over days and foods, and this one is referring those in Rome. I’ve also pointed out that Paul saw his letters as Scripture and wanted them read in different Church’s and even condemned those who don’t.

Just how you said you get frustrated that Catholics cannot see contradiction that you see, I feel the same way that you do not see the last point I made the way I do It is like we each have a mind of our own lol. It is ok. We are not condemning each other so this is good dialogue.

Ok, here is what I think. God still wants us to obey The Church (I am of the opinion That The Church will not bind something on us in error. Nothing will change my mind about that) . If a parent says to a teenager “You are grounded. You cannot go out with your friends” but the child does it anyways, the sin is not in going out with their friends. That is not a sin. The sin is in disobedience. The Church makes certain obligations to help us, not stifle us. I believe scripture is not contradicted and The Church is within its rights to do so. Not to mention the recorded history of The Early Church practicing lent fasts. I just do not know if it was obligatory or optional. But my guess is that when The early Bishops bound something, they did so for the good of The Church and I choose to obey. They are not asking us to commit sin. They are asking us to give up something for penance. That is good for us. I think St. Paul would tell The Church to obey and I believe God wants us to obey. That is my position. Others might have a different view.

 

[exnihilo]

His context he gives has to do with things that “have an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.”

I don’t think the Catholic understanding is disqualified by that verse.

16 Therefore do not let anyone condemn you in matters of food and drink or of observing festivals, new moons, or sabbaths. 17 These are only a shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

Shadows of what is to come seems to be consistent with the understanding that the Jewish rules are what is in question. They were a shadow of what was to come.

20 If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the universe, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations, 21 “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch”? 22 All these regulations refer to things that perish with use; they are simply human commands and teachings. 23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-imposed piety, humility, and severe treatment of the body, but they are of no value in checking self-indulgence.

The verses immediately before what you cited I think suggest this was referring to Jewish food laws.

Well, how much reverence we give to another, whether Saint, Mother, friend, or God Himself is important to us. Because we don’t want to place to much faith in another that it becomes a sign of worship for that person. We don’t want to worship a person, Saint, friend, anyone. Only God.

We don’t want to worship a person but I still think we haven’t defined our terms well enough to disqualify venerating saints. What is worship? What is the worship due God alone? If we are clear on definitions we can judge Catholic practice against that. But until we do so all a man can say is he is uncomfortable with or dislikes some practice. That doesn’t make it worship.

 

[Telstar]

I appreciate the effort in the responses you’re giving, as I am learning a lot. Even though I come here often and post often, I always wind up getting a better idea of what Catholics believe, especially in how it relates to their thoughts/feelings during their time at Church, and not just Theological matters.

Thanks. That’s the whole purpose of this forum. If we can dispel some of the “myths” that many people on the “outside” have heard that the CC teaches or believes, then we can gain a much better understanding of each other through this kind of dialogue.

The entire time I read what you’ve posted above I kept thinking in my mind how difficult then it seems for new believers entering the Church, and then what I have bolded really drove that thought home. It is rather confusing to those entering the Church, and I think that could be considered a problem. Saying that we pray to Mary a certain way, and afford her a certain type of “worship” that is higher than others, but we don’t really worship her or anyone else; just God is confusing.

I realize that people coming into the Church will need help understanding these kinds of things. Hopefully, if they have any questions or concerns about the Catholic view of prayer and petition, especially concerning Mary and the Saints, that they would bring them up for discussion in their RCIA classes.

It’s really not all that difficult to understand, if you think about the Catholic Church as one big family. We are all members of the family of God. Some of us are still here on earth, some are in Purgatory and the rest are already in Heaven with our Father, Mother, and a whole bunch of our siblings. Even those who have already passed on, are still very much alive in Christ.

It may help you understand the Catholic concept of praying to Saints, by thinking of it as talking to your extended family members in Heaven, as if you were calling them on the phone. Perhaps they’re not able to answer your call, so it might get picked up by an “answering machine”, where you can leave them a long detailed message. Or, maybe it’s a bad connection and you can’t hear them, but you know they can always hear you. You can tell them you love them, thank them for helping you with a recent problem, or ask them for help with something else that’s been weighing on your heart.

Even if they can’t call you back, they will always ask God for the favor of doing whatever He can to help you. He likes to do special favors for all of His children that love Him, so it can’t hurt to have them asking Him to help you, too. In the meantime, you should always talk directly to Him, too. He’ll get the message that you really need His help, loud and clear.

It’s always a good idea to have a lot of different people praying for you, even in this life. The more people that can pray for you, the better the chances of getting what you need, right? Isn’t that why there are things like ‘prayer lines’ where you can call friends, who will call their friends and spread the word to pray for someone, or something urgent that might be happening in your life? We pray (talk) to the Saints, to ask them to pray to God for us.

Well, how much reverence we give to another, whether Saint, Mother, friend, or God Himself is important to us. Because we don’t want to place to much faith in another that it becomes a sign of worship for that person. We don’t want to worship a person, Saint, friend, anyone. Only God.

Very true. But, we need to remember that we’re all members of the family of God, and the Body of Christ, who are all taught to support each other in our walk of faith. Then we will easily understand the dynamics of a real family, working together and doing things as any family would do. We don’t ‘worship’ our family members. We just love them all because we love God, and He loved us, first.

I actually don’t quite know myself also. When it comes to God, I sign hymns, I say thanks, I give praise, and I pray. When it comes to Mary, my friends, my family, whomever I too thank as a sign of respect for any good deeds done. Then when I read of these different levels of reverence or “worship” for different Saints, it becomes very confusing to me…

Don’t let it confuse you. Is it wrong for you to show more respect to a parent than a sibling? Is it wrong to show more respect to an elder than a junior, or a teacher than a student? The world is full of different levels of respect that’s due to individuals, depending on who or what they are in relation to ourselves.

That’s good. But it seems they’re taught there’s a massive difference in the reverence shown between Mary and others as you have said.

Mary is the Mother of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, and our own Mother. Don’t you think she deserves more respect than any other human being in Heaven or on earth, just because she was His Mother, first? If it wasn’t for Mary, we wouldn’t have Jesus.

Well yes, she’s special of course.

Amen!

Indeed. As I said we do agree on these points in a way.

Pray. Ask Jesus what He thinks about it.

That you’re right about (not the ignoring part). Making Mary happy is not my intention; my intention is to please God, which would in turn make Mary happy.

God loves to make Mary happy. Anything we might do to make her happy, also makes God very happy.

Honor again seems like a much better word than “worship”.

I didn’t use the word ‘worship’.

 

[Gara3987]

Catholics seemed divided on this sometimes; and Protestants basically have an uproar about Catholics on this issue, and that’s “Worship”, who’s being worshiped, and what qualifies as worship?

According to the Oxford Dictionary:
1The feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity:
the worship of God
ancestor worship

1.2Adoration or devotion comparable to religious homage, shown toward a person or principle:
our society’s worship of teenagers​

The most difficult thing for me is understanding when someone or something is ‘worshiped’?

I do not accuse Catholics as worshiping anyone else or anything else as God; but how does one know if they’ve gone too far or not? At what point is high reverence considered worship and no longer reverence?

For example; one can worship money and yet not even believe in God or know that they are worshiping money. Or one can idolize a sports team and not realize they’re taking part in idolatry. Even the popular American show with up and coming singers has the word ‘idol’ in it. Is this the kind of idolizing and worship that God would not permit? And if so, does it extend to Saints?

Finally I want to ask about the words themselves and how terms change. For example; many Catholics will say that they don’t worship Mary and yet this Catholic article says they do, but not like you think. From Catholic Answers: catholic.com/tracts/saint-worship

Another example of a word change would be ‘Adoration’. Catholics say that Adoration is only for God; but again someone could say they adore their cute little babies face. Even the french phrase when referring to a deep love for someone is J’adore. It doesn’t show Adoration only due to God, but an intimate love for another that isn’t worship.

So how and where do we draw the line? How do we know that we’re not worshiping someone/something without knowing?

Research Cultus Dulia, Cultus Hyperdulia, & Cultus Latria.