Worshipping the Wrong God

[obvious_ron]

When does believing the wrong things about God turn into believing in the wrong god? Never? To say that there’s only one God so therefore we all worship the same God sounds preposterous. However, I have seen such an argument in these forums.

 

[Gorgias]

When does believing the wrong things about God turn into believing in the wrong god? Never? To say that there’s only one God so therefore we all worship the same God sounds preposterous. However, I have seen such an argument in these forums.

The “wrong god” you assert is a god who does not exist. How can you worship something that does not exist?

 

[TechieGuy]

How can you worship something that does not exist?

People used to worship Zeus. Did Zeus exist?

 

[obvious_ron]

So you’re implying there is no idolatry? No heresy? No way to offer worship to something other than God? I can’t make up in my mind what I think is God but really isn’t?

 

[Kei]

God is in everything but is not everything.

It can be complicated.

How much error until you believe in the wrong God?

I believe it is said that those in Israel who worshipped Ashera and believed YHWH had a wife were worshipping a different God.
So that’s one example. But. This is not authoritative judgement, but simply rabbi opinion I do believe.

 

[exnihilo]

I am a person who believes that in general anyone who worships one omnipotent, omniscient God is worshiping the same God. I see people resist this and it seems to me mostly out a desire to say Islam worships a different God. I don’t think they do, but that doesn’t mean I think Islam is almost as good as Christianity or has much good in it.

The problem I see is where do you draw the line on this subject? Philosophically being wrong about an attribute of something doesn’t mean you are referring to something else. For instance, if I say did you see Jim in the beige shirt (when he had a green shirt on), then I’m still referring to Jim. I’m just wrong about some attribute.

 

[daverod]

to think God prefers death over life is wrong and to worship God thinking HE desires death over life would be false worship.

 

[Genesis315]

It’s not God when essence and existence are not the same–in other words, worshiping a being with contingent a essence that either exists (e.g. statues, demons, humans, animals, etc.) or doesn’t (things like Zeus, etc.) God on other hand, is the only entity where existence and essence are the same (“I AM”) and not contingent on anything else, and on which all other beings’ existence is contingent.

 

[Genesis315]

Back in one of the threads on Islam’s conception of God, I go into more detail on why what you’re saying is correct (see this post which continues into the one immediately following).

Is Catholicsm and Islam compatible? Apologetics

Here’s my understanding as to why we can say Muslims acknowledge and even worship the same God as us. First, I think there should be noted the difference between worshiping God in Spirit and in truth, offering Him “true worship,” having supernatural faith, obeying Him, etc., and acknowledging God or worshiping God according to the virtue of religion (which is not a theological virtue, but a natural virtue that falls under justice). St. Thomas defines this virtue in the Summa as “to show revere…

Also, as I said in my post in this thread, it’s all about the identity of essence and existence. Here’s a brief explanation from the Catholic Encyclopedia:

-If essence and existence were but one thing, we should be unable to conceive the one without conceiving the other. But we are as a fact able to conceive of essence by itself.
-If there be no real distinction between the two, then the essence is identical with the existence. But in God alone are these identical.

Note, when we conceive an entity where essence and existence are the same thing, we can’t help but conceive of the entity that exists–and this is only God. Therefore, to posit an entity where essence and existence are the same, is only to posit God (it is impossible for it not to be God).

We can conceive of essence separate from existence (say, a unicorn), except in the case of God.

 

[jfz178]

Here’s what I think is ironic about the way some people approach this argument. Most people start out with the idea that God is all powerful, all knowing and unfathomable. So far so good. But then some people start putting limitations on God!!! They say, He’s this way or He’s that way. Is God not capable of being whatever He wants to be? Is he not capable of transcending all these characteristics we ascribe to Him? Are we limiting our all powerful God and saying he does not have the power to be all things to all people?

If we truly believe there is only on God, who else are these other people worshipping? And why have the recent Popes been more accepting than condemning of people of other faiths? Why does the Church recognize things like marriages from other faiths?

I think if we believe there is only one God, we have to believe other believers are worshipping the same God, because there isn’t another one. I think it is a matter that we believe we have the right understanding of the one God and other religions don’t.

I believe that even religions who believe in multiple Gods are worshiping different aspects of the one God, but again, they just have an incorrect understanding.

 

[Kei]

So say one believes in the heretical idea of a pantheistic God, are they believing in God?

 

[Genesis315]

No, because the pantheistic conception of God is not completely self-actualized, but subject to change and evolution.

Pantheism is ultimately the same as atheism (affirming the existence of the universe, but not its cause) or certain forms of idolatry that worship the creature rather than the creator.

 

[Mary888]

We can conceive of essence separate from existence (say, a unicorn), except in the case of God.

What about the one immortal being opposing God and his followers? How can we tell? How can you claim that Jesus Christ founded parallel churches?
When this Muhamad wrote his book (under the directions of two heretics in their respective religions - a Jew named Elli and an Arius follower) The Church existed. Did he ever tried to contact Her? No. Did he ever present things according to the Scripture in the NT? No. The Quar’an expresses no desire with union of Christian Church. It presents things in parallel, using violence against Christians and Jews? Does the Holy Spirit contradicts Himself?
How can we even mention islam religiously as Christians?

 

[Genesis315]

Acknowledging the existence of God and claiming that He inspired the Koran (or other false religions) are two different things. It’s no different than someone who forges autographs of celebrities acknowledging the existence of the real person whose autograph he has forged–in fact, it’s a lot more effective and deceptive and harmful to try and sell a fake autograph of a real person than a fake autograph of a made up person!

 

[Kei]

So you are saying pantheism doesn’t have a god with the essence and existence?

I agree a pure pantheism is atheism

 

[jfz178]

I disagree. Pantheism is defined as “a doctrine that identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God.” I think that is not a perfect understanding of God as we understand Him, but not completely inconsistent. We either believe that God created and directs the universe, or we believe in an atheist Big Bang. Which is it?

 

[Benadam]

Something Tim Staples wrote

Some will argue that if someone presents, for example, their “God” as teaching the rape of small children to be okay, then that God is not God at all. And that, I would argue, is true. It could be argued that that “God” would suffer from a moral defect, and therefore, could not be God.

But even if it is possible for a person (or a faith, like Islam) to claim belief in the one true God, but so distort what God teaches that he (or it) ceases to truly believe in the “one true God" in reality, then, according to the Church, Islam has not reached that point in its errors.

There is a boundary according to Mr Staples