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CatholicLife
Guest
After the first reading a person goes to the ambo and starts singing. One time when I was altar serving the priest forgot his stole and told me to go get it for him. But the following video is just horrible…
gloria.tv/?video=pwxa9jff7gs5kldzpiu7
gloria.tv/?video=pwxa9jff7gs5kldzpiu7
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Benedict108
Guest
Wow! You are right! That video was horrendous and what’s worse is that the celebrant was a cardinal!After the first reading a person goes to the ambo and starts singing. One time when I was altar serving the priest forgot his stole and told me to go get it for him. But the following video is just horrible…
gloria.tv/?video=pwxa9jff7gs5kldzpiu7
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LexKnight
Guest
I’m interested in the use of the term “abuse” by some people to describe a few of the things mentioned here. “Inappropriate” or “improper” might be better words to describe some things. Serious abuse is a concern though and should not be simply overlooked; however we mustn’t let our frustration hinder our love for God.
My Mum is a liturgist, like, a professional who lectured at universities on the subject etc. so I’ve grown up in a home with a relatively complete understanding of good liturgy. A while back I was getting quite frustrated with a number of small things that was getting in the way of me finding my way to God. Then, by complete coincidence, I stumbled upon this quote.
“Too easily we get caught in a critical attitude and then become angry and frustrated at the stupidity of our brothers and sisters in Christ, even to the point where we can no longer give ourselves over to the prayer of the liturgy. The only way out of this is to allow the Spirit of God to convert our indignation into Compassion.”
It’s from a book called Liturgy Made Simple unfortunately I don’t know the author (the quote was found in a pile of photocopies not the original text). I think it is something that is very good to keep in mind.
My Mum is a liturgist, like, a professional who lectured at universities on the subject etc. so I’ve grown up in a home with a relatively complete understanding of good liturgy. A while back I was getting quite frustrated with a number of small things that was getting in the way of me finding my way to God. Then, by complete coincidence, I stumbled upon this quote.
“Too easily we get caught in a critical attitude and then become angry and frustrated at the stupidity of our brothers and sisters in Christ, even to the point where we can no longer give ourselves over to the prayer of the liturgy. The only way out of this is to allow the Spirit of God to convert our indignation into Compassion.”
It’s from a book called Liturgy Made Simple unfortunately I don’t know the author (the quote was found in a pile of photocopies not the original text). I think it is something that is very good to keep in mind.
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Walking_Home
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Let the “little” matters go --they will snowball into big ones.
Seems this is a better quote:
Luke 16:10
The person who is trustworthy in very small matters is also trustworthy in great ones; and the person who is dishonest in very small matters is also dishonest in great ones.
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LexKnight
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I was talking more about things like people saying it was an abuse when the priest sat in the pews during a homily given by a deacon or a priest discussing mobile phones as part of the homily. Particularly with the latter (if the discussion was relevant) I don’t think any of the above would be considered “abuses” - maybe inappropriate (again, depending on the circumstance) but not “abuses.”
Not saying that we should encourage this behaviour, however if we get angry and frustrated at every single thing it can prevent us from really connecting to the significance of the Mass.
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Walking_Home
Guest
Well – many a time doing nothing about the inappropriate behavior --actually encourages peoples behavior. Encouragement via silence.
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LexKnight
Guest
Still, as human beings we need to be able to learn to pick our battles. If we get outraged over every small thing then we may lose sight of the bigger picture. If something becomes a continual problem then by all means it is appropriate to address it with the priest/liturgist/etc (and if they are unresponsive, the higher-ups), but making a mountain out of every molehill really doesn’t do anyone much good.
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Walking_Home
Guest
Unfortunately LexKnight --as our own history for the last 40 or so years has shown — the manipulation/distortion of the Mass --has turned into continual problem and the little molehill has evolved into a mountain.
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Lujack
Guest
The point, I think, is that a priest referencing cell phones in his homily is not an abuse. It might be a bad choice for a homily, but a bad homily isn’t a liturgical abuse, its a bad homily.
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Walking_Home
Guest
We attend Mass to offer worship to God and to be nourished by the Word of God and Holy Communion —do we not. The homily is part of that nourishment --part of the liturgical action. To turn the homily into a discussion of cell phones --cheats the congregation of part of their food and unstablizes liturgical action.
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Lujack
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We don’t have the full homily. He could have been making a point. I can remember an excellent that homily that began with the priest sitting in a pew and reading the newspaper for two minutes. While that in itself sounds bad, it was the perfect analogy for his homily (what, exactly, does awaiting the Second Coming mean? hint: it wasn’t sitting in a pew and reading the daily paper).
The reference to cell phones could have had a legitimate purpose, it could have been an attempted analogy that fell flat, or it could have just been a bad idea. Thus, it is not necessarily an abuse.
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Walking_Home
Guest
While you are right --we don’t have the full homily we do have this. The person who posted this was aware enough to know it was out of place. Now it could have been a “bad idea”–“an anology that fell flat” --etc. – the end result would still be the congregation being deprived.
Quote=Extempore
5. Priest pulling out his iPhone during the homily and using it as a conversation piece. Asking people in the congregation to tell him what kind of cell phone they had.
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Lujack
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I agree, the analogy obviously fell on deaf ears with at least one person. That isn’t an abuse, though, any more than a cantor who can’t sing or a lector who has a voice that makes people want to rip their ears off is an abuse.
There’s a specific definition of an abuse, and a bad homily just doesn’t fall into it. If it preached heresy or whatever, then it would be an abuse, but if it just failed to connect…that’s something else.
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Walking_Home
Guest
That would depend on whether one tends to make light of matters that can and do make an impact on the stability of the Mass.
RS–2004
[11.] The Mystery of the Eucharist “is too great for anyone to permit himself to treat it according to his own whim, so that its sacredness and its universal ordering would be obscured”.[27] On the contrary, anyone who acts thus by giving free reign to his own inclinations, even if he is a Priest, injures the substantial unity of the Roman Rite, which ought to be vigorously preserved,[28] and becomes responsible for actions that are in no way consistent with the hunger and thirst for the living God that is experienced by the people today. Nor do such actions serve authentic pastoral care or proper liturgical renewal; instead, they deprive Christ’s faithful of their patrimony and their heritage. For arbitrary actions are not conducive to true renewal,[29] but are detrimental to the right of Christ’s faithful to a liturgical celebration that is an expression of the Church’s life in accordance with her tradition and discipline. In the end, they introduce elements of distortion and disharmony into the very celebration of the Eucharist, which is oriented in its own lofty way and by its very nature to signifying and wondrously bringing about the communion of divine life and the unity of the People of God.[30] The result is uncertainty in matters of doctrine, perplexity and scandal on the part of the People of God, and, almost as a necessary consequence, vigorous opposition, all of which greatly confuse and sadden many of Christ’s faithful in this age of ours when Christian life is often particularly difficult on account of the inroads of “secularization” as well.[31]
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Extempore
Guest
Since I wrote the bit about the cell phone, I suppose I should clarify by re-quoting what I said. I originally said that I did not believe all the things I mentioned to be abuses but they were definitely not “normal” by any account:
And yes, it was an analogy - and a rather sad one at that, as it really had nothing (that I could see) to do with anything other than cell phones. But again, this is just my opinion.
And yet, I hear this:
Again, didn’t say that it was abuse, just that it seemed wrong. Also, this was a LifeTeen Mass so I imagine the Priest was trying to connect with teens by asking them about something they were familiar with: cell phones. Again, personally I think this is kind of degrading to teenagers who are, actually, quite able to follow a “regular” homily, but whatever.
And yes, it was an analogy - and a rather sad one at that, as it really had nothing (that I could see) to do with anything other than cell phones. But again, this is just my opinion.
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Walking_Home
Guest
Since I wrote the bit about the cell phone, I suppose I should clarify by re-quoting what I said. I originally said that I did not believe all the things I mentioned to be abuses but they were definitely not “normal” by any account:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Extempore View Post
While these might not all technically be considered “abuse” they all struck me as odd, out of the ordinary or just plain weird:
And yet, I hear this:
uote:
Originally Posted by Lujack View Post
I agree, the analogy obviously fell on deaf ears with at least one person. That isn’t an abuse, though, any more than a cantor who can’t sing or a lector who has a voice that makes people want to rip their ears off is an abuse.
There’s a specific definition of an abuse, and a bad homily just doesn’t fall into it. If it preached heresy or whatever, then it would be an abuse, but if it just failed to connect…that’s something else.
Again, didn’t say that it was abuse, just that it seemed wrong. Also, this was a LifeTeen Mass so I imagine the Priest was trying to connect with teens by asking them about something they were familiar with: cell phones. Again, personally I think this is kind of degrading to teenagers who are, actually, quite able to follow a “regular” homily, but whatever.
And yes, it was an analogy - and a rather sad one at that, as it really had nothing (that I could see) to do with anything other than cell phones. But again, this is just my opinion.
Extempore – to be fair–Lujak was not directing him/her self to you --but to me. If you read further back --you will see where I came in and what followed.
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Extempore
Guest
Good to know, because I thought it pretty clear that I wasn’t implying abuse from the start.
On the other hand, its kind of depressing that the cell phone thing is apparently not limited to one parish…
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