Would a game like this be a sin?

[purplesunshine]

So are chess pieces. What do you think Pawns, Bishops, and Knights stood for?
Are you going to say playing chess is then sinful? Pretty much all RTS war games (Warcraft, Starcraft, Red Alert) are nothing more than advanced versions of chess and checkers. You control units and your goal is to have them annihilate the opposing side. Frankly, I’ve never been so good at them (I can’t even beat a normal level AI from any the games mentioned >_>;; ) but it’s from my losses (yes bacon man and other gamers, I’m a noob, please don’t laugh) that I realize the importance of proper strategy and the importance planning on how to use your resources.

However, that doesn’t mean I’m really gonna wage war with other people. Only nuts like Jack Thompson believe in the nonsense that video games do that to ya.

Humans are visual creatures…so no, chess and checkers are not the same even though they are stragety games. That and chess is played against a person you face and part of the strategy is true human interaction, comreadery and relationship building. Sorry, internet friends don’t count.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

The catechism hasn’t exactly caught up with nintendo 64. I’ll let Eucharisted handle finding those quotes becuase I’m sure there are a ton about squandering time, allowing violent images or ideas into our homes and the slipery slope in general.

Nope. None that explicitly state anyways. The only thing close to that was when in regards to pornographic images.

HOWEVER, it dosn’t make it not sinful. I’m not talking about a stress disorder, I’m talking about the fact that this warps your mind ever so slowly. How do you think you get to a place where it becomes ok to have a real-live porno shop in your neighborhood becuase “it keeps people employed and happy” and since you don’t participate in it, its ok.

Only an idiot who can’t tell fantasy from reality would do that I assure you. The thing about games is that they’re a different reality in of themselves. Such realities have different rules that don’t exist in the real world. Everyone knows the real ramifications of opening porno shops and brothels. It’s the same way everyone knows the real ramifications of being a vigilante like the many superheroes do. However, games that let you do that don’t have you suffering such consequences because they’re not real.

For example, say in Starcraft, I send a group of Marines, Firebats, and a couple of Medics for support to take out what I thought was a small Zerg encampment. However, it turns out that encampment was more well guarded than I thought and I end up losing my troops. Am I going to worry about the ‘families’ these fictional soldiers ‘could have’ because real soldiers have real families and such? No! Why? Cuz I’m not overly emotional enough to worry about consequences that aren’t even real.

What about illegal drugs? You don’t participate in them but you’d probably freak if they started using your backyard. What about if the FBI wanted to use some of your bandwith and hard-drive to process torture secrets?

What are you talking about? What does this have to do with games? Please, go see a doctor if you think building fictional ‘brothels’ is anything close to the level you’re insinuating.

Its not about you becoming a mass-murder. Its about the fact that one needs to recognize that wrong is wrong and evil is evil and its not “ok” just becuase its a computer game.

Who says one has to say this is “not wrong”? Again, if one knows how to differentiate fantasy from reality then you don’t have to worry about anybody thinking it’s all right to mimic certain things in a video game. Like I said, only retards would do that.

And again, how we spend our time does have serious moral implications. If someone squander time laying in bed, eating ho-hos they will have the sin of gluttony and sloth to answer for. If how we spent our time didn’t have moral implications then we wouldn’t have to go to Mass weekly. God is a great demander of our time

Really? I think the time that God demands from us is just right. One hour a week on Sunday. Compare that to the wonderfully large amount of time such as the other days of the week, such a thing should be neither too much or too little to even a busybody such as myself.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Humans are visual creatures…so no, chess and checkers are not the same even though they are stragety games. That and chess is played against a person you face and part of the strategy is true human interaction, comreadery and relationship building. Sorry, internet friends don’t count.

Uh yeah they are. I ask again, what do the Knights, Bishops, and Kings in such games represent anything other than their human counterparts in the medieval period? Ever heard of LAN? People still do play RTS games via LAN you know. Thus, you stating that chess or checkers are different because they allow interaction is pointless given that LAN players can sit next to or across each other and have just as much as the same level of interaction (if not more, given that RTS games are pretty much more exciting and action-oriented than those board games).

 

[purplesunshine]

Nope. None that explicitly state anyways. The only thing close to that was when in regards to pornographic images.

It dosn’t matter if its explicit…again I’m knocking the permissive…the idea that its “ok” to use a brothel in a positive light. Its just not right

Only an idiot who can’t tell fantasy from reality would do that I assure you. The thing about games is that they’re a different reality in of themselves. Such realities have different rules that don’t exist in the real world. Everyone knows the real ramifications of opening porno shops and brothels. It’s the same way everyone knows the real ramifications of being a vigilante like the many superheroes do. However, games that let you do that don’t have you suffering such consequences because they’re not real.
For example, say in Starcraft, I send a group of Marines, Firebats, and a couple of Medics for support to take out what I thought was a small Zerg encampment. However, it turns out that encampment was more well guarded than I thought and I end up losing my troops. Am I going to worry about the ‘families’ these fictional soldiers ‘could have’ because real soldiers have real families and such? No! Why? Cuz I’m not overly emotional enough to worry about consequences that aren’t even real.

sigh again its not about your immediate reaction…its about what its doing to your brain, and like it or not its changing it. Again, think of the dog poo…its only a little bad.

What are you talking about? What does this have to do with games? Please, go see a doctor if you think building fictional ‘brothels’ is anything close to the level you’re insinuating.

Umm no. you’re the one if who needs help if you think there is nothing wrong with putting brothols in a game even if its for fun. Why don’t we just include a “brothel” sign in the lincolyn logs kit along with the “sherrif” and “hotel” sign.

Who says one has to say this is “not wrong”? Again, if one knows how to differentiate fantasy from reality then you don’t have to worry about anybody thinking it’s all right to mimic certain things in a video game. Like I said, only retards would do that.

Actually, its not only retards. And I didn’t say mimic. I just said that it will affect your ability to judge right from wrong which it clearly has already done.

Really? I think the time that God demands from us is just right. One hour a week on Sunday. Compare that to the wonderfully large amount of time such as the other days of the week, such a thing should be neither too much or too little to even a busybody such as myself.

God wants every minute of our time. He longs to be in union with us. He only demands us to go to Mass once a week but in reality every moment should be spent in Him, with Him and for Him.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

It dosn’t matter if its explicit…again I’m knocking the permissive…the idea that its “ok” to use a brothel in a positive light. Its just not right

It’s just a fictionalized situation that in no way affects actual reality. You’re being paranoid.

sigh again its not about your immediate reaction…its about what its doing to your brain, and like it or not its changing it. Again, think of the dog poo…its only a little bad.

What do these games to do people’s brain? I’ll tell you what: Nothing.
At least, nothing as far as to what you’re insinuating. Fiction can only affect you if you let it. There lies the real power of the mind, I suggest you use it.

And honestly, your analogy is not only unoriginal but when applied to the whole world everything that’s in it pretty much has your so called “dog poo”. If you wanna live in a bubble instead of taking it easy, then go ahead, just don’t force it down on other people or think you’re being morally higher than them.

Umm no. you’re the one if who needs help if you think there is nothing wrong with putting brothols in a game even if its for fun. Why don’t we just include a “brothel” sign in the lincolyn logs kit along with the “sherrif” and “hotel” sign.

Uh so? It’s a game.There’s not even any explicit content. And besides, you’re comparing apples to oranges. RTS games like this are nothing like children’s toys. Do you have any idea of how insulting that is to gamers like me? You know, there’s a thing called the ESRB that rates these games and dictates the appropriate ages for these games. If this is how you compare things then you might as well be saying that PG-13 movies can be viewed by six-year-olds.

Heck, you’re not even buying real hookers. You’re just foreseeing the construction of a digital building that’s supposed to fulfill a purpose in a game. You know, just because I create a building that puts together various pieces of human flesh and body parts (like a certain Undead structure in Warcraft III, it doesn’t mean I wanna do something like that in real life.

Actually, its not only retards. And I didn’t say mimic. I just said that it will affect your ability to judge right from wrong which it clearly has already done.

How stupid do you have to be to believe that you can do things that are wrong in reality and think they’re right just from playing a video game?

Answer: Very stupid.

Video games are just tools for entertainment. No self-respecting Christian gamer is dumb enough to think they can tell you what’s right and wrong.

God wants every minute of our time. He longs to be in union with us. He only demands us to go to Mass once a week but in reality every moment should be spent in Him, with Him and for Him.

Oh I see, you’re one of these “passionately devoted” types. I hate to break it to you but I don’t need to engage in extra devotions and novenas just to keep myself outta hell. Unless of course, you’re willing to prove fundamentalists right that Catholics are obsessed with such things.

 

[purplesunshine]

It’s just a fictionalized situation that in no way affects actual reality. You’re being paranoid.

What do these games to do people’s brain? I’ll tell you what: Nothing.
At least, nothing as far as to what you’re insinuating. Fiction can only affect you if you let it. There lies the real power of the mind, I suggest you use it.

And honestly, your analogy is not only unoriginal but when applied to the whole world everything that’s in it pretty much has your so called “dog poo”. If you wanna live in a bubble instead of taking it easy, then go ahead, just don’t force it down on other people or think you’re being morally higher than them.

Uh so? It’s a game.There’s not even any explicit content. And besides, you’re comparing apples to oranges. RTS games like this are nothing like children’s toys. Do you have any idea of how insulting that is to gamers like me? You know, there’s a thing called the ESRB that rates these games and dictates the appropriate ages for these games. If this is how you compare things then you might as well be saying that PG-13 movies can be viewed by six-year-olds.

Heck, you’re not even buying real hookers. You’re just foreseeing the construction of a digital building that’s supposed to fulfill a purpose in a game. You know, just because I create a building that puts together various pieces of human flesh and body parts (like a certain Undead structure in Warcraft III, it doesn’t mean I wanna do something like that in real life.

How stupid do you have to be to believe that you can do things that are wrong in reality and think they’re right just from playing a video game?

Answer: Very stupid.

Video games are just tools for entertainment. No self-respecting Christian gamer is dumb enough to think they can tell you what’s right and wrong.

Oh I see, you’re one of these “passionately devoted” types. I hate to break it to you but I don’t need to engage in extra devotions and novenas just to keep myself outta hell. Unless of course, you’re willing to prove fundamentalists right that Catholics are obsessed with such things.

Yet again, you’re making me sound like a fanatic while you base your logic on andicdotal sentiment.

Actually, video games DO change the way people think. There have been havard medical studies on that. I’m neither insunating nor stating that such a video game makes a serial killer, abuser or murderer. Infact, I have stated and restated thats exactly what I’m not saying. I’m saying that it is an opening to evil. period. Its like a teenage girl saying that reading glamor magazine dosn’t affect her body image. Like it or not it does in a very subtle way. Fiction DOES affect the mind which is why certian literature can be dangerous. Its in the catechism, but again, I’ll let Eucharisted fight that battle beucase you asked him first.

I have said again and again that I understand that you’re just setting up a building. My problem is with the type of building and the undlying pervasive idea that it makes it o.k. And I think my point about a child’s toy is still valid. I would let a child play with little green army men, or cowboys and indians (I know thats not PC). War games on the computer don’t have to be much more than play with little green army men. There’s still some desensitization of killing, but I guess for guys its in their nature. Introducing the concept into your head that a brothel makes like better is wrong. Sorry.

And your statement about “retards” and “stupid people” are both quite inaccurate and offensive. If you want to get into that some of the people who caused the most damage to society have extremely high IQ’s. Even “stupid” people like the guys on Jackass have incredibly high IQ’s. Yet they have been suaded by the culture that they can do whatever they want to their bodies. Extremely intellengent men and women can get trapped in abuse becuase they let little things slide into their lives. So no, its not a matter of brain power. Infact, those with high intelligence may be more prone to distructive behavior when they open themselves to evil.

And lastly, no, I’m not a fanatic catholic. But I do look at both the spiritual and moral relm when I do things.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Yet again, you’re making me sound like a fanatic while you base your logic on andicdotal sentiment.

Actually, video games DO change the way people think. There have been havard medical studies on that. I’m neither insunating nor stating that such a video game makes a serial killer, abuser or murderer. Infact, I have stated and restated thats exactly what I’m not saying. I’m saying that it is an opening to evil. period. Its like a teenage girl saying that reading glamor magazine dosn’t affect her body image. Like it or not it does in a very subtle way. Fiction DOES affect the mind which is why certian literature can be dangerous. Its in the catechism, but again, I’ll let Eucharisted fight that battle beucase you asked him first.

Really? I did a google search myself and guess what came up?

**
Harvard researchers: Violent video games OK for kids**

Two Harvard researchers have concluded that there’s no data to support the notion that violent video games cause the kids who play them to act out violence in real life, contrary to the vast majority of media outlets that would have the public thinking otherwise. The $1.5 million study, which began in 2004, closely examined 1,200 children after bouts with violent games like Grand Theft Auto and not-so-violent titles like The Sims.

Psychologists Lawrence Kutner and Cheryl Olson found that for most kids, playing these games was nothing more than a stress reliever. Sure, some children displayed a playful aggressiveness after hours spent with a violent game, but this was no different than what children experience after seeing a martial arts action movie.

Some researchers, including the Harvard psychologists, even suggest that video games have a positive effect on the brain. Steven Johnson explores this concept in his book Everything Bad is Good for You: How Today’s Popular Culture is Actually Making Us Smarter.

Kutner and Olson have documented their findings in Grand Theft Childhood: The Surprising Truth About Violent Video Games, where they stress the importance of parental education and awareness. In a society where children who don’t play games are considered to be socially inept, it is important for parents to understand what their kids are playing. In addition, they need to be able to block out the seemingly endless attacks on the video game industry and use the scientific evidence available to make judgments for themselves and their family.

Source

I have said again and again that I understand that you’re just setting up a building. My problem is with the type of building and the undlying pervasive idea that it makes it o.k. And I think my point about a child’s toy is still valid. I would let a child play with little green army men, or cowboys and indians (I know thats not PC). War games on the computer don’t have to be much more than play with little green army men. There’s still some desensitization of killing, but I guess for guys its in their nature. Introducing the concept into your head that a brothel makes like better is wrong. Sorry.

Did you not read what I said about the ESRB? They gave Total War a T-rating. That means, it’s a game directed at a much older demographic that would very well be proud to say that it’s too old to be playing with silly plastic children’s toys. And the fact that you consider RTS games that comprise of complex programming to playing with simple plastic men is hilarious. You might as well say playing with a toy plane is the same as piloting one.

And your statement about “retards” and “stupid people” are both quite inaccurate and offensive. If you want to get into that some of the people who caused the most damage to society have extremely high IQ’s. Even “stupid” people like the guys on Jackass have incredibly high IQ’s. Yet they have been suaded by the culture that they can do whatever they want to their bodies. Extremely intellengent men and women can get trapped in abuse becuase they let little things slide into their lives. So no, its not a matter of brain power. Infact, those with high intelligence may be more prone to distructive behavior when they open themselves to evil.

Why is it your examples have nothing to do with video games whatsoever? Did the guys on Jackass do those stupid things because of video games or could it be because they’re just a bunch of idiots out for attention? You know you are so immersed with the idea that everything that’s “evil”, even though it’s just a fictional portrayal, is gonna seep into your mind and take over you like some Resident evil virus that you can’t see yourself being paranoid of everything. I suppose actors who play as villains in movies are in just as much danger as the people playing these games because they commit such acts correct? There’s really no difference between them. They both pretend to do “evil” things.

And lastly, no, I’m not a fanatic catholic. But I do look at both the spiritual and moral relm when I do things.

It’s a video game. Get a grip. They have as much moral and spiritual aspects as playing a yo-yo.

 

[bacon_man]

There are far worse games than total war that I would consider morally problamatic, like GTA, espeshally since III. They started out as top down almost catoonish cops and robbers type thing where your the robber, now there downright wrong. I have GTA 2 (the only one rated T) on the old PS1, it’s not very explicit, it’s almost cartoonish, with its poor, primitive graphics. But even I admit that games not so good because of the premise of the game. The newer ones however, are just terrible.

 

[Angel7]

Oh I see, you’re one of these “passionately devoted” types.

That is what we are supposed to be, to grow in faith bit by bit, you can never grow to much. there is no OK, im in the DECENT zone i don’t need to go further. Ive seen many of your previous posts concerning wheter virtual violence is sinful, you always say NO. After much contemplating (and still thinking the answer) i think it IS sinful. I dont wan’t to judge but it seems like you are meerly trying to justify yourself, I mean what so wrong with admitting it is wrong to be entertained by sin. Im sorry, i Hope im not judging, but when I read your posts i just get that Vibe of… trying to justify yourself.

 

[Angel7]

I keep SEEING that those who play video games, say it is not sinful, while those Catholics who are more “religuous” say it is, it distracts you from Prayer, and i always sense that the video-gamers refuse to admit it, are scared to admit they may be sinning, or are justifying themselves because it is Virtual. Imagining Lust is sinful, so why isn’t imaging Wrath (Violence) just as bad, is it because we have becomed nuumb to violence? Even playing Tetris i think our attention should be elsewhere, to god.

 

[Angel7]

No need to Pick on Lost Wanderer, his/her reaction to this subject seems to be the right one, and I agree.

 

[Charlotte408]

ok…so like…i’m just jumping in on this conversation so imma give my two cents…

i think that, playing this game may not be in and of itself a sin, but what are you really doing here??

your playing a game, in which people go to war with other religions??? killing popes?? These are things that we pray DO NOT happen everyday…and your playing it out…for ‘entertainment’??? i mean…it just doesnt sound like it adds up…

how can you can pray at night, assuming your a catholic and desire everyone to be in communion with God and live in peace, for wars to end…people to unite…etc etc…

but then wake up in the morning and delight in doing so? even if it is vicariously through a video game?

are we not to lead by example? or our words are shallow and meaningless?? I know its just a game…but…what is its context?? I dont think theres anything entertaining about killing popes…

Good hypothetical situation…the obamacare health reform that everyones talking about…we, as catholics, should know that it masks mandated abortions etc. and that as a politician, obama is pushing it thru as fast as possible, not neccessarily because this is an ‘dire emergency’ and people are dying on the streets without healthcare (even someone without healthcare would still be treated at a hospital, i believe its called ‘open door policy’) but because his administration knows that the more time people have to discover what the true intentions are of the policy, they may be opposed to it and the policy will be harder to push thru.

Some might argue that the forces behind such tactics, especially since the obama administration is the most radical pro abortion campaign ever, are finding a way to reek havoc on humanity thru lies and deception- and we all know who the king of lies and deception is.

I voted for obama. I had no way of foretelling any of this would happen. Is it a sin to vote? No…

But am I morally obligated, now that I know what his campaign is really about, to oppose it?? I think so…even though the sin is not directly made by me, by promoting the immoral material I am indirectly contributing to it…see what I’m getting at??

Your not physically getting up, going out and killing a pope…but you know its wrong, even the thought of it, in your heart…so how could you just play along? What if theres a kid playing who doesnt take it as lighthearted as you? What if he actually does decide to attempt it?? would you then, as a fellow player, have contributed to his motivation?? idk…

critical thinking bacon boy…critical thinking

 

[Charlotte408]

Did you not read what I said about the ESRB? They gave Total War a T-rating. That means, it’s a game directed at a much older demographic that would very well be proud to say that it’s too old to be playing with silly plastic children’s toys. …It’s a video game. Get a grip. They have as much moral and spiritual aspects as playing a yo-yo.

Ummm…first off, regardless of rating, if something is inappropriate or immoral it shouldnt be condoned. PERIOD. In my state abortions are legalized at 16. So…once one hits 16 should they jump up and be like, ‘oh I’ve reached the age abortion is ok, so now its ok! The states says, after all, at 16 I’m mature enough to handle it’

No. wrong is wrong.

Secondly, playing a game of YO-YO doesnt have aspect of KILLING people in it.

 

[Angel7]

Well, i only read 2 threads back but anyway, Untill i get a proffesional opinion from a Priest, or anyone in the Clergy, I Feel that Video games distract you from G-D and so, untill i get a proffessional answer, ill stick with my Opinion.

Im not trying to judge.

But wow, this is a really disputed Topic!!!

 

[Charlotte408]

from reading back it sounds like your opinion is the same as mine! but as for what a ‘priest’ would say about it…do you really have to speculate as to if a priest would find entertaining the thought of ‘killing popes’ offensive or sinful???

lol…it be kinda like asking a patriot if a threat against the president was a serious offense or not…

some logical…critical…or heck even common sense should lead the OP to their answer…

 

[Angel7]

No need to Pick on Lost Wanderer, his/her reaction to this subject seems to be the right one, and I agree.

eh, scratch that, wrong person

 

[Angel7]

Well i want to know about video games in General Should we avoid them? or only Avoid the Violent Genre? If so what type of Violence? Cartoon/Animated (like pokemon)? Violent realistic but no Gore? (like Battlefield2) or Only those Extreme Violent Games, like God of War (never played it)? Or should they be avoided al together?

I think a Clergy’s opinion on this could be illuminating. dont you agree?

 

[Charlotte408]

oh no your absolutely right…i would consider a priest opinion on moral issues more authoritative than ANY laymans…they are, in fact, trained on the matters…

but for conversation and insights sake…i’d say that pokemon’ would be safe…whereas a game with brothels’, killing of popes, etc would be on the other end of the spectrum…i mean, in the end it doesnt say anywhere in the bible that ‘thou shalt not play video games’ but its common sense that we should avoid things that would put us in a state of moral peril…anytime you partake in any event, or, anything…you gotta consider what direction its leading you in…

but again, my 2cents…im done

 

[Angel7]

Thank you for the Reply Charlotte408, but i think i found an answer after much soul searching, ( and by that i mean surfing the web ) look at this link, it is the POPE’S Opinion on Video Games.

catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=22807

I wonder if the link works, anyway, it states that video games that Glorify Violence, and Lust. Should Be avoided, especially if directed at Children. So Non lustful & Violent Video games in Moderation seems to be ok. i think i’ve given my 2 cents

Now i can play (some) of my video games without being a hypocrite.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

That is what we are supposed to be, to grow in faith bit by bit, you can never grow to much. there is no OK, im in the DECENT zone i don’t need to go further. Ive seen many of your previous posts concerning wheter virtual violence is sinful, you always say NO. After much contemplating (and still thinking the answer) i think it IS sinful. I dont wan’t to judge but it seems like you are meerly trying to justify yourself, I mean what so wrong with admitting it is wrong to be entertained by sin. Im sorry, i Hope im not judging, but when I read your posts i just get that Vibe of… trying to justify yourself.

Then you need to contemplate some more cuz I know I have. While you’re at it, you might wanna start focusing on the line that divides reality and fantasy.

And so what if I sound like trying to justify myself? You wanna know why I consider it a problem to admit this is a sin? Because not only is their lack of evidence of it being a sin, gaming can be a very effective way for people to take out their frustrations. I’d rather take a gun in a video game and shoot monsters with it than take a real automatic and start going on a killing spree.

I keep SEEING that those who play video games, say it is not sinful, while those Catholics who are more “religuous” say it is, it distracts you from Prayer, and i always sense that the video-gamers refuse to admit it, are scared to admit they may be sinning, or are justifying themselves because it is Virtual. Imagining Lust is sinful, so why isn’t imaging Wrath (Violence) just as bad, is it because we have becomed nuumb to violence? Even playing Tetris i think our attention should be elsewhere, to god.

Because violence and anger in of itself isn’t really a sin.
It can be a fine instrument for… JUSTICE!!! >8D

laughs like Light Yagami

Seriously though, take a chill pill. People like you are one of the prime reasons why gamers aren’t very friendly towards the idea of religion. You think everything should be devoted to God and religious activities and leave no room for breaks. In other words, it’s a belief system of killjoys.