Would a human clone have a soul?

[Hlafdige]

If a human clone were born, think how people – even scientifically-minded, well-meaning Catholics, to judge from the posts on this thread – might feel free to treat him or her. This is what‘s REALLY scary, not the clones themselves or the sinful circumstances of their conception.

Too often, the mentally disabled are regarded as not really human, and in earlier times were considered the changeling offspring of demons. An autistic blogger quotes:

Eight years ago [in the year 1532] at Dessau, I, Dr. Martin Luther, saw and touched a changeling. It was twelve years old, and from its eyes and the fact that it had all of its senses, one could have thought that it was a real child. It did nothing but eat; in fact, it ate enough for any four peasants or threshers. It ate, ****, and pissed, and whenever someone touched it, it cried… I said to the Princes of Anhalt: “If I were the prince or the ruler here, I would throw this child into the water–into the Molda that flows by Dessau. I would dare commit homicidium on him!” But the Elector of Saxony, who was with me at Dessau, and the Princes of Anhalt did not want to follow my advice… Such a changeling child is only a piece of flesh, a massa carnis, because it has no soul.

and comments:

Dead souls in live bodies. Doesn’t matter how you treat us, then, we’re not there. No soul. No thoughts. No feelings… If someone is an empty body, then they have no rights. Because there’s no person to have rights. They don’t need to be fed. Why feed an empty person? They don’t need medical care. Why bother treating an empty person? They don’t need to be protected from abuse. They won’t feel it, they won’t care. They don’t need to be listened to… Why bother, if you’ve assumed from the beginning that someone has nothing to say, and is saying nothing? They don’t need to be given decent lives. Why would an empty person care what kind of life they lead? Their killers don’t need to actually be viewed as killers. What is the real harm in killing someone who is already dead?

This is what a living, sentient (cloned) human being, like us except for the circumstances of his or her conception, would be up against. How can anyone believe that God would not defend these poorest of the poor?

 

[Hlafdige]

** [Pontifical Academy For Life, Notes on Cloning (Sept. 1998),]

… It should be noted however that, should the extension of cloning to the human species be desired, this duplication of body structure does not necessarily imply a perfectly identical person, understood in his ontological and psychological reality. The spiritual soul, which is the essential constituent of every subject belonging to the human species and is created directly by God, cannot be generated by the parents, produced by artificial fertilization or cloned.

Source: catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?id=6180&repos=1&subrepos=&searchid=279147

 

[Sir_Knight]

Throughout this thread all I ever stated was “The Vatican is opposed to cloning…”

That is not true. If that was all that you said, then there would be no arguement because we are all in agreement on that but the fact is that throught out this entire thread you have repeatedly said that clones do not have a soul, should not be baptized and are possessed by demons …

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   Mary Gail 36;3989718:
   

   Yes it has a soul. As do IVF children. As do both identical twins in a pair. God is very generous, regardless of the stupid things his children do.

   I believe you are wrong.

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   If a body can be cloned can the soul be cloned as well? Isn’t this playing God? IMO, if a clone of a human ever happens the cloned body will be animated by evil spirit(s) same as possession …only to a GREATER degree.

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   Cloning is a way the devil can be “incarnated.”

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   IMO, clones will be bodies that contain spirits from tha abyss walking among us. .

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   If you are going to be objective you have to look at the other possibilities. The idea of clones living amongst us is the most unnatural and unholy of anything mankind has ever embarked upon.
   
   Oddly, we kill the unborn and the advocates of this see it as just and compassionate. So, now, we look to bring in clones and some see it as from God. NEITHER. Both are from Hell. Wake up and see what’s happening.

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   The devil is a spirit and cannot be part of a conception but if God is absent from the moment a soul is brougtht forth then, it would follow, that is Satan’s opportunity to animate the yet-to-be-born.

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   If a clone is brought to the Vatican (by special petition) to be Baptized…do you think it would receive baptism in St. Peter’s? Do you thnk it would be baptized anywhere else in the Catholic world?
   
   I don’t think so.

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   Cloning is a secular manuever to bring about a life…but it CANNOT inject a soul into the end- product.

   … Your comments are even appearing at the top of a Google search on “cloning & baptism”.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Thank you. The last paragraph is nothing more than an opinion. It is not authoritative whatsoever. The author(s) and their (name removed by moderator)uts on this topic are merely speculative and is NOT doctrinal. One could bemieve it ot not believe it just as opinions here by posters.

While the sources that they have presented are not authoritative or doctrinal, they do represent the opinions of those in phylosophy [sp] & science and have more merit to them than the sources which you have presented to support your position that clones do not have souls, do not need to be baptized and are possessed by the devil.

 

[ElizabethPH]

Throughout this thread all I ever stated was “The Vatican is opposed to cloning…”

I did not go into detail because I am not privy to the details. I can only tell you the Vatican is opposed to cloning. Whether a clone has a soul or not has not been established in the secular or spiritual world as yet.

This thread prompts inner and deep senses. Opinions here seem more on the side of a clone “having a soul” but that does not mean it does have a soul. Both sides of the issue are invited to express their senses on this topic.

Cloning is evil and it mocks God. It is also in a nebulous way seeking to find eternal life by successions of cloning thereby eradicating God altogether.

Cloning is the absolute height of egocentricism.

It’s really very simple and not a matter of opinion that a clone would be a human being. ALL human beings have souls that is a fact.

 

[saylo]

That is not true. If that was all that you said, then there would be no arguement because we are all in agreement on that but the fact is that throught out this entire thread you have repeatedly said that clones do not have a soul, should not be baptized and are possessed by demons …

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   You are unable to separate MY opinions from “The Vatican opposes cloning.”
   
   Any details rendered by me are my opinions. The “having no soul” comments are MINE.
   
   You have twisted and integrated all that I said as opinion into “The Vatican opposes cloning.” This is a misrepresentation.
   
   All the details are MINE otherwise I would have submitted links. This is distortion, Sir Knight and not very noble of you.
   
   I never said the Vatican said “clones have no souls”…only that the Vatican opposes cloning. IT IS I WHO SAYS CLONES ARE SOULLESS. That is MY opinion and is allowed to be expressed.
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   … Your comments are even appearing at the top of a Google search on “cloning & baptism”.

 

[Sir_Knight]

I have distorted nothing. You said that all that you said was that the Vatican opposed cloning. By your own admission, that is completely false because you have said that clones do not have a soul, should not be baptized and are possessed by demons. I have provided the URL references as proof. Whether or not they represent your opinion is not the point. The point is that you said other things than just that the Vatican opposed cloning.

 

[saylo]

I have distorted nothing. You said that all that you said was that the Vatican opposed cloning. By your own admission, that is completely false because you have said that clones do not have a soul, should not be baptized and are possessed by demons. I have provided the URL references as proof. Whether or not they represent your opinion is not the point. The point is that you said other things than just that the Vatican opposed cloning.

Sir Knight, I am going to have to cease reponding to you on this thread. It is taking on a kind of prosecutorial tone and it only ratchets up ill will.

For your sake and my sake it is better. Perhaps on another thread on a different topic we may have a “meeting of the minds.” No chance of that here on this thread.

In time we will all be presented with the supernatural reality of this subject of clones. Peace!.

 

[savienu]

My Grandma and I were talking the other night about life issues such as abortion and then cloning. Anyway we were wondering if a clone would have a soul. You see it is our belief that a soul is given to a human the moment of conception. But what if it is a clone that is created via scientific means and not through God’s natural plan? Does it then not get a soul?

I don’t think there is an actual for sure answer out there but I am interested in hearing peoples opinions on the subject. It is a facinating thought.

Wow, I was just thinking about this the other day! It really is rather sad that humans have done so many ridiculous things that this has to even be a question, though, huh?

 

[Sir_Knight]

Sir Knight, I am going to have to cease reponding to you on this thread. It is taking on a kind of prosecutorial tone and it only ratchets up ill will.

For your sake and my sake it is better. Perhaps on another thread on a different topic we may have a “meeting of the minds.” No chance of that here on this thread.

In time we will all be presented with the supernatural reality of this subject of clones. Peace!.

You accuse me of misrepresentation and not being “very noble” and my comments to you are “taking on a kind of prosecutorial tone”. Okay, As you wish. I will not be returning to this thread. Peace to you as well.

 

[betra2000]

Because someone has the right understanding that a clone does have a soul does not make them in favor of cloning.

Just a simple question. Just wanted a better understanding of all of it.

Thank you