Would a messiah be a necessary and inevitable product of an ultimate good?

[Thomas_Jennings]

Being that God is all goodness, was Himself made man something a perfect good would have to do from being all good? If so, why? I know that Jesus was responsible for the forgiveness of sins but that subject is such a tricky one even the greatest of theologians quarrel over it…why an all loving being should demand ‘blood money’ is difficult for us, at this point, to understand…outside of paying our debt, what did the creation of a messiah do to improve the goodness of the world that could not have been achieved via another means? In other words, is a messiah an inevitable occurrence in a Universe governed by something All-Good?

 

[DavidFilmer]

You’re leaving free will out of your question.

Adam and Eve had free will. They chose to sin.

It is possible to not sin (not even venially). The Catholic Church recognizes something called “spiritual perfection,” which is the complete aversion to ALL sin (both mortal and venial). Sin is not inevitable, even with a fallen nature. Because sin is not inevitable, a messiah is not an objective necessity.

 

[alchemon]

Being that God is all goodness, was Himself made man something a perfect good would have to do from being all good? If so, why? I know that Jesus was responsible for the forgiveness of sins but that subject is such a tricky one even the greatest of theologians quarrel over it…why an all loving being should demand ‘blood money’ is difficult for us, at this point, to understand…outside of paying our debt, what did the creation of a messiah do to improve the goodness of the world that could not have been achieved via another means? In other words, is a messiah an inevitable occurrence in a Universe governed by something All-Good?

Goodness is a derivative of God, rather than the other way around - so it is somewhat improper to say “God is all goodness” and should be “all goodness is from God”. Goodness itself is literally “God’s Will” - which means, by definition, all that God does is goodness. What we may perceive as being goodness then can be incorrect if it is out of accord with God’s Will (even if it would appear to be “inherently good” in our reasoning).

Free will of course is the ability to choose God’s Will or not. This is perhaps our greatest gift in that we are similar to God since we are free from any prior cause - meaning that I alone am controlling my own fate and making my own choices. Man does not have the ability to impart this gift to his creations, since children are begotten rather than being created.

Thus, through man’s free choice(s) and resulting sins - which was made by him independently, we are in need of a messiah who can pay the ultimate atonement for our sins. As the other poster noted, since man is not/was not “required” to sin - a messiah is not an inherent necessity.

 

[Thomas_Jennings]

Goodness is a derivative of God, rather than the other way around - so it is somewhat improper to say “God is all goodness” and should be “all goodness is from God”. Goodness itself is literally “God’s Will” - which means, by definition, all that God does is goodness. What we may perceive as being goodness then can be incorrect if it is out of accord with God’s Will (even if it would appear to be “inherently good” in our reasoning).

Free will of course is the ability to choose God’s Will or not. This is perhaps our greatest gift in that we are similar to God since we are free from any prior cause - meaning that I alone am controlling my own fate and making my own choices. Man does not have the ability to impart this gift to his creations, since children are begotten rather than being created.

Thus, through man’s free choice(s) and resulting sins - which was made by him independently, we are in need of a messiah who can pay the ultimate atonement for our sins. As the other poster noted, since man is not/was not “required” to sin - a messiah is not an inherent necessity.

Something I’ve never understood is why a ‘blood sacrifice’ was needed to atone for sins. I’d have thought that sort of payment doesn’t show repentance and supports a sort of ‘payback’, eye for an eye form of justice which doesn’t seem the sort of thing Jesus’s teaching supported…even if He bravely sacrificed Himself to pay it, the whole method and idea of payment in that way seems similar to the sort of none spiritual, revenge filled laws of Norman times (blinding a man for shooting a deer and chopping off his hands…a deterrent, yes, but not a very meaningful lesson to that man’s soul). I’m sure I’m missing something important!

 

[fhansen]

Being that God is all goodness, was Himself made man something a perfect good would have to do from being all good? If so, why? I know that Jesus was responsible for the forgiveness of sins but that subject is such a tricky one even the greatest of theologians quarrel over it…why an all loving being should demand ‘blood money’ is difficult for us, at this point, to understand…outside of paying our debt, what did the creation of a messiah do to improve the goodness of the world that could not have been achieved via another means? In other words, is a messiah an inevitable occurrence in a Universe governed by something All-Good?

God deemed it wise to leave man in the hands of his own counsel, and to remain in the background in the meanwhile, allowing humans to work out their own affairs, ultimately, with the help of grace, to work out their own justice. How will we comport ourselves in a world effectively free of any real constraints? This is the world Adam “won” for us, so to speak, and our performance in it now will be the basis of our judgment.

When the time was ripe in human history, God entered it Himself, to demonstrate and bring light into the darkness, a light which would continue to shine and remain accessible to any and all who were attracted to it, who would allow themselves to be enlightened by it. Just as before, God deemed it wise not to violate mans will, not to force the light, His will, upon us, but rather to allow us to participate in our own justification by our response to it, to Him.