Would a Universal Indult Diffuse Much of the Contentiousness?

[GWS]

A couple of months ago, I experienced the beauty and reverence of the Tridentine liturgy for the first time (several low Masses and one solemn Mass on a Sunday). To say that I prefer the TLM to the NO would be an understatement.

In fact, I very nearly switched parishees to join the one church that is home to the “Latin Mass community” when I learned that the FSSP (which services the LM community) was expanding in this area.

Since I am not a member of the LM community, I am unfortunately not privy to the details of this expansion. However, if the FSSP’s expansion occurs within our city, to other Catholic parishes for example, what I suspect we would see is the TLM being offered in and around the existing slate of NO Masses at participating churches, as it is in the one church presently.

I have indicated to the rector of my church, as well as our Bishop, that I would wholeheartedly welcome the spread of the Tridentine liturgy in our city, particularily at my church. I attend Mass at the cathedral, so if it’s going to expand anywhere that would be as good a place as any IMO.

Anyway, would it diffuse much of the contentiousness? If it was offered in and around the NO Masses at parishes, as I outlined above, it might. This way no one would be forced to attend a particular liturgy and adherents to one or the other could “vote with their feet” to each one.

Personally, even if it meant abandoning my lay ministry as a lector at the NO Mass, I’d choose the TLM if it came to my church in a heartbeat.

 

[slewi]

Here is what then Cardinal Ratzinger, the Church’s Prefect of the Congregation for Doctrine & Faith, said about VII: “[The concept] that the liturgy is in fact something given and not a reality to be manipulated at will, has completely disappeared from the consciousness of Western Catholics. Yet Vatican I in 1870 defined the Pope to be, not an absolute monarch, but the guarantor of obedience to the revealed word. The legitimacy of his power was bound up above all with his transmitting the Faith. This fidelity to the deposit of the Faith and to its transmission concerns in a quite special way the liturgy. No authority can ‘fabricate’ a liturgy. The Pope himself is only the humble servant of its homogenous development, its integrity, and the permanence of its identity.” The Pope, as the guardian of the Deposit of Faith, has a duty to preserve the liturgy intact and pass it on essentially unmodified to the next generation. The very authors of Vatican II, on the other hand, openly acknowledged their desire not to pass on Tradition, but to make it.

BTW, I voted no. Modernism is hunkered down in our church, ready for a fight.

Steve

 

[Traditional_Ang]

SFH:

I think the best result would be to establish two distinct rites–the Tridentine rite and the Novus Ordo rite. We already have several Eastern Catholic rites in the Catholic Church.

With a separate Tridentine rite, bishops could be ordained and could establish churches to administer the pre-Vatican II rite.

Catholics would have the choice of which rite to belong to, but once they chose a particular rite, they would not be able to switch back.

There would still probably be tension over limited financial resources. Already, I’ve heard several Catholic priests who celebrate the Novus Ordo mass (and not very reverently I might add) in one of the churches I go to complain that too many Catholics are giving money to the Society of St. Peter’s church a couple of towns away and it’s hurting their finances and pet projects.

SFH:

Hi Holiness has been working on something pretty similar to that for the last 10 years, an ANGLICAN RITE within the Catholic Church. The idea is to get disaffected Anglicans to come to home, but I don’t see why Western Rite Catholics wouldn’t be welcome.

He’s also working on reforming the Liturgy so that it sheds the excesses that have occured since Vatican II. He announced that as a priority, and you can see it at the Masses he celebrates. If you want to know how His Holiness believes a Mass should be celebrated, watch his masses when they are broadcast on EWTN.

As you do, please understand that Ad Orientum in St. Peters is Facing the People, and that they used to call out, “Let us turn to face the Lord!” right before the Prayer of Consecration (or the Canon of the Mass} so that the people turned their backs to the Pope!

I think that a lot of the Discord will die down with 1) a Universal Indult, 2) Widespread use of the Latin Novus Ordo celebrated Ad Orientum (the Mass of Vatican II) and 3) more reverent Novus Ordo Masses in the Vernacular by the new crop of Priests.

Meanwhile, “The cat will mew, and the dogue will have its day.” and, There’s not much people in places such as the LA Archdiocese can do about it.

Pray for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI.

In Christ, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

palmas85:

Altar boys used to have little index cards that had the moves diagrammed onthem telling them where to go, when to go and what to do when they got there. It was always rumored that the Priests had them as well. The three prayer cards on the Altar were there only as an aid to the Priest should he forget any of the prayers proper wording.

It took a long time and a lot of practice to get the Mass done correctly. A lot of times people went where they weren’y supposed to, or stumbled on the words, but when done correctly, magnificent, simply magnificent.

Palmas:

I’m in an Anglican Parish that does a Solemn High Mass (American Missal - slightly altered) every Sunday, so what I attend is largely the TLM translated into 17th Century English.

Most of the members of the St. Lawrence Guild of Acolytes are men above the age of 30, and they train at least once or twice a week when not on duty. They are also required to memorize significant sections of the Liturgy, esp. the Low Mass where the Psalm is a dialogue between the Priest and the congregation led by the Acolyte.

The Priests have to remember almost all of the unchanging parts of the Mass, or they would stumble - The Cards on the Alter are “Cue Cards” and couldn’t be read from for more than a minute or two at a time. The Priests at St. Mary’s have practiced the movements so much that they are almost “muscle memory”, and they tell me that’s the way it’s supposed to be, with the Ceremonarius making sure that reminders are given when needed.

You’re right about what the experience when everything is done right. If you’re in the right frame of mind, it can be truly mystical.

I think that’s what the Mass is supposed to be for all of us, and why so many miss the TLM.

In Christ, Michael