Would Catholic Theology Allow for an Empty Hell?

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As a former universalist, I still find the idea of no hell, or at least an empty hell, very appealing. However, I would no consider myself a quite orthodox Catholic… yet I have a very hard time with the concept of eternal suffering. For example, could we pray for people in hell? Wouldn’t we feel unhappy in heaven knowing that others (perhaps loved ones) were suffering eternally? If we have the ability to save souls from eternal damnation, aren’t we at terrible fault for spending time doing anything that does not at least indirectly support that goal? Etc.

However, I recognize that this is just a leaning of mine, and my faith in it is not as strong as my faith in the Church. So, the question is, could Catholic theology support the idea that everyone (perhaps with a very long time in purgatory) winds up in heaven? I’ve heard it said, for example, that people may receive a last chance to repent at death, and that we can’t even be sure that Judas is in hell.

Thoughts?
 
As a former universalist, I still find the idea of no hell, or at least an empty hell, very appealing. However, I would no consider myself a quite orthodox Catholic… yet I have a very hard time with the concept of eternal suffering. For example, could we pray for people in hell? Wouldn’t we feel unhappy in heaven knowing that others (perhaps loved ones) were suffering eternally? If we have the ability to save souls from eternal damnation, aren’t we at terrible fault for spending time doing anything that does not at least indirectly support that goal? Etc.

However, I recognize that this is just a leaning of mine, and my faith in it is not as strong as my faith in the Church. So, the question is, could Catholic theology support the idea that everyone (perhaps with a very long time in purgatory) winds up in heaven? I’ve heard it said, for example, that people may receive a last chance to repent at death, and that we can’t even be sure that Judas is in hell.

Thoughts?
No, Hell is a real possibility for anyone! Eternal suffering is a result of unrepentant sins and free choice. Hell is definitely not empty.
 
I don’t think we can really know for sure. I suppose there is a very slight possibility, but is in unlikely.

Personally, I do believe that since most people these days are ignorant of their sin, but not willingly (due to culture and such), most people go to Heaven.

It is the only belief of mine that really helps me get by in life.
 
No, Hell is a real possibility for anyone! Eternal suffering is a result of unrepentant sins and free choice. Hell is definitely not empty.
How can we know? If we can never tell whether any individual is going to heaven or hell, how can we know that in general, some people do go to hell?
 
+Jesus teaching in Sacred :bible1: Scripture involving the absolute reality of the existence of hell . . .

**. . . :coffeeread: . . .
The Holy :bible1: Bible
Luke 16:20-31

20 And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores, 21 Desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table, and no one did give him; moreover the dogs came, and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels :angel1: into Abraham’s bosom.

And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell. 23 And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom: 24 And he cried, and said: *Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame. *

25 And Abraham said to him: *Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazareth evil things, but now he is comforted; and thou art tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you, cannot, nor from thence come hither. *

27 And he said: *Then, father, I beseech thee, that thou wouldst send him to my father’s house, for I have five brethren, 28 That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments. *

29 And Abraham said to him: *They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. *30

But he said: *No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance. *

31 And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.​
**
. . . all for Jesus+​
 
+*More Sacred :bible1: Scripture dealing with the reality of hell . . . and this is just **New Testament **Scripture . . . *

1 Matthew 5:22
But I say to you, that whosoever is angry with his brother, shall be in danger of the judgment. And whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council. And whosoever shall say, Thou Fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

2 Matthew 5:29
And if thy right eye scandalize thee, pluck it out and cast it from thee. For it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than that thy whole body be cast into hell.

3 Matthew 5:30
And if thy right hand scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than that thy whole body be cast into hell.

4 Matthew 10:28
And fear ye not them that kill the body, and are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in hell.

5 Matthew 11:23
And thou Capharnaum, shalt thou be exalted up to heaven? thou shalt go down even unto hell. For if in Sodom had been wrought the miracles that have been wrought in thee, perhaps it had remained unto this day.

6 Matthew 16:18
And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

7 Matthew 18:9
And if thy eye scandalize thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee. It is better for thee having one eye to enter into life, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

8 Matthew 23:15
Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you go round about the sea and the land to make one proselyte; and when he is made, you make him the child of hell twofold more than yourselves.

9 Matthew 23:33
You serpents, generation of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of hell?

10 Mark 9:42
And if thy hand scandalize thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life, maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into unquenchable fire:

11 Mark 9:44
And if thy foot scandalize thee, cut it off. It is better for thee to enter lame into life everlasting, than having two feet, to be cast into the hell of unquenchable fire:

12 Mark 9:46
And if thy eye scandalize thee, pluck it out. It is better for thee with one eye to enter into the kingdom of God, than having two eyes to be cast into the hell of fire:

13 Luke 10:15
And thou, Capharnaum, which art exalted unto heaven, thou shalt be thrust down to hell.

14 Luke 12:5
But I will shew you whom you shall fear: fear ye him, who after he hath killed, hath power to cast into hell. Yea, I say to you, fear him.

15 Luke 16:22
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell.

16 Acts Of Apostles 2:24
Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the sorrows of hell, as it was impossible that he should be holden by it.

17 Acts Of Apostles 2:27
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, nor suffer thy Holy One to see corruption.

18 Acts Of Apostles 2:31
Foreseeing this, he spoke of the resurrection of Christ. For neither was he left in hell, neither did his flesh see corruption.

19 James 3:6
And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is placed among our members, which defileth the whole body, and inflameth the wheel of our nativity, being set on fire by hell.

20 2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but delivered them, drawn down by infernal ropes to the lower hell, unto torments, to be reserved unto judgment:

21 Apocalypse 1:18
And alive, and was dead, and behold I am living for ever and ever, and have the keys of death and of hell.

22 Apocalypse 6:8
And behold a pale horse, and he that sat upon him, his name was Death, and hell followed him. And power was given to him over the four parts of the earth, to kill with sword, with famine, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

23 Apocalypse 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and hell gave up their dead that were in them; and they were judged every one according to their works.
**
24 Apocalypse 20:14**
And hell and death were cast into the pool of fire. This is the second death.
. . . all for Jesus+​
 
How can we know? If we can never tell whether any individual is going to heaven or hell, how can we know that in general, some people do go to hell?
We can never know if a person is going to Hell. To claim to do so is to commit the very grave sin of judging the state of a person’s soul. The Church has determined that certian people are in Heaven (saints), but has never and will never declare that a person is in Hell.

Hell is an absolute possibility and many have stated that more people are in Hell than Heaven. An “empty Hell” is antithetical to authentic Catholic teaching.
 
Hell is an absolute possibility and many have stated that more people are in Hell than Heaven. An “empty Hell” is antithetical to authentic Catholic teaching.
Premise 1: Hell is an absolute possibility.
This is a truth. Hell definitely exists.

Premise 2: Many have stated that more people are in Hell than Heaven.
Yes, they have, but is this official Church teaching? Is there not a chance of fallibility? Church teaching merely states that when one dies in a state of mortal sin they go to Hell. We do not know if most people have mortally sinned, especially in this culture, as so few are truly aware of the gravity of their sins.

Premise 3: An “empty Hell” is antithetical to authentic Catholic teaching.
This is true in that it is most probable that there is one or more souls in Hell. However, a “mostly empty Hell” is not antithetical to authentic Catholic teaching.

I, for one, am very hopeful for a “mostly empty Hell”. The thought of the majority of mankind suffering for all eternity would make Heaven seem sad to me.
 
Well, some prominent Catholic theologians like Hans Urs Von Balthasar have allowed or argued for the possibility (a minority view) for a position approaching something close. In the article The Population of Hell in the late Father Neuhaus’s “First Things”, Avery Cardinal Dulles argues:

"The most sophisticated theological argument against the conviction that some human beings in fact go to hell has been proposed by Hans Urs von Balthasar in his book Dare We Hope “That All Men Be Saved?” He rejects the ideas that hell will be emptied at the end of time and that the damned souls and demons will be reconciled with God. He also avoids asserting as a fact that everyone will be saved. But he does say that we have a right and even a duty to hope for the salvation of all, because it is not impossible that even the worst sinners may be moved by God’s grace to repent before they die. He concedes, however, that the opposite is also possible. Since we are able to resist the grace of God, none of us is safe. We must therefore leave the question speculatively open, thinking primarily of the danger in which we ourselves stand.

At one point in his book Balthasar incorporates a long quotation from Edith Stein, now Saint Teresa Benedicta of the Cross, who defends a position very like Balthasar’s. Since God’s all-merciful love, she says, descends upon everyone, it is probable that this love produces transforming effects in their lives. To the extent that people open themselves to that love, they enter into the realm of redemption. On this ground Stein finds it possible to hope that God’s omnipotent love finds ways of, so to speak, outwitting human resistance. Balthasar says that he agrees with Stein.

It is unfair and incorrect to accuse either Balthasar or Neuhaus of teaching that no one goes to hell. They grant that it is probable that some or even many do go there, but they assert, on the ground that God is capable of bringing any sinner to repentance, that we have a right to hope and pray that all will be saved. The fact that something is highly improbable need not prevent us from hoping and praying that it will happen. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, “In hope, the Church prays for ‘all men to be saved’ (1 Timothy 2:4)” (CCC §1821). At another point the Catechism declares: “The Church prays that no one should be lost” (CCC §1058).

The search for numbers in the demography of hell is futile. God in His wisdom has seen fit not to disclose any statistics. Several sayings of Jesus in the Gospels give the impression that the majority are lost. Paul, without denying the likelihood that some sinners will die without sufficient repentance, teaches that the grace of Christ is more powerful than sin: “Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more” (Romans 5:20). Passages such as these permit us to hope that very many, if not all, will be saved.

All told, it is good that God has left us without exact information. If we knew that virtually everybody would be damned, we would be tempted to despair. If we knew that all, or nearly all, are saved, we might become presumptuous. If we knew that some fixed percent, say fifty, would be saved, we would be caught in an unholy rivalry. We would rejoice in every sign that others were among the lost, since our own chances of election would thereby be increased. Such a competitive spirit would hardly be compatible with the gospel."

O.K. these are just a Cardinal of the Church’s thoughts, not mine necessarily. Something to think about though. Read full article on the “Population of Hell” here: firstthings.com/article/2008/08/the-population-of-hell-23

And please I’m not publicly advocating the position in the article personally but am linking an interesting article for thinking. 🙂
 
hell cannot be empty

Satan and the fallen angels are there at the very least
 
How can we know? If we can never tell whether any individual is going to heaven or hell, how can we know that in general, some people do go to hell?
Oops, after reading my original post I realized that I left it hanging. I meant that Hell is at least populated with satan and his followers. We do not know the disposition of any human soul after death except Mary and the Saints being in Heaven.
 
Very many serious sins are committed throughout the world, by countless persons, and often without any sign of repentance prior to death. Now while some of these persons might have repented, and some might have had a reduction in culpability, it is unreasonable to conclude that they all died in a state of grace.

Furthermore, Sacred Scripture clearly teaches that Hell is not empty:

[Luke]
{10:15} And as for you, Capernaum, who would be exalted even up to Heaven: you shall be submerged into Hell.

Capernaum symbolizes the sins prevalent in that place. Jesus states unequivocally that these persons will be sent to Hell. He uses the figure of a populous and sinful town to show that the number sent to Hell is not small.

{12:5} But I will reveal to you whom you should fear. Fear him who, after he will have killed, has the power to cast into Hell. So I say to you: Fear him.

If Hell were empty, then there would be no reason to fear being cast into Hell by God.

{16:22} Then it happened that the beggar died, and he was carried by the Angels into the bosom of Abraham. Now the wealthy man also died, and he was entombed in Hell.

Again, Jesus speaks unequivocally of some persons being sent to Hell. And by this story Jesus warns other persons not to commit the same sins, and be sent to the same place. But if Hell were empty, such a warning would be needless.

[Matthew]
{5:20} For I say to you, that unless your justice has surpassed that of the scribes and the Pharisees you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus implies that many of the scribes and Pharisees have not entered the kingdom of heaven, and that therefore they were sent to Hell.

{7:13} Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate, and broad is the way, which leads to perdition, and many there are who enter through it.
{7:14} How narrow is the gate, and how straight is the way, which leads to life, and few there are who find it!

Jesus taught that the way to perdition (meaning Hell) is wide, and that many persons follow that path. If Hell were empty, then this teaching would be false.
 
Good posts above. I think the Catholic theology on this is well-disposed of.

My next question then, is, how to we address the problems resulting from hell?

Specifically:
-How can we be content in heaven knowing that others are in hell?
-Can we pray for people in hell? If it would be futile, doesn’t that imply a limit to God’s reach?
-If we have the ability to save souls from eternal damnation, aren’t we at terrible fault for spending time doing anything that does not at least indirectly support that goal?
 
As ? If we have the ability to save souls from eternal damnation, aren’t we at terrible fault for spending time doing anything that does not at least indirectly support that goal? Etc.

Thoughts?
we? we have no such power unless by “we” you mean "me ‘n’ Jesus Christ. Even Christ cannot save someone who wills eternal damnation for himself at the moment of death, although every drop of the infinite ocean of his Divine Mercy is available to that soul–but not through any agency of our own. We can pray and certainly should so our prayers are united with that treasury of merit won by the Savior, but “we” can’t do anything to get anyone out of hell, Even God can’t do that without violating his fundamental principal of free will. No we can’t pray for people in hell, but we don’t know who they are, we can pray for those who have died however, and have the obligation to do so.
 
Grace & Peace!

The hope that Hans Urs von Balthasar articulated is also shared by the Cappadocian Fathers (particularly St. Gregory of Nyssa).

But as Vladimir Lossky stated regarding universal restoration in one of his books (and I paraphrase)–if you teach the universal restoration, you’re a braying donkey. To deny it, you’re an obstinate ox. Yet both the donkey and the ox were present at Our Lord’s birth. The point being, such a thing can neither be affirmed as dogma nor denied as impossible–it is simply a mystery of God’s mercy.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!
 
we? we have no such power unless by “we” you mean "me ‘n’ Jesus Christ. Even Christ cannot save someone who wills eternal damnation for himself at the moment of death, although every drop of the infinite ocean of his Divine Mercy is available to that soul–but not through any agency of our own. We can pray and certainly should so our prayers are united with that treasury of merit won by the Savior, but “we” can’t do anything to get anyone out of hell, Even God can’t do that without violating his fundamental principal of free will. No we can’t pray for people in hell, but we don’t know who they are, we can pray for those who have died however, and have the obligation to do so.
I mean practically. If I devote my life to evangelizing, and am good at it, chances are–under conventional, lots-of-people-are-damned theology–that I will help “save” at least one person. If I avoid evangelizing completely, that person might well not be saved.

Perhaps this is an unsophisticated view of evangelization? I realize it also has a use for own soul, and it is following God’s commands which make the act good in and of itself, but we wouldn’t do it with much vigor if we knew it wouldn’t convince anyone, would we?
 
Good posts above. I think the Catholic theology on this is well-disposed of.

My next question then, is, how to we address the problems resulting from hell?

Specifically:
-How can we be content in heaven knowing that others are in hell?
-Can we pray for people in hell? If it would be futile, doesn’t that imply a limit to God’s reach?
-If we have the ability to save souls from eternal damnation, aren’t we at terrible fault for spending time doing anything that does not at least indirectly support that goal?
The fact is, the Church does pray for all the dead, since indeed the Church does not know who is bound for Hell. It is ultimately up to God. I personally can’t imagine a Satanist like Richard Ramirez bound for any other state except Hell, but only God knows his final destination.

Having said that, the existence of Hell is a dogma of the Catholic Church. Universal restoration was repudiated by the Fifth Ecumenical Council.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
+Our Lady of Fatima . . . the Blessed Virgin Mary . . . who appeared to the three children Lucy dos Santos, age 9, and her cousins, Francisco and Jacinta Marto, ages 8 and 6 respectively in 1916 . . . (and which apparitions are approved by the Catholic Church) . . . whom the visionary Lucy described as “She was a lady more brilliant than the sun.” . . . weighed in on this very real . . . and very very difficult subject in Fatima . . .
+**
**. . . :coffeeread: . . .
THE CHILDREN SEE HELL
During her appearance in July, our Lady, in answer to Lucy’s plea, promised that in October she would work a great public miracle . . . [the promised phenomenal Miracle of the Sun occured October 13th before 70,000 people] . . . so that all might believe and know who she was. Again the Mother of God told the children to sacrifice themselves for sinners and to say many times, especially when making a sacrifice, this prayer:
:gopray: O my Jesus, I offer this for love of Thee, for the conversion of poor sinners, and in reparation for all the sins committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary."
As she spoke these words, Our Lady stretched out her hands, and bright rays came forth which seemed to penetrate into the earth. All at once the ground vanished, and the children found themselves standing on the brink of a sea of fire. As they peered into this dreadful place, the terrified youngsters saw huge numbers of devils and damned souls. The devils resembled hideous black animals, each filling the air with despairing shrieks. The damned souls were in their human bodies and seemed to be brown in color, tumbling about constantly in the flames and screaming with terror. All were on fire within and without their bodies, and neither devils nor damned souls seemed able to control their movements. They were tossing about in the flames like fiery coals in a furnace. There was never an instant’s peace or freedom from pain.
Looking with compassion at the pale and trembling little ones, the vision spoke to them: “You have seen Hell, where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them God wishes to establish in the world the devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If people do what I tell you, many souls will be saved and there will be peace.”
Our Lady of Fatima’s Peace Plan from Heaven​

  • Abbey Press, St. Meinrad, Indiana
. . . all for Jesus+​
 
Premise 1: Hell is an absolute possibility.
This is a truth. Hell definitely exists.

Premise 2: Many have stated that more people are in Hell than Heaven.
Yes, they have, but is this official Church teaching? Is there not a chance of fallibility? Church teaching merely states that when one dies in a state of mortal sin they go to Hell. We do not know if most people have mortally sinned, especially in this culture, as so few are truly aware of the gravity of their sins.

Premise 3: An “empty Hell” is antithetical to authentic Catholic teaching.
This is true in that it is most probable that there is one or more souls in Hell. However, a “mostly empty Hell” is not antithetical to authentic Catholic teaching.

I, for one, am very hopeful for a “mostly empty Hell”. The thought of the majority of mankind suffering for all eternity would make Heaven seem sad to me.
I would like to thank you and express my appreciation for your exceptionally intellectually honest and astute response to my my rather short post. I do not dispute any of your assertions. In fact, I find your response to be a somewhat more charitable response to the original premise than mine. Forgive me for unintentionally implying the Church teaches that most go to Hell, that is clearly no a Church teaching.

I too hope for a mostly empty Hell.
 
I would like to thank you and express my appreciation for your exceptionally intellectually honest and astute response to my my rather short post. I do not dispute any of your assertions. In fact, I find your response to be a somewhat more charitable response to the original premise than mine. Forgive me for unintentionally implying the Church teaches that most go to Hell, that is clearly no a Church teaching.

I too hope for a mostly empty Hell.
Oh, I held nothing against you and still hold nothing against you. Unintentional implications are not a reason to hold anger against someone. And, yes, I think we all hope for a mostly empty Hell, if not entirely empty Hell. Any Christian that sincerely hopes people go to Hell is no Christian at all, we don’t want anyone in Hell, we try our best to keep people from there.

Trust me, it would bring me no greater joy than to know that the only residents of Hell are Satan and his minions, who I do fully believe deserve Hell with all my heart, as they honestly, intentionally want everyone to suffer with them. The thought that all of humanity will forever get to enjoy the perfection of heaven, that I would be able to encounter all my friends and family and embrace them, is a most wonderful thought.
 
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