Would fighting against gay bullying be promoting sin?

[followingtheway]

Would making a poster that tells people not to bully gays, or something in commemoration of a gay person who was bullied, or making something like a poster to fight against hatred of homosexuals be promoting sin?

 

[jmcrae]

Would making a poster that tells people not to bully gays, or something in commemoration of a gay person who was bullied, or making something like a poster to fight against hatred of homosexuals be promoting sin?

It is always wrong to bully, no matter who the target is.

Homosexual behaviour is wrong, but we don’t correct that wrong by adding another wrong (bullying) to it.

Furthermore, people who experience homosexual feelings are not to be discriminated against just because they have these feelings. We are to treat them exactly as we treat everyone else - which hopefully is the same way that we would like to be treated by other people.

Obviously, we can’t go as far as saying that they should marry someone of the same sex as themselves, but at the same time, they do have the right to go to school, go to work, live in safe housing, and other normal activities, and no one should make it impossible for them to do these things.

 

[Bl_Pope_Pius_IX]

Would making a poster that tells people not to bully gays, or something in commemoration of a gay person who was bullied, or making something like a poster to fight against hatred of homosexuals be promoting sin?

Though it wouldn’t be a sin, you should certainly do it with delicacy and prudence. Make sure to know what IS and is NOT “bullying”. Speaking out against the lifestyle is not bullying. Personally, I don’t think you should magnify hatred to gays. Just speak out against hatred and against bullying in general.

~ Pius :knight1:

 

[silicasandra]

It is always wrong to bully, no matter who the target is.

Homosexual behaviour is wrong, but we don’t correct that wrong by adding another wrong (bullying) to it.

Furthermore, people who experience homosexual feelings are not to be discriminated against just because they have these feelings. We are to treat them exactly as we treat everyone else - which hopefully is the same way that we would like to be treated by other people.

Obviously, we can’t go as far as saying that they should marry someone of the same sex as themselves, but at the same time, they do have the right to go to school, go to work, live in safe housing, and other normal activities, and no one should make it impossible for them to do these things.

There are people who justify bullying gay people on the grounds that homosexual behavior is immoral, but it’s the same as people justifying bullying disabled people, poor people, people of “other” ethnic groups, etc - they’re still attempting to justify that which is not justifiable.

And keep in mind that being gay (or being perceived as gay even if you’re not) DOES increase the risk you have of being bullied. When I was a teacher, I heard far more slurs against gay people being used than any other type of slur. When I asked about it, students said, “Well, it’s okay, because being gay is gross.” And we wonder why gay teens are at such high risk for depression, suicide, and homelessness?

 

[meltzerboy]

Would making a poster that tells people not to bully gays, or something in commemoration of a gay person who was bullied, or making something like a poster to fight against hatred of homosexuals be promoting sin?

I can think of very few, if any, instances in which fighting against hatred is regarded as promoting sin. As jmcrae points out, there is a distinction between fighting bullying against gay people (or anyone else) and promoting the gay lifestyle, such as gay marriage. This distinction is true in Catholicism as well as Torah Judaism. While I happen not to oppose gay marriage, I still have respect for those who do, based on their religious convictions, and would express opposition toward people who hate opponents of gay marriage and call them prejudiced, as much as I oppose people who hate gay people on the basis of their behavior. Being against someone’s behavior does not mean you have to hate those who engage in the behavior although keeping these two feelings separate is sometimes difficult for people to do. Many of us may strive for perfection, but the fact is we’re all human and bound to make mistakes in our feelings and behaviors toward others. The important thing is for us to attempt to be more charitable, even when we feel it is necessary to correct what we believe are other people’s immoral behaviors.

 

[mdgspencer]

In the abstract, this would be good. However to speak strongly against bullying of gay people is a device of those with the gay agenda. Those who know you are doing this would, most of them, feel confident that you belong to that group of people promoting the goodness of gay sex. Of course, maybe you would accept this. There are other questions I could raise about this–but still, such bullying is wrong (unless of course it is simply a matter of saying gay sex is sinful).

 

[sw85]

I suppose it depends on the nature of the “bullying.”

If the “bullying” involves physical violence, why limit to gays? Physical violence is a wrong when directed unprovoked against anyone.

If the “bullying” involves merely verbally admonishing gays for living in sin, then yes, discouraging that I think would constitute a sin in and of itself.

 

[Rock_Happy]

Though it wouldn’t be a sin, you should certainly do it with delicacy and prudence. Make sure to know what IS and is NOT “bullying”. Speaking out against the lifestyle is not bullying. Personally, I don’t think you should magnify hatred to gays. Just speak out against hatred and against bullying in general.

~ Pius :knight1:

The statement is misleading. It is important to speak truthfully. Homosexuality a person’s sexual orientation, just as heterosexuality is a person’s sexual orientation. Homosexuality of not a “lifestyle” or a “choice” any more than heterosexuality is. Proving that popes are sometimes incorrect, and should be listened with a very critical ear. In fairness, we should consider when the statement was made. We now know more about human sexuality.

Statements like this may encourage bullies. It is important to speak truthfully, and with delicacy and prudence.

 

[Benadam]

If the efforts develope results that become realized in the life experience of those who suffer SSA it would be healing for wounded relationships surrounding SSA. Your presence as a disinterested advocate would by contrast expose those advocating with alterior motives.

A difficult task that doesn’t easily produce tangible results. I think if it does there is alot of potential for it to become realized in the lives of homosexual people.

 

[meltzerboy]

The statement is misleading. It is important to speak truthfully. Homosexuality a person’s sexual orientation, just as heterosexuality is a person’s sexual orientation. Homosexuality of not a “lifestyle” or a “choice” any more than heterosexuality is. Proving that popes are sometimes incorrect, and should be listened with a very critical ear. In fairness, we should consider when the statement was made. We now know more about human sexuality.

Statements like this may encourage bullies. It is important to speak truthfully, and with delicacy and prudence.

I think the choice most people refer to is homosexual behavior rather than same-sex attraction, though, admittedly, some do think same-sex attraction is also a choice. On the other hand, if one has same-sex attraction, it is usually difficult to choose not to engage in homosexual behavior since this is one’s only sexual form of expression with another person. Nonetheless, religions such as Catholicism, Torah Judaism, and some branches of Protestantism require one to remain chaste and not engage in what is regarded as immoral, sinful behavior. At the same time, all of these religions teach people to disapprove of the behavior, while not hating the person who commits the behavior. As I stated in my previous post, this is sometimes challenging for people to do, and some end up disapproving of the behavior as well as hating the person who indulges in it and not treating them with any measure of charity.

 

[Rence]

Would making a poster that tells people not to bully gays, or something in commemoration of a gay person who was bullied, or making something like a poster to fight against hatred of homosexuals be promoting sin?

No, it’s not a sin to tell people not to bully gays, or anyone else. NO, it’s not a sin to post something in commemoration of a gay person who was bullied, because it’s wrong to bully anyone, even a gay person. No, it’s not a sin, or promoting sin, to post something against bullying gay people, or any people. A poster on this forum should not have to be told not to bully gays, or anyone else. One can regurgitate Church teachings without bullying…

 

[acarlson]

If the “bullying” involves merely verbally admonishing gays for living in sin, then yes, discouraging that I think would constitute a sin in and of itself.

Be careful.

There’s a clear and distinct line between speaking out against the immoral lifestyle and berating and verbally/mentally harassing the person for it. The old adage that “sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me” is false. Words can do just as much damage as - if not more than - physical harassment and bullying. I can testify to that fact: no one ever laid a finger on me as a child, but in college I was diagnosed with PTSD, which I developed PTSD from the hurtful things people said behind my back to others and the way they disrespected my person and personal belongings. If you don’t think the threat of violence is as powerful as violence itself, you should spend some serious time praying on it.

 

[Giuseppe_Gavino]

Would making a poster that tells people not to bully gays, or something in commemoration of a gay person who was bullied, or making something like a poster to fight against hatred of homosexuals be promoting sin?

It wouldn’t be a sin provided your poster conveys the message that this is about bullying and not about promoting homosexuality. In today’s society we have to be very careful because ‘tolerance’ is the new buzz word being used to usher in the disease of ‘indifference’, especially towards sin.

I would talk to your priest and ask them for some insight on how to best approach this issue.

 

[Rock_Happy]

I think the choice most people refer to is homosexual behavior rather than same-sex attraction, though, admittedly, some do think same-sex attraction is also a choice. On the other hand, if one has same-sex attraction, it is usually difficult to choose not to engage in homosexual behavior since this is one’s only sexual form of expression with another person. Nonetheless, religions such as Catholicism, Torah Judaism, and some branches of Protestantism require one to remain chaste and not engage in what is regarded as immoral, sinful behavior. At the same time, all of these religions teach people to disapprove of the behavior, while not hating the person who commits the behavior. As I stated in my previous post, this is sometimes challenging for people to do, and some end up disapproving of the behavior as well as hating the person who indulges in it and not treating them with any measure of charity.

Yes, of course, I would agree with you. And, the religious traditions which do not have a rational understanding of sexuality will be changing their teachings, if they hope to survive. It won’t be long before their point of view is a bit like opposing the theory of a heliocentric planetary rotation, or opposing evolution and natural selection theories, unless the momentum of science radically changes course in the near future, which has happened on rare occasions. I doubt that there is an Einstein lurking out there in the area of psychology and sexuality, but there could be.

But if we are talking about homosexuality, per se, then there is no excuse for bullying or condemnation. If we are talking about sexual behavior, then it is no different than any other sinner. We are all imperfect.

 

[Bl_Pope_Pius_IX]

Statements like this may encourage bullies. It is important to speak truthfully, and with delicacy and prudence.

Not quite sure how it would encourage bullies, can you describe how it would? I advised that he should speak out against hatred and bullying. So naturally, I am a bit confused.

~ Pius :knight1:

 

[sw85]

Be careful.

There’s a clear and distinct line between speaking out against the immoral lifestyle and berating and verbally/mentally harassing the person for it. The old adage that “sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me” is false. Words can do just as much damage as - if not more than - physical harassment and bullying. I can testify to that fact: no one ever laid a finger on me as a child, but in college I was diagnosed with PTSD, which I developed PTSD from the hurtful things people said behind my back to others and the way they disrespected my person and personal belongings. If you don’t think the threat of violence is as powerful as violence itself, you should spend some serious time praying on it.

My point in posting that was simply that some people insist that legitimately admonishing sinners constitutes bullying and not a work of charity. (The converse of this is that those who say we must “tolerate” homosexuality really mean we must elevate it to the status of a compelling organizational principle of our social life by attaching to it the impetus of “marriage”). It hardly needs to be said that when admonishing sinners crosses the line into actually causing mental illness, it ceases to be a legitimate work of charity.

 

[Allegra]

There are probably ways one might try to discourage bullying of gay people that would be sinful. For example, if in doing so, you made statements that suggested that homosexual sex acts are not immoral, that would be a sin. There are plenty of good things you could do to stop bullying though. What did you have in mind?

 

[m134e5]

My point in posting that was simply that some people insist that legitimately admonishing sinners constitutes bullying and not a work of charity. (The converse of this is that those who say we must “tolerate” homosexuality really mean we must elevate it to the status of a compelling organizational principle of our social life by attaching to it the impetus of “marriage”). It hardly needs to be said that when admonishing sinners crosses the line into actually causing mental illness, it ceases to be a legitimate work of charity.

You have to be careful when admonishing sinners. How you do it depends on your relationship with that person (are they a close friend, an acquaintance, or just someone who happens to read what you write about the subject), and how willing they are to listen to an alternative point of view.

If you do not have enough credibility with them, they will simply close their minds to what you have to say when you start saying something is wrong that as far as they can see is the way they were made. They will dismiss you as “just another ignorant person” and they will close their minds even further to what you have to say. Dealing with the gay community can be difficult. Many people struggling with this issue have extremely deep emotional wounds that really start to hurt when people start scratching at them. If a person is going to do that, they had better be close enough to that person for them to understand that they only mean the best. They better be trustworthy enough for that person to know that even though a bunch of painful emotional wounds are being ripped open again, that God’s peace is being offered to them. They had also better be mature, perceptive, and compassionate enough to address the person who is now experiencing the pain more severely.

 

[EasterJoy]

Of course it is not a sin to fight against all hatred aimed at gays! Rather, it is a sin to stand by and do nothing when someone else is made into the object of hatred.

From a practical standpoint, how are our brothers and sisters who have SSA supposed to accept the truth of the faith when those who hold it are complicit in acts of hatred by their silence? How are they supposed to avoid near occasions of sin when those who pretend virtue do not welcome them and protect them against attacks? To whom shall they go for comfort, if those who preach purity stand by and watch them be vilified? If they cannot go to those who practice purity, what answer will the pure give at the Last Judgement, when it is asked to whom it was expected that these least ones would go? For “I was… stranger and you gave me no welcome.” (Matt. 25:43) In Matthew’s account of the Last Judgement, where does the Lord condemn those who dared to stop acts of hatred against other sinners? He doesn’t. That law is nowhere in the Good News. God has no such law.

“Let those of you without sin cast the first stone”…and then let us see who is left to attack them. Remember that the Lord told the woman caught in adultery “neither do I condemn you” before he told her “go, and sin no more.” He protected her from her enemies first, on the grounds that none of her accusers were blameless, and then he counselled her about her sin. Notice that he did not take care that everyone heard him tell her that she ought not sin. Rather he speaks of the sins of adultery and lust at other times, and that suffices to make his teachings clear. Go to the account in John 8, and note that Holy Scriptures do not say that the woman turned from her sin thereafter, either. We are never told that. We must not need to know it in order to do what we are commanded to do.

This was the model Our Lord gave us to follow. We should not be afraid to follow it.

 

[michelleds]

Homosexuality of not a “lifestyle” or a “choice” any more than heterosexuality is. Proving that popes are sometimes incorrect, and should be listened with a very critical ear. In fairness, we should consider when the statement was made. We now know more about human sexuality.

And, the religious traditions which do not have a rational understanding of sexuality will be changing their teachings, if they hope to survive.

I apologize to the OP for this slight de-railing of your thread, but I can’t sit silently and let Rock Happy make yet MORE anti-Catholic, anti-Biblical statements. Seriously, RH, don’t you have anything better to do than come onto a Catholic website and bash the Pope?

Catholics adhering to the traditions and teachings of the Catholic Church are not lacking in rationality as you are so fond of trying to slip into your posts. knowing more about human sexuality does not make homosexual actions any less of a sin. you are clearly an adherent to the liberal theology school where “bible scholars” claim to know more about the scriptures than anyone previously because they can shine a 21st century light on the text. That’s just not how the natural law works.

we could start a movement to stop using our left arms. it’d just be one or two outcasts at first, but with a strong enough message, we could get more ppl to stop. maybe we could try damaging some people’s left arms, to get them moving in the right direction. we’d need to be very vocal after awhile. eventually it would be hip and cool and exciting to be a Right-Arm-Only (RAO) advocate. stop the ROA discrimination!

But regardless of how many ppl you got to join the ROA movement–it would never change the natural law of appendages.