Would I be sinning by being ordained SSPX

[godisgood77]

Easy for you to say. Can you point out where my thinking is off?

Sure… in the case of the SSPX, there is nothing even close to a parent instructing a child to engage in objectively immoral behavior. Sending an underage kid off to engage in sex acts outside of marriage is in no way relevant to the Church exercising its teaching authority. If instead, you have a scenario where a father taught his son to ride a rode bicycle and and then one day after years of study taught him to ride a motorcycle or something to that effect, I could see the parallel.

I disagree. I think whether or not the SSPX is right in doing what they’re doing is at the heart of the OP question.

I think St JPII answered the right or wrong question about the SSPX when he declared that they had excommunicated themselves.

 

[commenter]

They’re following Church teaching, the Old catholics are making it up as they go along.

Old Catholics would say they are faithful to the preconcilliar teaching. This argument was more credible earlier on the path. When they were only 50, they weren’t ordaining women, etc

 

[godisgood77]

Old Catholics would say they are faithful to the preconcilliar teaching. This argument was more credible earlier on the path. When they were only 50, they weren’t ordaining women, etc

Fully agree… the longer a runaway sect (like the Old Catholics or the SSPX) is separated from the hierarchical structure of the Church, the more likely that differences will creep in.

 

[TheMortenBay]

the longer a runaway sect (like the Old Catholics or the SSPX) is separated from the hierarchical structure of the Church, the more likely that differences will creep in.

Sorry, but there’s no way you’ll get me to see the SSPX as a runaway sect. And I pray for day the SSPX will ordain women and the Church will condemn them. But as things are looking now it seems more like the opposite will be the case. I pray it never comes to that.

If instead, you have a scenario where a father taught his son to ride a rode bicycle and and then one day after years of study taught him to ride a motorcycle or something to that effect, I could see the parallel.

Let’s say instead the father has taught them to ride a bicycle, then years later he says: “Why are you riding your bicycle in that old fashioned way? Stop that immediately. You’re breaking the bike!”
This way it’s not about a sin, though I think my first example works, because it shows it’s a question of morals.

I think St JPII answered the right or wrong question about the SSPX when he declared that they had excommunicated themselves

It’s funny how people always quote this as the definitive point where the SSPX was proven wrong, but the removal of said excommunications by Pope Benedict never seems to sway anyone towards the contrary…

 

[godisgood77]

It’s funny how people always quote this as the definitive point where the SSPX was proven wrong, but the removal of said excommunications by Pope Benedict never seems to sway anyone towards the contrary…

Excommunication is the most extreme and serious censure the Church has… not a funny thing in my eyes

People discount the Benedict’s lifting of the excommunications because that merciful act came with a hope and condition… the requirements of the SSPX remain the same … the SSPX need to take steps toward unity. Benedict always stressed that the Lefebvrite bishops remain suspended until they accept the work of Vatican II, the validity of the Mass and other things that have happened since… Francis has held that line.

 

[TheMortenBay]

Lefebvrite

These are not nice words you have for your “separated” brethren… Did Pope Francis teach you those?

Excommunication is the most extreme and serious censure the Church has… not a funny thing in my eyes

No, I agree. Poor choice of words on my part.
I do always argue, however that
1: the things that got Abp. Lefebvre suspended a divinis wouldn’t have gotten anyone suspended today.
2: the step to consecrate bishops probably wouldn’t have been necessary today.
I think if everyone just took a closer look they’d see that all that’s keeping the SSPX from being regularised is holding the SSPX to a standard no one else is being held to in the Church…

 

[Fauken]

And I pray for day the SSPX will ordain women and the Church will condemn them.

Oh boy, did I have a double take at that sentence!

 

[TheMortenBay]

Oh boy, did I have a double take at that sentence!

But I hope you take my meaning.

 

[jesusmademe]

Where do I read about this?

 

[TheMortenBay]

To answer the OP, Bishop Fellay has said that the Pope has allowed him to ordain priests at his discretion.
The practical question then becomes, does this permission (and the other allowances granted to the Society) mean that the suspension a divinis is de facto no longer applicable. I believe it does (supposing that the suspension was ever valid), because why would you allow priests to be ordained only to make it a sin for them to say Mass?

 

[whatistrue]

holding the SSPX to a standard no one else is being held to in the Church

Huh? Isn’t the issue that they reject VII (or continually “question” or “request clarification” on specific items that have been explained ad nauseum already) and call the OF “evil” and “invalid”? Isn’t everyone in the Church required to accept what SSPX is rejecting?

 

[TheMortenBay]

Maybe to an extent, but I’m willing to bet that the FSSP are not forced to recite the 1998 admission of faith nor are they questioned about their allegiance to a council which promulgated no new dogma or doctrine requiring assent of the faith.
The SSPX don’t reject Vatican II as a council of the Church, they just object to certain misinterpretations of the council being forced down their and the faithful’s throats.

 

[godisgood77]

Where do I read about this?

http://m.ncregister.com/daily-news/pope-francis-validates-sspx-confessions-for-year-of-mercy

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Question… why would you want to join an organization that is not in full communion with the Catholic Church?

For starters, some people are raised in it and find it very natural to be ordained into the church their parents, friends, priestly mentors etc attend.

I think sin really depends on the situation and the person’s motivation for choosing SSPX. If he was doing it because he was rabidly opposed to the Pope, that’s different from doing it because he grew up in, or came to Catholicism through, the SSPX. One might even seek ordination with the thought or hope or goal that the SSPX is or will be in a completely regular status with Rome. I believe this is a matter of conscience for the individual candidate seeking ordination.

And one thing is for sure - no seminarian is picking the SSPX so they can have more laxity in their personal life.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

And I pray for day the SSPX will ordain women and the Church will condemn them.

Optimist!

 

[Joe_5859]

The Church has allowed the SSPX to ordain priests at their own discretion.

I’d like to see a source for this. Not because I doubt you but for my own future reference.

 

[TheMortenBay]

I’d like to see a source for this. Not because I doubt you but for my own future reference.

It’s Bishop Fellay who said it. I seem to recall the SSPX article on Wikipedia quoted him on that, so the source might be on there.
I haven’t seen it backed up anywhere else, but I think he said it during the latest talks with the Vatican, and he’s a staunch promoter of regularisation, so I don’t see a reason for him to lie in that context.

 

[Joe_5859]

So it’s more of a private communication between the Vatican and Fellay rather than any sort of public statement? I guess that makes sense. It does seem unlikely that he would lie about such a thing.

 

[TheMortenBay]

I think sin really depends on the situation and the person’s motivation for choosing SSPX. If he was doing it because he was rabidly opposed to the Pope, that’s different from doing it because he grew up in, or came to Catholicism through, the SSPX. One might even seek ordination with the thought or hope or goal that the SSPX is or will be in a completely regular status with Rome. I believe this is a matter of conscience for the individual candidate seeking ordination.

I very much agree with everything here. I think this question will also be answered differently depending on where it’s asked.
I know many traditional Catholics (online or offline) who wouldn’t bat an eye if one was ordained with the SSPX, and I’ve also talked with priests outside the SSPX who approve.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Maybe to an extent, but I’m willing to bet that the FSSP are not forced to recite the 1998 admission of faith nor are they questioned about their allegiance to a council which promulgated no new dogma or doctrine requiring assent of the faith.

I would be very interested to see what the FSSP is allowed to say and profess, and what they are not allowed to say or profess. What does the FSSP say about the Novus Ordo and various (allegedly) problematical portions of Vatican II?

The SSPX don’t reject Vatican II as a council of the Church, they just object to certain misinterpretations of the council being forced down their and the faithful’s throats.

I hope that’s all there is to it. I don’t think anyone in the SSPX says that V2 was not a valid and legitimate council of the Church, nor that it should be rejected in toto. There are traditionalist Catholics who do say things like this.

The Church has allowed the SSPX to ordain priests at their own discretion.

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